How is sound system quality in Leaf?

[LEAFer]

what is the largest rectangular box that can be placed in the back cargo area and have it flush with the hump behind the seats? In other words, what are the dimensions of the cargo area?

Are dimensions listed for the cargo organizer ... that would be your "perfect" fit, no ?

 

[palmermd]

what is the largest rectangular box that can be placed in the back cargo area and have it flush with the hump behind the seats? In other words, what are the dimensions of the cargo area?

Are dimensions listed for the cargo organizer ... that would be your "perfect" fit, no ?

yep, but a quick search did not give me any dimensions. It's probably out there somewhere.

 

[GeekEV]

By my measurements, the largest box you could fit with the hatchback closed is roughly 39.5"x22"x13" if you take out the L1 charger backpack. There's a few nooks and crannies that would remain,as well as some additional height if you don't go the full depth.

 

[Stunt822]

Thank you all for replies, this is very dissapointing. Yes, there are $10k of batteries, but car has $18k premium over Versa (compared with same features less $450 nav head). You'd think $33k car can have better sound....

 

[evnow]

Thank you all for replies, this is very dissapointing. Yes, there are $10k of batteries, but car has $18k premium over Versa (compared with same features less $450 nav head). You'd think $33k car can have better sound....

Yes, but Versa is a sub-compact and Leaf is mid-size. Why compare them ?

I've shown elsewhere in this forum an equivalent ICE car in size & features costs nearly as much as Leaf (after tex credit). A prius is about $3K more.

 

[DaveNagy]

It looks like the Leaf might be a good candidate for a speaker transplant like the one I did in my MINI...

The MINI had mid-range/woofers in the lower doors, tweeters in the upper doors, and full range 6" x 9"s near the back seat arm rests. All the speakers were very cheap paper-coned speakers with tiny magnets. The stock head unit was very custom to the car, and it would have been difficult to integrate the steering-wheel controls with an after market head unit. So, I kept it.

I replaced the speakers in the doors with better quality, and more efficient, drivers. Those "separates" came with their own primitive crossover. In the back, I replaced the existing 6x9s with a pair that had the best bass extension I could find. I gave them their own ~200W amplifier, and rolled them off at 80Hz or so. So essentially, the rear speakers began acting something like a sub-woofer. (I also removed the back seat, so no worries about what people trapped back there would experience. That's not something I'll probably want to do to my Leaf.)

In the end, it all still looks factory stock, but sounds much better.

You will probably want to replace the plastic spacer doohickies that the front speakers are mounted to with custom MDF spacers. Besides removing some potential resonance, that allows you place the speaker just behind the existing grill, and maximize the available depth for the speaker magnet. (It also gives you some flexibility on size, since the speaker mounting screws don't have to match the existing holes. One set of screws attaches the spacer to the car, another set attaches the speaker to the spacer.)

 

[EVDRIVER]

It looks like the Leaf might be a good candidate for a speaker transplant like the one I did in my MINI...

The MINI had mid-range/woofers in the lower doors, tweeters in the upper doors, and full range 6" x 9"s near the back seat arm rests. All the speakers were very cheap paper-coned speakers with tiny magnets. The stock head unit was very custom to the car, and it would have been difficult to integrate the steering-wheel controls with an after market head unit. So, I kept it.

I replaced the speakers in the doors with better quality, and more efficient, drivers. Those "separates" came with their own primitive crossover. In the back, I replaced the existing 6x9s with a pair that had the best bass extension I could find. I gave them their own ~200W amplifier, and rolled them off at 80Hz or so. So essentially, the rear speakers began acting something like a sub-woofer. (I also removed the back seat, so no worries about what people trapped back there would experience. That's not something I'll probably want to do to my Leaf.)

In the end, it all still looks factory stock, but sounds much better.

You will probably want to replace the plastic spacer doohickies that the front speakers are mounted to with custom MDF spacers. Besides removing some potential resonance, that allows you place the speaker just behind the existing grill, and maximize the available depth for the speaker magnet. (It also gives you some flexibility on size, since the speaker mounting screws don't have to match the existing holes. One set of screws attaches the spacer to the car, another set attaches the speaker to the spacer.)

