How Much Would You Pay for a Battery Upgrade?

[dgpcolorado]

I'd be willing to pay another $3000 for an additional 6 kWh of battery for the LEAF and might go as high as $4200 ($700/kWh). It would make some of my intended uses for the car less complicated to arrange when driving under less than ideal conditions (cold, wet, snow/ice). [It is currently sleeting here...]

However, I realize that the LEAF is intended for metro area commuting, not remote rural use, and that the current battery pack size ought to suffice for the vast majority of daily mileage for most, but not all, drivers. The cost benefit calculation depends on the intended use. The ideal solution would be to have multiple range options and let the buyer decide. As Tesla is going to do, albeit only for the wealthy.

But Nissan had to start somewhere and I think they made a pretty good compromise between range and cost for the first gen LEAF.

 

[smkettner]

Until the current battery no long is practical I would offer no price.

 

[rmay635703]

I would prefer 100 mile US06 range and would pay $100/mile to get it. I'd also pay $700 for a 6.6kW charger and $1,500 for 10.5kW.

As I have mentioned earlier, Nissan would need to change ABSOLUTELY nothing mechanical on the leaf to have the existing battery drive it 100miles

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ev-achieves-84wh-km-100kph-207-miles-24kwh-16672.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This vehicle which is functionally the same as the leaf and similar in weight goes much further because of its aero drag rating, you don't need the leaf to look just like that to make it more aero but I think that it is far lower fruit making $500 in body modifications than paying $20k on a battery upgrade.

 

[DaveEV]

As all three packs fit in the same vehicle it is obvious that the battery technology to increase the Leaf range is already available.

I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the three Tesla packs are using different technology cells. It could simply be a matter of X amount of space available for cells, the largest pack filling 1X, the next .8X, and then .5X.

Tesla has already leaked that there will be 2 different kinds of cells used in the S - The 300 mi range car will use a higher energy density cell than the 160-230 mi range models.

What's really important, though is how much will each pack weigh... The S being a much larger car will undoubtedly weigh well over 4,000 lbs with the larger packs. For comparison - a BMW 5 series ranges between 3800-4500 lbs depending on drivetrain configuration.

 

[adric22]

So how much would you be willing to pay to upgrade your Leaf from 100 to 150 mile range to virtually eliminate range anxiety for city driving?

Since the Leaf is far more than adequate for my needs, the answer is zero. But another way to examine the same question would be, how much range would you be willing to sacrifice for, say, $8,000 cheaper of a car? For example, if there was a Leaf with half of the current models range, but cost much less money, would you buy it? My answer would have been YES! Instead of paying $26,000 for the car, I could have paid $18,000 for it. It would still have 4 times the amount of range that I actually need for my daily drive. In fact, it is very rare that I have ever come home in the Leaf and had less than 50 miles remaining on the guess-o-meter. Sure, it is comforting to know the extra range is there if I need it, but I could have certainly done without it.

For example, if I owned a Chevy Volt, it is highly likely that it would still have the same tank of gas in it that it came with from the dealership.

 

[TomT]

No, I would have looked elsewhere as that range will not work for me.

Since the Leaf is far more than adequate for my needs, the answer is zero. But another way to examine the same question would be, how much range would you be willing to sacrifice for, say, $8,000 cheaper of a car? For example, if there was a Leaf with half of the current models range, but cost much less money, would you buy it?

 

[Herm]

So which one will be more popular a few years from now, the Leaf Classic at $25k or the Leaf 200 at $33k?.. the $7500 credit will be gone by then. The Leaf 200 will weigh as much as the present version but the Classic will be 300lbs lighter.

 

[surfingslovak]

So which one will be more popular a few years from now, the Leaf Classic at $25k or the Leaf 200 at $33k?.. the $7500 credit will be gone by then. The Leaf 200 will weigh as much as the present version but the Classic will be 300lbs lighter.

In this scenario, I suspect the sales leader will be Leaf Classic, and by a wide margin.

 

[davewill]

So which one will be more popular a few years from now, the Leaf Classic at $25k or the Leaf 200 at $33k?...

I'd have to say the LEAF 200. Only those comfortable with EVs will be willing to choose the classic. 200 miles is probably enough to widen the market significantly.

