How entusiastic are you, now that some days have gone by ?

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evnow said:
EVDRIVER said:
If Aptera had produced a car it would be impossible for the owners not to talk about EVs.
Yes - but would they have bought it ? Wouldn't it reinforce the idea that EVs are a niche novelty ?


The Aptera was not for everyone but if priced right it would have taken off. I showed it to many people and about 75% of them put down a reservation, some over the age of 75 and people of all types. The car is fun and a great commuter car and would have pushed new designs and ways of thinking, plus it was so unique to drive! I predict that once costs come down that many will be many more small city EVs made that people will buy for commuting and fun and it will become very trendy. There will also be many small performance EVs for short fun trips in the city and an entire aftermarket and tuner business behind this. Easy parking, performance, fun, practical for city use, a great second car, etc. These will include three and four wheel models and if priced correctly could redefine personal transportation for many. Think Tango-like cars and other side-by-side designs at mass produced economies of scale. I see Toyota soon going in this direction and I bet Nissan as well.
 
LEAFfan said:
Jimmydreams said:
I have the stickers and don't even notice them any more...

Jimmy, could you please post a pic of your car with the zero emissions sticker? We were told that the sticker on the production car would be much smaller than the one they had on the pre-production ones. Is it much smaller? Thanks!
IMG_0617.jpg


The grey wording get's lost in the blue, and the blue E is about 7.5 inches tall.
 
EVDRIVER said:
If Aptera had produced a car it would be impossible for the owners not to talk about EVs. I really wish Nissan would have come out with a more modern design rather than using the tired body of other products they make. I don't get this need to make the car so conservative. European designs have always been ahead of the US.

+10
 
Essiemme said:
Now that we are anxioulsy waiting for our Leafs, here in Europe, there is a big expectation, for sure.

Since some of you guys have received yours some days ago, I was wondering how are you feeling about this, have your entusiasm levels gone down, I mean, have you already lost this feeling we're now feeling ?

Does the Leaf still keep you excited, like making you feel like going out to drive it agains, and again ?

...is that, I feel I cannot wait any longer...
:roll:

Still enthusiastic. Yep. 19 days and 794 miles (1,278 km). It's still amazing that I'm meeting my basic transportation needs using a car running "solely" on the energy stored in a chemical battery. That right there is very cool. And it drives like a regular car and is a very smooth ride. The seats are terrible - leather and motor driven are needed as an option - but otherwise a VERY nice car. Nice job to all the folks at Nissan from the designers to the assembly line to the QC folks. Not stopping at a gas station or dealing with loooooooong gas lines (like some of us grey-hairs will remember from the 70's) is also a big plus. Cost of fuel is also nice (15% of my 2003 Volvo xc90) but don't forget we will need to replace the battery someday and it will not be inexpensive I imagine. Also, as Americans, we are spoiled with the low cost of fuel due to low fuel taxes here in the U.S. Europeans pay about 2.2 times the price Americans pay per volume of fuel.

Then it hits me that my emissions footprint is smaller (of course not zero when you consider the primary energy source and subsequent conversion to electricity to charge the car but some of the pitch is how the U.S. rates the vehicle as well). Now I'm not getting all holy about all electric cars and bashing anyone driving an ICE 'cuz I've been doing that for 37 years and still own one that I will keep using. No, rather, I'm just lucky enough to have stable employment that allows me to take this financial leap and geek enough to want to make it happen.

The one thing that I'm discovering is the viability of this vehicle as a function of use.

Example one: 80%+ of my driving is on the freeway. That has a MAJOR (read that again as MAJOR) impact on range due to the fact that in San Diego you can't go much slower than 65-68 mph (105-109 kph) on the freeway without it being a MAJOR hassle during peak commute hours. There are a few exceptions to this. One exception is if you are lucky enough to work in San Diego's Sorrento Valley and are commuting north on I-805 at say, oh, ANY time in the morning and you are moving at the typical 3 mph crawl (5 kph) MAX, you will get GREAT mileage as you are traveling so slow. The other exception is any other traffic congested freeway during commute hours.

Charging to 80% nightly, driving 56 miles (90 km), and running the climate control on auto just about got me to walking last WED night. In this distance I went from 75 mi (121 km) of range pulling out of my garage in the morning to "---" (read that as less than 6 mi - 10 km - of range left) as I pulled into my driveway that night. 10 of the last 17 miles (16 of the last 27 km) home I shut off the heater (it was 57degF, 14degC outside) to ease the, "holy crap, that unplanned long lunch run may be coming home to roost" moment. Of course the deal here is I could have done the typical 5-10 mi (8-16 km) lunch run but this was unplanned and just happened due to freeway exits as I was letting a friend demo drive the car. This may be saying I'm a 100% charge guy with my usage if I want to reduce the always having to plan my next days range issues (which after another few weeks will be old). It's fun playing with it for a while to see what the capabilities really are but at some point I'd rather this be a regular thing and not have to think about next day every night I go to bed. I did ask Nissan for a 90% (91.7% for 11 bars out of 12 max) charge limit but who knows if that will happen. Seems it could easily be a software push since the display showing the 100% or 80% options has plenty-o-room to add a 90%er (hello Carlos... I love you and love the LEAF, you have incredible vision, this is the best car on the entire planet, etc, etc... hint, hint, beg, beg, plead, plead, plead).