Larger magnets are used for more power handling and usually mean less efficiency. The entire NAV and all stereo and related functions is all inside the double DIN Clarion unit in the dash, including the tiny amps. There is no line out and adding better speakers can increase quality if chosen properly but could reduce volume depending on the speakers. I would start with the front speakers first.

 

[evnow]

I replaced the speakers in the doors with better quality, and more efficient, drivers.

Yes - more efficiency is probably ueful, difficult to get along with better quality.

I listen at low levels - but some want to blast their eardrums (or they have already been damaged due to loud in-ear speakers in younger days).

 

[DaveNagy]

More efficiency is definitely useful, especially if you want to stick with the stock amps. There is no efficiency/quality trade-off, in fact the "better" speakers are often among the more efficient. (At least among their after-market peers. Are the crappy OEM speakers super efficient as well? I suppose that's possible. The fact that they don't even try to reproduce the low end might help. ("94dB at 1kHz! And well, not much outside that... )

If you do want to add amplification, the lack of line-outs is not a deal-breaker. Many amps will accept high-level (speaker level) inputs. That's clearly not the cleanest way to go, but it works.

The object is not to "blast your eardrums". But the goal can be to get the system to play loud enough to maintain some desired S/N ratio (above the fairly high noise-floor of a moving car) without having the system start to sound "strained". And as soon as you start asking the stock amps to reproduce sound an octave or two lower than the current speakers are capable of, that straining will happen at lower volumes. Further, you never want to push a weak amp too hard. That's hard on any speaker. So, more efficiency is good, and/or more amplification. Luckily, the Leaf is going to have one of the lowest (low speed) noise floors around, so that works in our favor. I'm hoping that a nicely balanced, if not terribly loud, sound can be achieved with the stock electronics.

(Can somebody with a service manual figure out where that last door-panel fastener is hiding?)

 

[evnow]

More efficiency is definitely useful, especially if you want to stick with the stock amps. There is no efficiency/quality trade-off, in fact the "better" speakers are often among the more efficient. (At least among their after-market peers. Are the crappy OEM speakers super efficient as well? I suppose that's possible. The fact that they don't even try to reproduce the low end might help. ("94dB at 1kHz! And well, not much outside that... )

Yes, you can get good high efficiency speakers - but they are very rare - atleast in the audiophile world. That is why SET anthusiasts use horns, which I guess are out of question here.

BTW, I mapped the frequency response of the Leaf last night. I need to do it again to get proper readings (didn't take the tripod stand last night) - but I don't detect any major anomolies, except for rolloff at the top & bottom, as one would expect.

 

[DaveNagy]

I have read about certain crazies using horns in their car. I think they manage to hide most of the depth in the the dash-to-firewall area. But, like I said, they are crazy.

Who are SET enthusiasts? Are those the guys that run their home systems off of 1W amplifiers?

Nice job on the EQ mapping. What are you using? I once tried to a ghetto calibration in my car, using test tones and an SPL meter. I didn't have much luck, since moving the "mic" caused the dB readings to change dramatically. Standing waves, I suppose.

My fiendish plan, now abandoned, was to deduce what sort of an EQ my car could benefit from, and than pre-bake that EQ into my .mp3s. (You'd lose some dynamic range, but that's probably survivable in a car.) I still think that plan could work. Lemme know if you come up with the Leaf's "room curve".

 

[evnow]

Who are SET enthusiasts? Are those the guys that run their home systems off of 1W amplifiers?

Right - Single Ended Triode people.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=set

Nice job on the EQ mapping. What are you using? I once tried to a ghetto calibration in my car, using test tones and an SPL meter. I didn't have much luck, since moving the "mic" caused the dB readings to change dramatically. Standing waves, I suppose.

I plan to use a ratshack SPL meter on a tripod positioned as close to the listener's head (i.e. driver's) as possible. Run the Stereophile Test CD 2 tracks (16-18?) and note the slow response, C rated number every 15 seconds. The 3 test tracks cover 3 decades and each 15 sec sound is a 1/3rd octave. Then you plot, normalized for 1 khz being @ 70dB, if needed.