 

[N952JL]

The question comes down to your driving needs. We have the "LA3" and the EPA which list the Leaf as 100/70 something. I would add a third, How many hrs at 65 on a level open freeway.

If all I had to do was to go back and forth to work, the current leaf is fine. I don't go on the interstate nor go over 50 on my way to work. And I rarely do over 25 miles in any one day so the leaf is a perfect match for work. But all work and no play .....

I live in Middle GA, a small town called Warner Robins. We have TV, Movies, and the local little theater. That's it. Macon (20 miles north) has a nice mall, and the Grand for live performances. Plus two little theaters, and the two other theaters, and the civic center. So once in awhile you can go there. Maybe six times a year. And that is well within the range of a fully charged leaf. (plan 20 miles there, 20 miles back, and 20 miles around plus lights). But the nearest lake is out of the question.

The nearest real intertainment is the Atlanta metro area. That is 108 miles north on the interstate. No way. That is also the nearest place to go Christmas shopping. (thank God for the internet). Lake Lanier would be closer to 150 one way. You need to "fly" somewhere. The Atlanta airport is also outside the range at 100.

The leaf is a great little car, and with my own 10kW PV array, which produces between 1000 - 1500 kWh per month, it is perfect for my daily communte but not for any playing. Now if I could get three hrs of interstate @ 65, that would do me. Combine that with the QC. I could live with 2.5 hrs of driving, followed by a .5 hr recharge to 80% followed by another 2 hrs of driving if need be. That should be about a 72kWh battery pack.

If the commitment was there, this should be doable within 5 years at the same price point as today. If the BEV car is going to replace the ICE we need to be heading in that direction.

 

[electricfuture]

The Tesla S will debut next year with 3 different battery packs:
160 mile range = $57,400
230 mile range = $72,400
300 mile range = $87,400

Can you please let us know where you found this pricing?

I think the pricing is this:
Each additional 70 miles of battery range should be approximately $10,000. Your numbers show $15,000 which appears to be incorrect, but I haven't located an absolutely authortitative source to find out what it actually is, since the Model S Beta event.

160 mile range = $49,900 ($57,400 excluding $7,500 tax credit)
230 mile range = $59,900 ($67,400) (approximately)
300 mile range = $69,900 ($77,400) (approximately)

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/tesla-model-s-beta-revealed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I tried to find a reference on the Tesla site, but without ordering, I could only find the base price.

$5,000 for another 35 LEAF miles, I would probably go for. I would definitely pay $5,000 for another 50 miles. $10,000 I might do if I had to, but the things I do everyday are already within the current LEAF's range. An extra 35 miles would give more margin to some occasional longer trips and cover a couple longer trips each month. Then the poor Prius would get REALLY lonely, sitting parked while I'm out in the LEAF.

The estimated prices from Car & Driver:

The hatchback Model S will have a range of luxury-car options when it debuts, including a sunroof, the leather interior, and an air suspension. Also, buyers will be able to select from three battery sizes. The battery on the base $57,400 Model S will provide a 160-mile range, while Tesla says a 230-mile range will be available for perhaps another $10,000 (a figure yet to be finalized and which may include other package extras). At the top of the line, a 300-mile range will cost perhaps $20,000 extra and open up the option of special aerodynamic wheels that stretch range to 320 miles.

 

[JPWhite]

I would definitely pay $5,000 for another 50 miles.

Me too. The extra 50 miles would be huge for me. Occasional trips (1-2 per month) require charging at the other end. Being ICE'd recently makes me cautious about doing longer trips late at night. This coming Thursday night I hope to park and charge at a downtown Nashville Hotel. Better not get ICE'd or I'll crawling along the side roads on the way home instead of zooming on the interstate.

 

[ttweed]

Until the current battery no longer is practical I would offer no price.

+1 here. The Leaf works fine for us as is, and we will probably be OK even with a 20% degradation in capacity over the years, since we rarely charge over 80%. I am hoping the L3 charging infrastructure will grow sufficiently over time to allow for our infrequent longer range excursions to be practical even with diminished capacity. We have no long commute to accomplish every day, though, so I can see why some people might desire more range, it's just not necessary for our particular situation, and I wouldn't spend any substantial amount of money to upgrade.