Example two: Driving mostly NOT on the freeway. You get GREAT range and operating efficiency. With lower speeds you don't have the air resistant to overcome (energy requirements to move through the air go up as the square of the vehicle speed). Going from 62 to 68.2 mph (100-110 kph) may be only a 10% increase in speed but it takes 20% more energy from the battery to move you at 68.2 mph than it does at 62 mph. Coupled with this phenomenon is the fact that the faster you pull the juice out of the battery the less juice the battery can deliver for a given charge (yeah, bummer I know). As I stated above, it's a challenge to go slow on the freeway here in San Diego. Coming down I-805 in the morning at 65 mph, nearly EVERY vehicle is going faster than I am. Yesterday (SAT) I drove 11 mi (18 km) north on I-5 from Del Mar Heights road to Leucadia Blvd and a bit east to a store and back home. My range dropped only 7 mi (11 km) to travel the 11 mi (18 km) to get there. The freeway was at a crawl at 10-15 mph (16-24 kph) the ENTIRE freeway drive due to an accident that, of course, was at the Leucadia exit where I was getting off. However, on the way home at my standard 65-68 mph (105-109 kph) freeway driving speeds it burned up 21 mi (34 km) to travel the SAME 11 miles (18 km). The freeway is a KILLER on range if you go with traffic flow in the 65-68 mph (105-109 kph) speed.... and if you go slower, a LOT of your time is spent looking in your mirror at the car behind you that you are holding up.

In summary, I'm very happy with this car but I may be needing to:

1. always charge to 100% to meet my needs (unless Nissan sees it fit to revise the charge control software to include the 90% set-point I asked them for).
2. figure out some way to change out the seats (leather and motor operated though with airbags in the seat seams this is slowly fading as a practical reality).
3. upgrade the music system... mid range and bass need some help in my book but it's not as plain as say, a 2003 Lexus IS300 (ugh).

Malcolm :geek:
 
Thanks, Malcolm.

What an excelent explanation you did, and the idea to express your numbers in KMs was very useful for us, in this side of the atlantic!

Hopefully, my wife is going to be driving the Leaf all days, taking our children to school, which happens to be near my wife's work place. She's very gentle with the accelarator pedal, currently she drives a Nissan Patrol GR and I calculated a very good 9 litres/100 Kms (26 Miles per Gallon ????) fuel consuption with this machine (imagine how slow she drives on the speedway...).

Anyway, even if she was "racing" against the petrol heads in here, she would be fine since her comute is less than 50 Kms (31 Miles) per day.

There is the possibility for us all to go visit our parents, in the inner part of Portugal (Alentejo), maybe on a 3 months regularity. The total distance (one way) is about 120 Kms (74.4 Miles), on country roads where we usually don't cross over the 90Kms/h (56 Miles/h) road speed limit. We might be carrying some country stuff (fruits, cereals, food, etc) when we get back, though...
Even this hipotetic journey, I think we're gonna be able to reach there - having to recharge there, so we can get back, altough.

Oh well, I'll tell you the experience as soon as we get our hands on it, which is gonna occur, maybe, next month, if we're lucky.

Regards.
 
That was an interesting and excellent post, Malcolm. I think my attitudes and situation will match yours pretty closely, once I get my car. (In "4 to 7 months"!) :D

I was amused, and a little jealous, to hear you "complain" about having to drive faster than 65 MPH during "peak commute hours". 'Round these parts, peak commute means bumper to bumper, stop and go. It sounds like it's more of a mix of fast and slow, in your neck of the woods. (I have a 7 mile freeway commute. It takes about 20-30 minutes. Annoying, but it should be good for my range and battery health.)

I does occur to me that driving in the HOV lanes will hurt my range, as compared to slogging along with the rest of the regular folks. Kinda ironic, since getting access to those lanes is one of the things I'm most excited about. (I'm most excited about "cutting in line" at the metering lights, actually. Every on-ramp has those, now. So that part of the deal is still a good thing in all respects.)

[EDIT] I "upgraded" the seats in my current car. A MINI Cooper S. The factory seats had side airbags; the new seats do not. So, you just need to decide whether you are comfortable with going without...

Also in the MINI, I replaced the rear speakers with much better quality ones, and added dedicated amplification for them. Even though the head unit, and the speakers in the front doors are totally stock, it made a big difference. I look forward to seeing if similar improvements can be made to the Leaf's sound system, while still preserving the stock look and feel.
 
