Is the CA rebate for dealer or consumer?

[planet4ever]

Of course the dealer can charge more than MSRP if he wants to. But here's the unethical, even illegal, part:

Actually I deal with the "Internet Manager" since I put my name in the waiting list and he always told me the selling price will be MSRP. His manager is the one started the "premium" story today

"Yeah, we're gonna sell it to you for MSRP, but see, there's this $5000 California thing we have to add on. Sorry I forgot to tell you about that earlier."

Ray

 

[AndyN]

Car was apparently sold already for 5k over

 

[thankyouOB]

I have to say that if someone offered me $70,000 for my LEAF, I would probably take it and dare say most would. Is that price gouging?

I have a great deal of respect for Nissan taking a very innovative approach to the LEAF rollout (even with all its problems) that allowed the first owners to be those who are most enthusiastic AND NOT those who have the most money. But when it comes to orphans, I agree it is supply and demand.

I give Nissan an A+ for taking a bold new concept for a new technology rollout, but unfortunately a D for execution with high hopes for improvement.

It is not a relevant example.
You-- an individual -- are not a dealer. You are not part of the network that controls production and distribution.
This is price gouging--pure and simple. There are laws against it, which may or may not apply here. But that doesnt mean that they couldnt be written to apply here.
These dealers control the supply and can manipulate the market.
As to your analysis, try a little econ 101 not so much galtian "logic."

The law forbids both the rich and poor from sleeping under a bridge.

as far as whether a dealer will do this. Some will. And their reputation for being sleezes is then, well deserved. Some won't and they will make a good living and enhance their reputation. We all like Fontana and Gardena dealers, who were dealing on MSRP. And those who wouldnt? They can walk with the Citibanks and other gougers.

 

[smkettner]

To me price gouging only really comes into play during an emergency and people are panic buying for survival.
The price of a car is going to be whatever the owner wants. Not a big deal.

 

[thankyouOB]

To me price gouging only really comes into play during an emergency and people are panic buying for survival.
The price of a car is going to be whatever the owner wants. Not a big deal.

emergency -- we got.

earthquake and tsunami causes shortage -- dealer, who also is part of the supply chain, exploits that.

panic buying? as you say, that is your personal view on gouging. there is also a host of other examples that dont involve panics and life and death.

 

[smkettner]

Gouging would have been the stores in Japan doubling the prices of food, water and basic provisions immediately after the earthquake.
There is no emergency here, just business.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Seems like fair demand-based pricing to me, but I'd have more respect if they just stepped up and put it that way..
"We have one orphan car, which we are offering to people who have not ordered for MSRP plus a $5k premium"
Plain as day. It will sell. No need to muddy it with the CA rebate talk.

I've seen line-item adds on the window stickers of hot cars like
+$4,000 "Dealer Profit"

There's nothing to argue with there. It is what it is. You don't have to buy it.
It's not necessary for survival or safety so it's not "gouging".

 

[thankyouOB]

Seems like fair demand-based pricing to me, but I'd have more respect if they just stepped up and put it that way..
"We have one orphan car, which we are offering to people who have not ordered for MSRP plus a $5k premium"
Plain as day. It will sell. No need to muddy it with the CA rebate talk.

I've seen line-item adds on the window stickers of hot cars like
+$4,000 "Dealer Profit"

There's nothing to argue with there. It is what it is. You don't have to buy it.
It's not necessary for survival or safety so it's not "gouging".

This is gouging. Take your econ 101. The dealers and Nissan are the supply chain. This is a product that they make and distribute.
When refiners hold back gasoline and price goes up, it is gouging.
How is that different for a car dealer?
Exceptions that are allowed in price-gouging statutes are prescribed "for price increases that can be justified in terms of increased cost of supply, transportation or storage."
None of those exist here. That is from the FL statute, which generally applies after a natural disaster, which is what has curtailed supply here. You have heard of the tsunami?
That car was priced at 5k less, a few minutes before the order-ed owner walked away from it. The dealer raised the price by 5k for no other reason than there is an artificial lack of supply due to the disaster and low production rates.

 

[adaminla]

If the person needs a car and the dealer charges them 5K over MSRP for every car on the lot then I could see your point about gouging.

