How long 'til 4th bar drops?

[hillzofvalp]

I got goodwill. Paying partial. Lol. I feel bad saying that because I still feel a tad ripped off. I'm glad to be done with it because I was about to go through the BBB process and had all the documents collected ready to mail. Oh that's an important detail to mention. I had filed complaint with BBB with intent to follow through PRIOR to talking to dealer who talked to field rep. I suggest filing intent through bbb over phone.. it take 5 minutes. Then Nissan thinks your serious about BBB which they know they always lose in.

I agree with other posters that the update lowered the threshold to around 61-62%. I explained to Nissan that the way they are conducting this type of business is very inappropriate and they need to do a better job if people are going to stick around. This isn't really a car business anymore.. It's an energy business. There needs to be more peace of mind about batteries. I don't care if they think it's a commuter car for groceries and stuff.. they are catering to a very diverse, tough customer base by selling this car and I quite honestly feel sorry for them because over next few years they likely will get a lot of bad press about the 24kWh packs when people start going through the same process all of us are currently ( and when people who aren't "in the know" buy extremely degraded leafs, just think of the bad impression EVs are going to give from that high turnover)

I suggest to all that have gone over a couple thousand miles to speak directly with the head service manager (not at the front desks.. think office) (and when they aren't preoccupied) and suggest they contact their field rep and explain the situation. The field rep has power and can make stuff happen that consumer affairs, the engineering team, as well as the dealer cannot. If you are enthusiastic about what you do and you love your car and show it, go ahead and come off as "crazy" to them, don't take it personally. It is a really annoying process and you will be helped eventually.. I tried and tried and probably wasn't worth it to be honest if you consider all the time and grief put into it. You have to get them to sympathize with you a bit. The purpose of sharing my experience here is the hope that we can all get somewhere with this and Nissan can evolve to have better policies.

In my position I was complaining from 58k through 60k, pounded everyone I could with concerns/complaints, then when it dropped I got it in and I think showing dedication like that to getting a car fixed is something Nissan sympathizes.

I think it might help if you're younger.. but that's just a guess. They want to get long term relationships with younger owners and probably want to leave better impressions there... haha

 

[hillzofvalp]

Greetings to all fellow Leafers, this is my first post after purchasing a used '12 Leaf. I'm hopeful for 8-bar before the end of 60 months warranty. AHr fluctuated between 44.76 and 44.68 within the last 2 weeks but fairly steady around .74/.75/.76 most of the time. I'll DCQC when I can but mostly L2 charging to 80% since my commute is short enough to make it on a less than 100% charge.

Any insights/comments are welcome.

You'll get it, most likely. Just make sure you know the exact month the warranty expires and use up all the miles by then and time it right. It's about 10% per year and you need to get to 61-62%. If the car was sitting a while in a dealer it might take 2000 miles for it to correct the readings to where it actually is... it might be a few percentages lower than that

 

[tungsten]

Greetings to all fellow Leafers, this is my first post after purchasing a used '12 Leaf. I'm hopeful for 8-bar before the end of 60 months warranty. AHr fluctuated between 44.76 and 44.68 within the last 2 weeks but fairly steady around .74/.75/.76 most of the time. I'll DCQC when I can but mostly L2 charging to 80% since my commute is short enough to make it on a less than 100% charge.

Any insights/comments are welcome.

Someone more experienced can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you may want to go ahead and charge to 100% as much and as often as you can, as battery degradation is hastened by battery heating. Other generally agreed upon ways of speeding degradation also have to do with heating: parking a fully charged car in the sun on a hot day, driving aggressively with the heater on, and frequent L3 charging (although this can result in short term improvements in some of your battery readings, over a longer period, it should have a deleterious effect on your battery's health).

My AHr also fluctuates a lot. It seems to go through cycles of going up and down over a period of a few days, but each time, its peak and trough is a bit lower than the last. I'm not sure if it's true, but anecdotally, it seems like going on short trips between charges, seems to have a bigger downward effect on my AHr, than my usual 30 mile round-trip commute.