I'm surpsied why anyone with long hwy commutes would consider 80% charging. I wouldn't. Infact I'm wondering whether it is worth it even with my 11 mile city commute ;)
 
evnow said:
I'm surpsied why anyone with long hwy commutes would consider 80% charging. I wouldn't. Infact I'm wondering whether it is worth it even with my 11 mile city commute ;)
Exactly. I think this forum has somehow made 80% the standard charge.

I'm surprised anyone on a Lease has even tried it. :twisted:
 
Had mine for a couple of weeks. Nearly had a heart attack yesterday driving back from San Diego and when I realized my house was just outside the range... Fortunately I hit the downhill toward home right as the --- showed up. Will be better when those tier 3 stations show up.

Not one person has asked about the car outside of people I know. I think it is funny how many still think it a hybrid until I explain it to them. Even with the monster e on the car.

I live in a hilly area, so this really impacts the efficiency.

Wish the car had seat warmers- seems like that would overcome the heater issue.

A little frustrated at the iPhone app- could be so much more useful. You cannot even access basic carwings data on it as that is a flash app.

But this is hands down the happiest I have been with a car in years. Just a joy to drive. Love the feel of it. Puts a smile on my face every day. I am officially in love.
 
Kelangst said:
Not one person has asked about the car outside of people I know.
And I was so worried that the headlights might make the LEAF look really strange. I guess Nissan did a good job making the car look somewhat oridinary.
 
i think not having a very unusual looking car but with cutting edge technology can hurt and help.

most people dont realize i am electric until i drive past them in a parking lot or something and i have the eco package.

this will reduce brand recognition. i think the reason the Prius was very successful while other good hybrids failed is because, well lets face it. there is no mistaking a Prius for any other car (except maybe the updated version of the Honda Insight) and that helped it stand out.

the 2nd version of the Honda Civic hybrid was an excellent car. it attained the high 40's for mileage, etc. but it failed because it looked like a Civic.
 
GroundLoop said:
evnow said:
I'm surpsied why anyone with long hwy commutes would consider 80% charging. I wouldn't. Infact I'm wondering whether it is worth it even with my 11 mile city commute ;)
Exactly. I think this forum has somehow made 80% the standard charge.

I'm surprised anyone on a Lease has even tried it. :twisted:


And that's with no capacity loss over the years.
 
GroundLoop said:
evnow said:
I'm surpsied why anyone with long hwy commutes would consider 80% charging. I wouldn't. Infact I'm wondering whether it is worth it even with my 11 mile city commute ;)
Exactly. I think this forum has somehow made 80% the standard charge.
I'm surprised anyone on a Lease has even tried it. :twisted:

That's because we have been constantly told to charge to 80% for longer battery life. Has that idea been changed?
 
i am ignoring it and doing 100%. besides without carwings, i cant program the charge level anyway i dont think.

i also believe that Nissan would not allow us to abuse the battery pack and their 100% is probably only 95% or something anyway
 
Well, you guys let us know how that %100 charging works out for you in 18-24 months, because thats about the time the "forgotten" 36 will get their cars. Glad to hear we have REAL early adopters testing for us :)
 
mitch672 said:
Well, you guys let us know how that %100 charging works out for you in 18-24 months, because thats about the time the "forgotten" 36 will get their cars. Glad to hear we have REAL early adopters testing for us :)

We can watch my battery pack. My car will be driven 63+ miles/day 5 days a week on 100% charge and then 55+ miles/day the other 2 days of the week, again, on 100% charge. If there is any battery degradation, I'll likely see it early. I'll probably put in the neighborhood of 330+ cycles on it a year for my 3 year lease. :ugeek:
 
This is probably one of the nicest cars I have driven. It rides surprisingly well. It feels like a much bigger car. I think it's because it weighs about 3600 pounds. I really like how my iPhone hooks up automatically for both the phone and streaming music.

The newspaper did an article on me and my cars since it's the first one in Stockton, CA. All the people in my building have asked to see it and when the light bulb goes on they ask when can they get one. I have taken an number of people on test drives which has lowered my energy economy. (Got to let them feel the acceleration.)

Both of my sons really liked it after they drove it. It is such a different but familiar feel. Nissan really spent a lot of time making this a very drivable car. It has taken me a while to really trust it and I've ran the battery pretty close to empty. Drove in my driveway with --- on the display.

I still look forward to driving to work every day. I tell anyone who wants to listen because I want to see us get off foreign oil. That sells better than the environment around here. I envision the day where everyone drives electric cars and networks a self generation of power with their neighbors with solar and fuel cells that run off a variety of fuels like propane, gas, or methane, for those few times you don't have enough solar stored. I look forward to the day where each individual has the capability to be energy independent without spending a fortune.
 
The "Italian Job" left me stranded on the side of the road this morning with a transmission failure and a lengthy conversation with a tow truck driver. I am soooo ready for a simple electric car.
 
DeaneG said:
The "Italian Job" left me stranded on the side of the road this morning with a transmission failure and a lengthy conversation with a tow truck driver. I am soooo ready for a simple electric car.

Ouch, is the "Italian Job" a Mini or a Fiat or Alpha?
 
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