If Nissan offered to buy back your degraded Leaf, would you?

[HXGuy]

the way I see it, all Leafs are affected... with sadness and regret I'd sell ours back... I do hope Nissan realizes how close Tesla is to eating their lunch. for not a whole lot more money you get TMS, double the battery, a lot more cargo and cabin and as I heard someone say, sex on wheels!!!

You mean $65K more?

The base Tesla Model @ is $57,000 before the $7,500 tax rebate, so about $20,000 more than the Leaf.

 

[rickbecker]

I LOVE MY LEAF! I do not drive very much (3k mi. in 16 months) and, AFAIK, my Leaf has not degraded to any great extent. Am looking forward to getting a LEAFSCAN so that I can assess whether there is any significant loss of capacity.

If Nissan were to announce test results (or LEAFSCAN indicated) that my Leaf would not meet my future, meager needs, then I would sell it back. Of course it is not likely that I'd qualify for "buy back".

I am very sympathetic with all owners whose Leaf has lost capacity!

 

[adric22]

I would not do it.

I'm perfectly happy with my Leaf. My expectations have been met and even exceeded. Keep in mind that I had been driving my own home-built EV for a while and I could only do 20 miles per charge around town. Actually, it might be less than that as I never pushed it to the limit. So it would be like a PiP without the gas engine and considerably less reliable.

So the Leaf was a huge step up. Its faster, goes much further, charges faster, more reliable, etc. I've had my Leaf for a year and a half and I've never had a single problem with it. It has been an extremely reliable car.

If something did happen that would make me consider getting rid of it the obvious choice for me would be another Volt (my wife already has one of these and I drive it occasionally) or a PiP. The e-range on the PiP is enough to cover my daily driving needs. So it would simply boil down to which one I could get cheaper, the PiP or the Volt.

 

[EVDRIVER]

the way I see it, all Leafs are affected... with sadness and regret I'd sell ours back... I do hope Nissan realizes how close Tesla is to eating their lunch. for not a whole lot more money you get TMS, double the battery, a lot more cargo and cabin and as I heard someone say, sex on wheels!!!

You mean $65K more?

The base Tesla Model @ is $57,000 before the $7,500 tax rebate, so about $20,000 more than the Leaf.

Let's see what the actual price is when it is sold, until then there is no $57K base model available.

 

[jspearman]

I would drive to the Nissan dealer right now if they called and said they would buy it back. While I love the way the car drives, and I like driving on the electrons from my solar system, I do not enjoy playing Russian Roulette every morning when we turn on the car. I won't own another EV without an active TMS, and probably will never buy another Nissan because of their tepid response. I imagine that whatever happens, we will likely lease an FFE to replace the Leaf.

 

[Caracalover]

I would drive to the Nissan dealer right now if they called and said they would buy it back. While I love the way the car drives, and I like driving on the electrons from my solar system, I do not enjoy playing Russian Roulette every morning when we turn on the car. I won't own another EV without an active TMS, and probably will never buy another Nissan because of their tepid response. I imagine that whatever happens, we will likely lease an FFE to replace the Leaf.

If you think any company that is building compliance cars is going to treat you better than Nissan, you are not thinking very clearly. I have talked with people that leased the Mini E for $800 a month, had a breakdown, and had no car for weeks - yet still had to pay the $$$. Ford isn't even telling people they have an EV - what makes you think they are going to stand behind that car? They will be glad to have you angry and unhappy with it, they will even take it back and crush it giving you a new gas burning focus to replace it and keep you addicted to the ICE.

Most major car companies don't want the EV movement to succeed, and those that are willing to continue to be the pawns of the oil companies are just aiding them.

No new car without a plug. Make one better than the Leaf and I will consider trading mine in for it, but more than likely I will give up my ICE for another EV before that happens.

No more blood for oil. No more sullied water through fracking, No more space heaters being turned on just to get us to the store.

 

[evnow]

The base Tesla Model @ is $57,000 before the $7,500 tax rebate, so about $20,000 more than the Leaf.

Yes - but that won't even for FOB ? You need atleast the tech package to make it a "palatable" $50k car. That $57k before taxes is just so that they can claim a car below$50k after taxes. # of cars that actually get sold for that price will be close to zero.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The base Tesla Model @ is $57,000 before the $7,500 tax rebate, so about $20,000 more than the Leaf.

Yes - but that won't even for FOB ? You need atleast the tech package to make it a "palatable" $50k car. That $57k before taxes is just so that they can claim a car below$50k after taxes. # of cars that actually get sold for that price will be close to zero.

Exactly, the RAV4 ends up in crazy land as well.

 

[MrIanB]

Lets have a slightly different thought experiment:

Supposed GM offered all the AZ Leaf owners an exceptional trade-in value to be applied to a Volt, disregarding any battery degradation in the Leaf?.. If used Leafs are now valued at $23k (as an example) offer $35k on a Leaf trade in.. Obviously with some restrictions.