Discouraging to hear that I may not be as close to dropping to 8 bars as I thought (I bought my 9 bar 2013 SL used, knowing that it was a good candidate for a free battery). With an AHr in the 42s, I thought it would be any day, but now I am in the 41s, and it sounds like others are even lower, and still hanging on. I still have plenty of time and miles, so I'm not worried yet. Just feel awful for all the folks with 11/12s that missed the warranty by such narrow margins

 

[munkie]

Greetings to all fellow Leafers, this is my first post after purchasing a used '12 Leaf. I'm hopeful for 8-bar before the end of 60 months warranty. AHr fluctuated between 44.76 and 44.68 within the last 2 weeks but fairly steady around .74/.75/.76 most of the time. I'll DCQC when I can but mostly L2 charging to 80% since my commute is short enough to make it on a less than 100% charge.

Any insights/comments are welcome.

You'll get it, most likely. Just make sure you know the exact month the warranty expires and use up all the miles by then and time it right. It's about 10% per year and you need to get to 61-62%. If the car was sitting a while in a dealer it might take 2000 miles for it to correct the readings to where it actually is... it might be a few percentages lower than that

Thanks hillz!

 

[munkie]

Greetings to all fellow Leafers, this is my first post after purchasing a used '12 Leaf. I'm hopeful for 8-bar before the end of 60 months warranty. AHr fluctuated between 44.76 and 44.68 within the last 2 weeks but fairly steady around .74/.75/.76 most of the time. I'll DCQC when I can but mostly L2 charging to 80% since my commute is short enough to make it on a less than 100% charge.

Any insights/comments are welcome.

Someone more experienced can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you may want to go ahead and charge to 100% as much and as often as you can, as battery degradation is hastened by battery heating. Other generally agreed upon ways of speeding degradation also have to do with heating: parking a fully charged car in the sun on a hot day, driving aggressively with the heater on, and frequent L3 charging (although this can result in short term improvements in some of your battery readings, over a longer period, it should have a deleterious effect on your battery's health).

My AHr also fluctuates a lot. It seems to go through cycles of going up and down over a period of a few days, but each time, its peak and trough is a bit lower than the last. I'm not sure if it's true, but anecdotally, it seems like going on short trips between charges, seems to have a bigger downward effect on my AHr, than my usual 30 mile round-trip commute.

Discouraging to hear that I may not be as close to dropping to 8 bars as I thought (I bought my 9 bar 2013 SL used, knowing that it was a good candidate for a free battery). With an AHr in the 42s, I thought it would be any day, but now I am in the 41s, and it sounds like others are even lower, and still hanging on. I still have plenty of time and miles, so I'm not worried yet. Just feel awful for all the folks with 11/12s that missed the warranty by such narrow margins

Hope you get that drop in the next 20 months!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I'm at 43.01 Ahr, 65% SoH, and 44% Hx and *should* be down my 4th bar as well by now.

I dunno, but this seems sketchy.

a little early. most lose theirs in the "41's"

 

[Stanton]

I'm at 43.01 Ahr, 65% SoH, and 44% Hx and *should* be down my 4th bar as well by now.

I dunno, but this seems sketchy.

a little early. most lose theirs in the "41's"

or "42's"...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I'm at 43.01 Ahr, 65% SoH, and 44% Hx and *should* be down my 4th bar as well by now.

I dunno, but this seems sketchy.

a little early. most lose theirs in the "41's"

or "42's"...

its really all over the map and remember even when you lose the requisite number of bars, the pack has to be tested and some have been "slightly" over the level of replacement. There is a guy in the bay area who is under 41 ahr and one of the lowest 9 bars LEAFs I have ever heard of. We keep telling him "any day now, any day..."

 

[RCEV13]

Update: Ahr 41.24, SOH 63%, Odo 60120.

This morning I left for work with 100%, arrived 38miles later with 22% remaining (according to dash display).

 

[tungsten]

Lost my 4th bar today, at 48,

 

[BradFoxUS]

On I'm down to...
41.90AHr
63% SoH
40Hx


Holy crap I'm falling like a rock in capacity.

 

[tungsten]

Man, the mobile site for this forum kills me. Keep hitting the submit button on accident, and no way to edit (am I missing something? I can edit my posts on my computer, but not on mobile).