 

[DaveNagy]

I plan to use a ratshack SPL meter on a tripod positioned as close to the listener's head (i.e. driver's) as possible. Run the Stereophile Test CD 2 tracks (16-18?) and note the slow response, C rated number every 15 seconds. The 3 test tracks cover 3 decades and each 15 sec sound is a 1/3rd octave. Then you plot, normalized for 1 khz being @ 70dB, if needed.

Okay, so not too different from what I attempted. You may find yourself wanting to check multiple meter locations (even if only an inch apart), and that could get tedious if you're doing this all on graph paper.

If you haven't already, check out the Room EQ Wizard software. I used it to EQ my home sub. (I've since switched to an Audyssey-equipped receiver.) It's kind of fun to play with, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

Does the Leaf have a line-in? Probably not. That would make inputting test tones for real time analysis impossible, I guess.

 

[EVDRIVER]

No line in and I would skip speaker upgrades without an amp as the factory speakers are likely more efficient than anything aftermarket.

 

[evnow]

Okay, so not too different from what I attempted. You may find yourself wanting to check multiple meter locations (even if only an inch apart), and that could get tedious if you're doing this all on graph paper.

I usually just write it on a piece of paper and then use Excel for analysis. But I plan to only do it in one place - where my head would be when driving. Usually, there isn't too much a diff in just an inch apart - except possibly in the bass.

If you haven't already, check out the Room EQ Wizard software. I used it to EQ my home sub. (I've since switched to an Audyssey-equipped receiver.) It's kind of fun to play with, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

I do have a Denon receiver (for HT) with Audyssey. I was wondering whether I could use that ... haven't played around with it enough, yet.

Does the Leaf have a line-in? Probably not. That would make inputting test tones for real time analysis impossible, I guess.

Leaf has an Aux In. Might work.

 

[tps]

I've done some looking at what kind of amps are available. I feel almost certain that, if one were to upgrade the speakers, they would find the amps in the factory head unit lacking. There are a number of 5 channel amps (LF, RF, FR, RR, SUB); many are class D on all channels. I've not bought an amp recently, but recent reviews are that class D is still not really quite good enough for the mains, only the sub (where it is most needed, anyway). So I guess I'll be looking at class A/B with a class D sub channel.

2 more weeks until the Drive Electric DC event. Hopefully I'll get a chance to form some good impressions of how much tweaking will be necessary with the LEAF.

 

[DaveNagy]

I do have a Denon receiver (for HT) with Audyssey. I was wondering whether I could use that ... haven't played around with it enough, yet.

Alas, on all the receivers that mere mortals can afford, Audyssey will happily EQ and time-align all your speakers for you, but it never tells you what it did. It's pretty much a black box. No pretty frequency response graphs or anything.

If there is an aux-in/line-in/headphone-in, then I think you could go all hog wild with Room EQ Wizard if the fancy struck you. (I'm not going to try to encourage you, since it is a bit of a pain to get set up the first time.) I think the minimal hardware requirements would be:

> A Windows laptop
> Your Rat Shack dB meter, acting as a dumb calibration mic
> A cheap little mixer, maybe? (I can't remember if the dB meter needs a mic pre-amp.)
> A collection of various cords, cables, and y-adaptors, to connect everything together.

That would probably get you well into, "I fear we're overthinking this" territory, but if you enjoy that sort of tinkering, more power to you!

 

[evnow]

If there is an aux-in/line-in/headphone-in, then I think you could go all hog wild with Room EQ Wizard if the fancy struck you. (I'm not going to try to encourage you, since it is a bit of a pain to get set up the first time.) I think the minimal hardware requirements would be:

Yes - that was what I was thinking. But I doubt I'll actually do this - since I'm a "recovering" audiophile - and don't want to start overdoing things again. Also my commute is small, so I won't listen to music in Leaf nearly enough ...

But this reminds me, I should atleast get the graph done.

 

[garygid]

Cell Phone use of Audio system:

Is the wireless, hands-free cell phone speaker voice nice and clear?

How is the microphone input clarity and noise?

 

[GeekEV]

I've been told that my outbound calls sound crystal clear, like I wasn't even on handsfree. I've noticed the incoming call sometimes seems a little choppy, but otherwise clear. I have t used the Bluetooth audio streaming much for music, but what I did sounded good.