High beam 55W HID conversion feasible ?

[jkirkebo]

I will be driving my Leaf a lot on dark country roads with little traffic. The Leaf low beams are fine, but the high beams suck compared to the bi-xenon lights in our VW Touran.

The Leaf seems to use H9 lamps, and there are a lot of 55W H9 conversion kits for sale cheap. They are plug and play, and available for different color temperatures (I'd want 4000-5000K).

Does anybod see any potential problems in swapping the 65W halogens for 55W HIDs ? Temperature should not be a problem as that is a function of wattage ?

 

[OrientExpress]

Yes, it is completely possible to do with any of the HID conversion kits out there, but use the 35W kits for a completely safe PnP installation. The high beam lighting circuit is not designed to service a 55w ballast without a separate relay operated wiring harness. A 35w kit will run safely with the existing wiring circuit.

There is no such thing as a 55w PnP HID kit simply because those kits require the installation of a separate wiring harness to operate safely.

With that said, I don't recommend using HIDs in the reflector high beam light assemblies like are on the Leaf.

The primary reason is that the reflector design is not optimum for an HID bulb because of the focal point of the reflector vs. the light capsule in an HID bulb makes for a bright unfocused glaring light (the capsule is to far forward to focus properly), and that there is no "top hat" shield on top of the bulb assembly (the top hat is what prevents forward unfocused light, i.e. glare).

What this means is that the light that come out of the HID light will be unfocused, will have extreme glare to on coming traffic and will not project the distance that you desire with a high-beam.

There are no reflector based OEM HID lights on the market today in any car, they are all projector designs. If you want the same sort of lighting as on your Touran, then consider a custom projector light retrofit for the leaf's high beams. There are companies out there which will do this for you for about $1K.

And by no means ever use anything more than a 35w HID conversion on any car. Higher wattage simply means higher headaches and no any more useful lighting.

 

[jkirkebo]

Yes, it is completely possible to do with any of the HID conversion kits out there, but use the 35W kits for a completely safe PnP installation. The high beam lighting circuit is not designed to service a 55w ballast without a separate relay operated wiring harness. A 35w kit will run safely with the existing wiring circuit.

Why would a 55W not run safely with the existing wiring curcuit ? It is still lower than the original 65W halogen bulb.

The primary reason is that the reflector design is not optimum for an HID bulb because of the focal point of the reflector vs. the light capsule in an HID bulb makes for a bright unfocused glaring light (the capsule is to far forward to focus properly), and that there is no "top hat" shield on top of the bulb assembly (the top hat is what prevents forward unfocused light, i.e. glare).

What this means is that the light that come out of the HID light will be unfocused, will have extreme glare to on coming traffic and will not project the distance that you desire with a high-beam.

Glare is a non-issue for the high beams as they should not be used at all when there are oncoming traffic.

About distance, do you mean that a 35W or 55W H9 HID bulb in the Leafs high beam would project a shorter distance than the original 65W H9 halogen bulb ?

 

[OrientExpress]

I'm sorry, I was thinking of a low-beam halogen bulb.

But regardless, HID retrofits still produce unfocused high-glare light that does not give you what you really want, which is a longer distance focused light pattern. That is simply a function of the reflector focal point vs the HID bulb.

The HID kits are very inexpensive these days, get one and try it to see if you are happy with it. If not take it out and sell the kit on Craigslist. There is always someone that wants these things.

 

[JimSouCal]

Again was on a local dark winding road, Topanga Canyon, last night. Agreed the high beams are very weak--borderline safety issue on rural and dark areas--deer, rocks, and the like. I tried changing out the high beam OEM globes to an "upgraded" brand, and there is no difference.

If you proceed and have hands on experience in the HID retrofit, please share.

 

[Nubo]

If you want a safe and *effective* solution for better seeing, drop this fellow a line:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That being said, h9 bulbs are pretty powerful. If you're not getting much out of them in the LEAF one solution could be replacing the wiring and perhaps the relay that feeds the lamps, with heavier gauge dedicated circuit. The lower resistance could result in increased voltage to the bulb. And incandescent bulb output is quite sensitive to voltage.

 

[Nubo]

It just occurred to me -- is it possible that the actual voltage of the LEAF's nominal "12V" system is perhaps lower than an ICE vehicle, with its perpetual alternator-input? An ICE vehicle's system is really around 14-15V, correct? If the LEAF is significantly closer to 12V, then the graph above could easily explain why what are normally very effective high-beam bulbs, would be putting out considerably less light than usual.

In the past I've read about some type of DC-DC transformer that people use to feed lamps a higher voltage, for what it's worth.

 

[vegastar]

I measured my batterey voltage, and when the car is turned on the battery is initially charged with CC (around 10 Amps, measured with a clamp meter) until it reaches 14,5V. After that the current starts droping and also the voltage until it settles at around 13.0 Volts with a charging current of around 1 Amp. This happens in less than a minute. My ICE cars have around 13,5-14,0 V with the engine working, so this lower voltage may in fact give less light output.

 

[kmp647]

Turn on the car and check the 12v battery voltage

Compare to your ice when it's a idle

 

[TomT]

The problem is that the reflector design is basically crap. HIDs will certainly improve the light output but not as much as they would on a vehicle with decent reflector design and manufacture...