It would be a tremendous publicity coup, it would cost GM at most $5 million (the cost of replacing 400 Leaf batteries, assuming everyone took them up on the offer).. it would dump a lot of Leafs on the used market thus lowering its resale value, damaging its leasing costs and at the same time would sell an extra 400 Volts in Arizona. Its a win-win for GM, Nissan should not delay too long on a permanent solution to this problem.

No thanks, I refuse to buy any American car. Bad craftsmanship, poor reliability and low resale values in general.

Ian B

 

[surfingslovak]

If you think any company that is building compliance cars is going to treat you better than Nissan, you are not thinking very clearly. I have talked with people that leased the Mini E for $800 a month, had a breakdown, and had no car for weeks - yet still had to pay the $$$. Ford isn't even telling people they have an EV - what makes you think they are going to stand behind that car? They will be glad to have you angry and unhappy with it, they will even take it back and crush it giving you a new gas burning focus to replace it and keep you addicted to the ICE.

Most major car companies don't want the EV movement to succeed, and those that are willing to continue to be the pawns of the oil companies are just aiding them.

No new car without a plug. Make one better than the Leaf and I will consider trading mine in for it, but more than likely I will give up my ICE for another EV before that happens.

No more blood for oil. No more sullied water through fracking, No more space heaters being turned on just to get us to the store.

Point taken. While we all likely have heard of or experienced situations with less than ideal outcome, I think your post generalizing a bit too much. I did not participate in the MINI E field trial, but I have an ActiveE and I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly couple of months ago. The ActiveE had a number of teething issues, some of them quite serious. I myself was without the car for nine weeks. The LEAF on the other hand was performing surprisingly well and I was very fond of it, even though I would have liked Nissan's marketing message to be more honest and realistic.

Now the tables have turned. The battery issue Nissan is facing appears even more serious than I would have thought two months ago, and BMW has demonstrated a strong commitment to EVs. Among other things, they made significant investments in support of infrastructure players such as Coulomb, and struck other strategic deals and partnerships. They spared no effort or expense to repair affected vehicles, which often exceeded their replacement cost, as was the case with my ActiveE. They offered to make a goodwill payment on my lease despite of providing a (gas) loaner. The list goes on, and I would expect BMW to be a serious contender in the EV market.

Tesla is obviously already committed today, and although they are pushing the envelope in every imaginable direction, their vehicles won't be exactly affordable anytime soon. If the sticker is not an insurmountable obstacle, I don't think that you can go wrong when getting a Tesla. Although I had a Model S reservation, I cancelled it when I heard of the ActiveE program. The car is simply too big for my needs, it's larger than my old A6 Avant. I could use the range though!

I'm curious about Honda, and hope to find out more soon. I would not consider buying a gas car again; plugin hybrids are the outer edge of my comfort zone now.

We can only speculate about the reasons and whether Nissan knew of the battery longevity issue upfront or not. Although, Mark Perry was quick to point out that they have been researching this technology for 17 years. While I can understand that Nissan might want to play it close to the vest, the silence is deafening.

The only logical answer in my mind is that it's early in the game and nobody has everything figured out. If that's the case, then it would be more honest and beneficial to admit that. I think that would garner more favorable response and better participation. While it might have implications to the speed of adaption of this technology, it's important that prospective owners considering one of these cars (and there aren't that many on the market to begin with) clearly understand the limitations, potential pitfalls and can budget the total cost of ownership reasonably well.

 

[jspearman]

I would drive to the Nissan dealer right now if they called and said they would buy it back. While I love the way the car drives, and I like driving on the electrons from my solar system, I do not enjoy playing Russian Roulette every morning when we turn on the car. I won't own another EV without an active TMS, and probably will never buy another Nissan because of their tepid response. I imagine that whatever happens, we will likely lease an FFE to replace the Leaf.

If you think any company that is building compliance cars is going to treat you better than Nissan, you are not thinking very clearly. I have talked with people that leased the Mini E for $800 a month, had a breakdown, and had no car for weeks - yet still had to pay the $$$. Ford isn't even telling people they have an EV - what makes you think they are going to stand behind that car? They will be glad to have you angry and unhappy with it, they will even take it back and crush it giving you a new gas burning focus to replace it and keep you addicted to the ICE.

Most major car companies don't want the EV movement to succeed, and those that are willing to continue to be the pawns of the oil companies are just aiding them.

No new car without a plug. Make one better than the Leaf and I will consider trading mine in for it, but more than likely I will give up my ICE for another EV before that happens.

No more blood for oil. No more sullied water through fracking, No more space heaters being turned on just to get us to the store.

I'm not in a compliance state. Arizona will be the last state in the union, maybe behind Texas and Alaska, to go beyond the federal standards on clean air...or anything else besides more punitive laws for the poor and minorities.