Anyway, happy to report that I lost my 4th bar today at 48,053 miles, AHr 41.032, SOH: 65%, Hx: 56.06. Happened right after a 100% L2 charge (I mostly do L1 charges).

In the past week or so, my AHr started to drop rather rapidly, and stopped fluctuating back upwards. Not sure if that's significant or not, but I know a lot of people have reported a lot of AHr volatility right before the drop.

Will be calling Nissan soon to schedule the battery warranty check, and I'll post my data to the spreadsheet. I believe I may have only the 2nd 2013 to have reported a 4 bar loss, and I'm happy it happened at an AHr similar to the 11/12s

Good luck to everyone still waiting!!

 

[RCEV13]

@Tungsten

Congratulations!

 

[LeftieBiker]

I believe I may have only the 2nd 2013 to have reported a 4 bar loss, and I'm happy it happened at an AHr similar to the 11/12s

There have been more than that. The January through March of 2013 built Leafs appear to have the same electrolyte as the 2011-2012 packs, even though the structure is different, because they lose capacity at pretty much the same rate as the earlier years. Leafs built from April of 2013 on have packs that, while they often (but not usually) lose one bar, seem quite reluctant to lose more.

 

[tungsten]

@RCEV13

Sorry to hear of your plight. Totally understand not wanting to waste another minute on this, but hopefully Nissan will come through on what you've already done, and at least offer you a partial break on the new battery.

Does anyone know if the replacement batteries come with a warranty? I could understand if the free replacements don't, or only have a very short warranty, but it would seem wrong to not offer the original 60k/5yr warranty to those that outright purchase their replacement packs.

 

[DaveEV]

After the bar drops see your dealer to confirm and then contact customer service. They might cover it.
They did mine. Also a person that was 5,000 miles past after numerous emails.

Some were successful through Better Business Bureau arbitration.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19880&hilit=better+business+bureau#p425586.

I'm not sure about other legal options.

Yep, your options are:

1. Open a case with Nissan for out of warranty assistance.
2. Open a case with BBB arbitration.
3. Contact a lawyer.

If you've accepted the capacity warranty settlement, your options are probably limited once you get to the point of contacting a laywer, but then again, I am not one.

 

[RCEV13]

Update:

I lost the 9th bar today. I realized it was gone while driving home this afternoon. Odo: 60,295 miles.

Charged 100% this morning:
167 GIDS (59.4%)
SOC: 91.9%
kWh: 12.9
AHrs: 41.16
SOH: 62%
________________
This afternoon:

AHrs: 41.15
SOH: 62%
Hx: 56.17
Avg: 3.874

Updated Nissan, waiting.

 

[RCEV13]

I got good news from Nissan today. In my case they've agreed to cover 90% of the cost of the replacement which I think is fair given the circumstances. I'm happy. Case closed.

 

[tungsten]

@RCEV13: that's great news!!

One thing I'm still trying to find out, is if the replacement batteries come with a warranty. It could make a difference in my driving/charging behaviors once I get the new battery. Seems like a lot of people in hot climates, who initially babied their batteries, now regret doing so because they are just missing the warranty replacement, and had they driven/charged without worrying about trying to preserve battery life, they would have easily qualified.

Anyway, I'm not expecting that the warranty would be the same as the original battery, and maybe the lizard chemistry throws this theory out the window anyway, but just curious. Guess I'll find out when I take my car in for the warranty check on Monday.

 

[baustin]

What I have typically seen across various product lines, is when an item is replaced under warranty, it is covered by the remainder of the original warranty or a specified time period for the product (usually 90 days or 1 year), whichever is longer.

What I have read, but cannot confirm, is batteries replaced under the Battery Capacity Warranty are covered by the remainder of the original capacity warranty, or 1 year, whichever is longer.

What I have also read, but cannot confirm, is a purchased replacement battery gets a new 5 year capacity warranty.

It would be nice to have a definite answer, either way. I had originally planned to eventually purchase a replacement battery for my Leaf, but it now looks as if I will get one under the capacity warranty.