I'm sure that Dublin Nissan will happily sell the OP an Altima for MSRP or maybe even under...

 

[smkettner]

This is gouging. Take your econ 101.

You might need to read that textbook one more time :roll:

 

[Long4Leaf]

As to your analysis, try a little econ 101 not so much galtian "logic."

Nice reply. Thanks :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Center4Energy]

I didn't reserve the LEAF from the nissan website instead I put my name in the dealer waiting list just in case someone back off when their order come. I received a call from the Dublin Nissan today they said someone doesn't want to purchase his pre-order LEAF, so I have the opportunity to own a LEAF. I went there immediately. There was someone ahead of me sitting in the car and asking questions. I was patiently waiting for an hour and this guy didn't take it. The sales guy approach me telling me I am next on the list after this guy and do I want to take it? He refused to let me test drive the car and telling me that someone is waiting behind me so I have to make my decision quick ..... it looks like he was calling everyone in his waiting list. I was under pressure so I decided to take it, then the sale guys bring me into a room for the paper work. He then tell me that since the CA $5000 rebate is ending soon, I need to pay a premium of $5000 above the MSRP price to get this car????? I was so upset and asked them is this CA rebate for the dealer or the customer? They said every sales is "demand vs supply", if I don't want it, someone will take it!

I feel that this CA rebate is meaningless ....... so I vote against to renew this CA funding. The tax payer money just go to the greedy car dealer!

Hello Tytanx,

First off sorry to comment late to this post, we have been very busy processing rebates lately. My name is David Almeida and I manage the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project (CVRP), the very $5000 rebate you mention in your post.

I want to make something clear, the CVRP, which the Nissan LEAF is eligible for, is not for the dealer. Rather, the CVRP is open to any resident, business or government entity that purchases a zero emission or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle listed on the CVRP website, http://www.energycenter.org/cvrp. Additionally, the CVRP funding is not ending after this year. In fact the Air Resources Board, the state agency that allocates funding for the CVRP, is suggesting increasing program funding substantially to somewhere between $12-$17M. While the rebate amount will likely be reduced in the next year-from $5,000 to possibly $2,500-there will be funding for vehicles into the future.

I encourage you to either call or email us with this dealer's information. They are obviously either misguided or intentionally providing the wrong information. In any case, we would like to address the situation directly. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

Thank you,

David Almeida
Program Manager, Clean Vehicle Rebate Project

California Center for Sustainable Energy
8690 Balboa Ave., Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92123-1502
858.244.1190 phone
858.244.1178 fax
http://www.energycenter.org web

 

[tytanx]

Hi David,

Thank you for your response. Below is the dealer information.

DUBLIN NISSAN
Clint Burns, Internet Sales Manager
5510 Scarlett Dr, Dublin CA 94568
Phone: 925.452.8000, Fax: 925.452.8051
Direct: 925.452.8008, Cell: 510.427.2282
www.dublinnissan.com
[email protected]

Please help them understand the purpose of this CA rebate.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Center4Energy]

Hi David,

Thank you for your response. Below is the dealer information.

DUBLIN NISSAN
Clint Burns, Internet Sales Manager
5510 Scarlett Dr, Dublin CA 94568
Phone: 925.452.8000, Fax: 925.452.8051
Direct: 925.452.8008, Cell: 510.427.2282
http://www.dublinnissan.com
[email protected]

Please help them understand the purpose of this CA rebate.

Thanks,
Ed

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the information, I will give Dublin Nissan a call later today. Feel free to email me directly, [email protected], or give me a call and we can discuss my findings.
David Almeida
Program Manager, Clean Vehicle Rebate Project

California Center for Sustainable Energy
8690 Balboa Ave., Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92123-1502
858.244.1190 phone
858.244.1178 fax
http://www.energycenter.org web