 

[keydiver]

I don't think you are going to any difference in light output between 13.0 and 13.5 volts DC. Now, if it were in fact only 12.0 VDC, that might be slightly noticable, but half a volt is nothing.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't think you are going to any difference in light output between 13.0 and 13.5 volts DC. Now, if it were in fact only 12.0 VDC, that might be slightly noticable, but half a volt is nothing.

Let's stop the 12 volt rumor right here. A fully charged "12 volt" battery is actually about 12.7 volts, and of course, it takes more than 12.7 volts to keep it charged. So, nothing is operating on "12 volts".

The nominal voltage with the DC-DC converter charging the system is something above 13 volts, probably 14 - 14.5v. Just like virtually every car in the world.

The same is true of aircraft 28 volt systems... which use 24 volt batteries. Like the common usage of "110 volts" when we mean 120v, a typical automotive system is actually a 14 volt system with a 12v battery.

Do you see the lights going dimmer and brighter with the charging cycles? Or, does the voltage remain constant, with consistent lighting?

 

[Nubo]

I don't think you are going to any difference in light output between 13.0 and 13.5 volts DC. Now, if it were in fact only 12.0 VDC, that might be slightly noticable, but half a volt is nothing.

That's not the case for incandescent bulbs. They are very dependent on voltage. See the chart I posted earlier in the thread. A 10% increase in voltage will yield about a 40% increase in light. The downside is that the bulb's longevity is inversely proportional to something like the 13th power! But if the bulb is running under the expected voltage then there is room to move to the right.

 

[Nubo]

Let's stop the 12 volt rumor right here. A fully charged "12 volt" battery is actually about 12.7 volts, and of course, it takes more than 12.7 volts to keep it charged. So, nothing is operating on "12 volts".

The nominal voltage with the DC-DC converter charging the system is something above 13 volts, probably 14 - 14.5v. Just like virtually every car in the world.

The same is true of aircraft 28 volt systems... which use 24 volt batteries. Like the common usage of "110 volts" when we mean 120v, a typical automotive system is actually a 14 volt system with a 12v battery.

Do you see the lights going dimmer and brighter with the charging cycles? Or, does the voltage remain constant, with consistent lighting?

Not trying to start any rumors or spread any misinformation. I was asking about the voltage being supplied to the LEAF's incan headlamps, since I don't have the vehicle. With an ICE car, one can often see a distinct difference in brightness between engine-off and engine running. Since from what I've read the LEAF is not always charging the service battery, I was curious as to how that might affect the lamps. LEDs are current-dependent so no problem there. But for the incan highbeams... seemed like a legitimate question.

 

[Herm]

How about a set of separate driving lights?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=driving+lights&x=0&y=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

//ecx

some expensive ones:

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-008390801-Micro-Xenon-Driving/dp/B000COD4SE/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1323936628&sr=1-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[keydiver]

That's not the case for incandescent bulbs. They are very dependent on voltage. See the chart I posted earlier in the thread. A 10% increase in voltage will yield about a 40% increase in light.

Yes, but in this case you are talking about <4% voltage drop, which is only ~10% less light output. I don't think I would notice only 10% less lumens.
I measured my battery: 12.45 volts after sitting all night, 14.3 volts when first started, but within 1 minute it settles down to 13.0 VDC, as someone else noted.

 

[danwat1234]

Bump. Anyone try a 55w aftermarket HID kit in their high beam headlight? I know they take a few seconds to get bright but after that their lumen output is amazing, so the question is how far does the light throw.

 

[TomT]

The reflector design is terrible so you actually won't see that much improvement...

Bump. Anyone try a 55w aftermarket HID kit in their high beam headlight? I know they take a few seconds to get bright but after that their lumen output is amazing, so the question is how far does the light throw.

 

[jkirkebo]

The reflector design is terrible so you actually won't see that much improvement...

Bump. Anyone try a 55w aftermarket HID kit in their high beam headlight? I know they take a few seconds to get bright but after that their lumen output is amazing, so the question is how far does the light throw.

I beg to differ. I have 55W xenon HIDs @ 4300K in my highbeams and the difference from the original 65W halogens is literally night and day. With the 55W xenons my throw is equal to my VW Touran with it's factory 35W xenons. The higher lumen output seems to compensate for the crappy reflector.

The only drawback is that it takes a few seconds (4-5 or so) to reach full output on a cold bulb. Reigniting a hot bulb reaches full brighness much faster.

 

[JimSouCal]

The reflector design is terrible so you actually won't see that much improvement...

Bump. Anyone try a 55w aftermarket HID kit in their high beam headlight? I know they take a few seconds to get bright but after that their lumen output is amazing, so the question is how far does the light throw.

I beg to differ. I have 55W xenon HIDs @ 4300K in my highbeams and the difference from the original 65W halogens is literally night and day. With the 55W xenons my throw is equal to my VW Touran with it's factory 35W xenons. The higher lumen output seems to compensate for the crappy reflector.

The only drawback is that it takes a few seconds (4-5 or so) to reach full output on a cold bulb. Reigniting a hot bulb reaches full brighness much faster.

Any chance you can share the particulars and vendor sourcing... ?