Ford will have two or three plug-ins by the end of this year, which is more than Nissan makes at the moment, plus several hybrids. I'm not shilling for Ford, or anyone else, but I'm not married to Nissan's technology or this car. Also, it's a car, not the salvation of mankind. If you really want to save the planet, walk or take a bike, or move closer to your work. I feel like we are doing the bare minimum in our 3,000 s.f. house with a pool to have solar and drive one electric car, although I do have a bus pass and I use it regularly. If EV's disappeared from the planet today, it wouldn't make much difference and I don't fool myself into thinking that's true. Fewer cars and higher population density will make much more difference than trading gas cars for electric ones.

Before we moved to Phoenix we only had one car, a Honda Fit, and we drove it less than we drive the Fit in Phoenix, plus we had to buy another car because of the poor public transportation infrastructure and the ridiculously low population density. So while we've negated some of our impact, the world still has one more car than it did before, and that's not a good thing.

 

[LEAFfan]

Owned the car for 15 months and so far no loss of capacity.

Unless you have a capacity meter, I highly doubt that you have not lost ANY capacity. What probably is true however, is that you have yet to lose a capacity bar, but I predict you will in the near future. Since your location isn't shown, if you are in some cooler area of the country, then you may have lost only 2-3%.

 

[surfingslovak]

Unless you have a capacity meter, I highly doubt that you have not lost ANY capacity. What probably is true however, is that you have yet to lose a capacity bar, but I predict you will in the near future. Since your location isn't shown, if you are in some cooler area of the country, then you may have lost only 2-3%.

Andy is in the Bay Area, where no capacity bar losses have been reported yet. Although there was one recent report in Sacramento. There is a distinct possibility that we might start seeing this phenomenon in greater numbers in California by next summer. Many owners don't use a large portion of the SOC and don't track usable battery capacity. They can't really say if they lost 2, 5 or 10% of range.

 

[TonyWilliams]

They can't really say if they lost 2, 5 or 10% of range.

Just as Nissan intended.

To answer the question of this thread, I doubt I would give mine back today, only because there is not another car that I want that is available today (and I don't really want either another Nissan or a gas burner).

But, if the Rav4EV were sitting at the dealer today, and I could buy, I think I'd jump ship. Or the Tesla Model S w/60kWh battery.

I really don't want a smaller car, like Ford Focus EV, or Honda Fit. I might consider either, I don't know. I did look at a Volt again recently, and I think I could live with it, except the concept of still having to go to gas stations and get oil changes makes it WAY less appealing. Plus, I just drive too much for a 35-40 mile EV range. Even the LEAF is marginal for me, unless I had a DC fast charger in my garage :ugeek:

I wish I had leased the first LEAF, but it didn't end up costing me too much to swap into the 2012 lease LEAF. The payment is WAY cheaper than any of the choices that I might consider, and assuming the car can go 2 or 3 years without having the battery performance drop in the toilet, there should be a few more choices out there.

I absolutely would not believe whatever hype Nissan might have for a future EV (150-200 miles easy, able to leap tall buildings, etc).

 

[EVDRIVER]

I have one of the first cars, VIN in the high 300s. I get 280-281 Gids in the bay area,

 

[TonyWilliams]

I have one of the first cars, VIN in the high 300s. I get 280-281 Gids in the bay area,

How many miles?

 

[WetEV]

Probably not, as I expect good enough battery lifetime due to lower temperatures in Seattle area.

But if I did, I'd probably look at the Tesla Model S with 40kWh battery.

 

[smkettner]

Turn in my2011 LEAF for full MSRP credit? I would get a 2013 LEAF in a heartbeat.

 

[Stoaty]

Of course we would all want a 2013 Leaf, but that is not what the OP was asking:

Suppose Nissan, in order to placate those with capacity loss in hot climates, offered to buy back your Leaf for 100% of its original value and apply that towards a different model new Nissan? Cash would not be an option, you must get another new Nissan, and you cannot get another Leaf.

 

[AndyN]

Owned the car for 15 months and so far no loss of capacity.

Unless you have a capacity meter, I highly doubt that you have not lost ANY capacity. What probably is true however, is that you have yet to lose a capacity bar, but I predict you will in the near future. Since your location isn't shown, if you are in some cooler area of the country, then you may have lost only 2-3%.

Yes, you're absolutely correct. I don't know if I've actually lost any capacity. I should say I haven't been affected by any potential capacity loss. I have also never measured or calculated the mpgs that I get from my ICE cars or loss of mpgs as the cars age. As long as the car meets my needs then I'm satisfied. For me the biggest issue is still the lack of charging infrastructure. I would worry less if I knew I could charge anywhere I wanted just like a ICE car. Though I will admit if the capacity loss keeps me from driving to work and back I'd be the first in line to get rid of the Leaf. I do feel awful for those affected by premature capacity loss. I've just been fortunate.

Bay Area California. Always garaged at night and charged to 100% every night.