I didn't reserve the LEAF from the nissan website instead I put my name in the dealer waiting list just in case someone back off when their order come. I received a call from the Dublin Nissan today they said someone doesn't want to purchase his pre-order LEAF, so I have the opportunity to own a LEAF. I went there immediately. There was someone ahead of me sitting in the car and asking questions. I was patiently waiting for an hour and this guy didn't take it. The sales guy approach me telling me I am next on the list after this guy and do I want to take it? He refused to let me test drive the car and telling me that someone is waiting behind me so I have to make my decision quick ..... it looks like he was calling everyone in his waiting list. I was under pressure so I decided to take it, then the sale guys bring me into a room for the paper work. He then tell me that since the CA $5000 rebate is ending soon, I need to pay a premium of $5000 above the MSRP price to get this car????? I was so upset and asked them is this CA rebate for the dealer or the customer? They said every sales is "demand vs supply", if I don't want it, someone will take it!

I feel that this CA rebate is meaningless ....... so I vote against to renew this CA funding. The tax payer money just go to the greedy car dealer!

Hello Tytanx,

First off sorry to comment late to this post, we have been very busy processing rebates lately. My name is David Almeida and I manage the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project (CVRP), the very $5000 rebate you mention in your post.

I want to make something clear, the CVRP, which the Nissan LEAF is eligible for, is not for the dealer. Rather, the CVRP is open to any resident, business or government entity that purchases a zero emission or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle listed on the CVRP website, http://www.energycenter.org/cvrp. Additionally, the CVRP funding is not ending after this year. In fact the Air Resources Board, the state agency that allocates funding for the CVRP, is suggesting increasing program funding substantially to somewhere between $12-$17M. While the rebate amount will likely be reduced in the next year-from $5,000 to possibly $2,500-there will be funding for vehicles into the future.

I encourage you to either call or email us with this dealer's information. They are obviously either misguided or intentionally providing the wrong information. In any case, we would like to address the situation directly. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

Thank you,

David Almeida
Program Manager, Clean Vehicle Rebate Project

California Center for Sustainable Energy
8690 Balboa Ave., Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92123-1502
858.244.1190 phone
858.244.1178 fax
http://www.energycenter.org web

 

[dniss]

I'm sorry that didn't go as smoothly as we had hoped with our orphan Leaf, Edward. It was our first one and we're figuring things out as we go along. However, I did mention when we first met that if there was an orphan we would charge a premium due to the lack of supply when we first met, do you not remember that? I did also mention that it was mostly the lack of supply with the high demand on the car as to why we were selling it for what we wanted. When you came for the order one of the points I made was the rebate, but that was a small point among many as to why we were selling that car for what we did. According to David it looks like they may put more money into that fund, but not necessarily for the full amount. I do also remember specifically saying that I would sell you the car for MSRP if it was still here a few days later and nobody was willing to pay the price that we were asking for it, did you forget about that part? We did happen to sell if for $3k over MSRP and I would expect there to be more orphans in the future, in fact we have one that's at the port right now. It is very hard to say how many there will be long term, though as people are unpredictable.

 

[hill]

I didn't reserve the LEAF from the nissan website instead I put my name in the dealer waiting list just in case someone back off when their order come. I received a call from the Dublin Nissan today they said someone doesn't want to purchase his pre-order LEAF, so I have the opportunity to own a LEAF. I went there immediately. There was someone ahead of me sitting in the car and asking questions. I was patiently waiting for an hour and this guy didn't take it. The sales guy approach me telling me I am next on the list after this guy and do I want to take it? He refused to let me test drive the car and telling me that someone is waiting behind me so I have to make my decision quick ..... it looks like he was calling everyone in his waiting list. I was under pressure so I decided to take it, then the sale guys bring me into a room for the paper work. He then tell me that since the CA $5000 rebate is ending soon, I need to pay a premium of $5000 above the MSRP price to get this car????? I was so upset and asked them is this CA rebate for the dealer or the customer? They said every sales is "demand vs supply", if I don't want it, someone will take it!

I feel that this CA rebate is meaningless ....... so I vote against to renew this CA funding. The tax payer money just go to the greedy car dealer!

Sheez . . . so . . . you didn't get into line quick enough to be on the 1st delivery list . . . therefore ... (if I understad correctly) orphan cars can be sold for what the market will bear ... and since you'd have to pay more ... screw everyone ... you'd rather NO one get incentive money ... since you can't get what you want. That's nice.