TT

 

[HighDesertDriver]

I just checked Google Maps for the mileage to our farthest "local" destinations. For us, -- and assuming 3.3kW J1772 charging at the destination -- 100 miles of freeway at 65mph, plus 15% to climb back up the mountains to home would be about right. That would effectively mean doubling the current Leaf battery capacity, but since we would only be willing to put $5000 into an upgrade of our existing vehicle, it is effectively a non-starter.

To be clear, we purchased our 2011 Leaf with the expectation to use it primarily for max 60 mile round-trip local driving, but we hedged our bet (with the sage advice of several here on the forum -- thank you) by including QC. In the event that new QC facilities make longer trips practical, we will happily leave the ICE vehicle in the garage. In the meantime, our new DIY 240V garage outlet and Phil's charger upgrade are already making us feel like we upgraded the battery for less than $500. We now have the option to drive the battery down to 2 bars in the evening and still be back at 100% in the morning for a second busy weekend day.

 

[Electric4Me]

As all three packs fit in the same vehicle it is obvious that the battery technology to increase the Leaf range is already available.

I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the three Tesla packs are using different technology cells. It could simply be a matter of X amount of space available for cells, the largest pack filling 1X, the next .8X, and then .5X.

Tesla has already leaked that there will be 2 different kinds of cells used in the S - The 300 mi range car will use a higher energy density cell than the 160-230 mi range models.

What's really important, though is how much will each pack weigh... The S being a much larger car will undoubtedly weigh well over 4,000 lbs with the larger packs. For comparison - a BMW 5 series ranges between 3800-4500 lbs depending on drivetrain configuration.

I just saw this thread and thought I'd comment. I stopped in at the Tesla Menlo Park showroom yesterday to see the Model S in person. The spokesperson confirmed that the small battery would use less of the battery pack volume than the medium battery. The large (capacity) battery would use the same volume as the medium, with higher density cells.

I would prefer 100 mile US06 range and would pay $100/mile to get it. I'd also pay $700 for a 6.6kW charger and $1,500 for 10.5kW.

$1500 for a 10.5 kW onboard charger - I'd do that for sure! With the current whimpy 3.3 kW charger, you have to stay at your destination for 7 hours if you need a full charge, say a round trip of 150 miles. Shorter roundtrips ould need less than 7 hours to get enough charger for the return trip. With the 10.6 kw charger, and a high power level 2 - say 50A @ 240V, it would only take a little over 2 hours.

I recall the Tesla Model S talking about two onboard charging options, 10 kW stock amd an option to add 10 kW on board for a 20 kW total!

Using a high-amperage 240-volt outlet, Model S can be recharged at the rate of 62 miles range per hour. It can be recharged in 45 minutes using a DC rapid charging station.
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I asked the spokesperson (a different one) if the Model S will come with a J1772 port, or if they were staying with the Tesla standard. She replied that at the time that they froze their design they decided to stick with the Tesla standard due to it's ability to charge at 80A/240V. An adapter would available for owners to purchase for J1772.

 

[TonyWilliams]

they froze their design they decided to stick with the Tesla standard due to it's ability to charge at 80A/240V. An adapter would available for owners to purchase for J1772.

The design for J1772 is also 80amps max.

 

[SanDust]

To be clear, we purchased our 2011 Leaf with the expectation to use it primarily for max 60 mile round-trip local driving

The thread is something of a quick question. People buying the Leaf probably bought it for driving within its range. You wouldn't expect them to pay that much more for more range. The more interesting question would be how many more people would buy a Leaf for X more dollars if it had Y more range. My guess is not many even if X were not much more.

Comparison to the range of the Model S isn't meaningful. The Leaf is cheap transportation. The Model S is something entirely different. As for the demand for the different Model S ranges, there is a reason no one will be able to buy the lowest range Model S for at least the first year (and probably longer).

 

[Electric4Me]

they froze their design they decided to stick with the Tesla standard due to it's ability to charge at 80A/240V. An adapter would available for owners to purchase for J1772.

The design for J1772 is also 80amps max.

I thought it was 70, but have never looked it up... In any case, that's their story and they're sticking to it. :lol:

Edit: Wikipedia confirms the 80 A max.