Is the evse upgrade ul approved ?

[EVDRIVER]

One unfortunate and silly thing I noticed is the OP is likely not even talking about the evseupgrade product as he specifically mentions adding an extra hot, etc which is NOT done by evseupgrade, my guess is that all along he has been talking about the hack that guy who posted here a while ago peddling an upgrade with two power cords (extra hot) on the stock nissan unit making it completely unsafe. The OP clearly knows nothing about the evseupgrade product based on many comments and most likely was speaking of something else altogether :roll: The other thing he is not aware of is that the Japan Nissan factory cord is the same as the US cord but runs at 18A not 12A and it actually has thinner wire than the US model! Essentially the Japan cord is the same cord as the EVSE upgrade with an even thinner power cord. This goes to show how some people are completely uninformed about what they are arguing about and that this entire thread could have been about another product. :lol:

 

[jk6]

My EVSE Upgrade for the MY12 EVSE has been awesome. I am ever so grateful to have had this option. I felt comfortable using it based on the recommendation of many on this forum.

 

[QueenBee]

One unfortunate and silly thing I noticed is the OP is likely not even talking about the evseupgrade product as he specifically mentions adding an extra hot, etc which is NOT done by evseupgrade, my guess is that all along he has been talking about the hack that guy who posted here a while ago peddling an upgrade with two power cords (extra hot) on the stock nissan unit making it completely unsafe. The OP clearly knows nothing about the evseupgrade product based on many comments and most likely was speaking of something else altogether :roll: The other thing he is not aware of is that the Japan Nissan factory cord is the same as the US cord but runs at 18A not 12A and it actually has thinner wire than the US model! Essentially the Japan cord is the same cord as the EVSE upgrade with an even thinner power cord. This goes to show how some people are completely uninformed about what they are arguing about and that this entire thread could have been about another product. :lol:

Oh, crazy, nice catch. You'll notice the first thing I said was that I was assuming he was talking about EVSEUpgrade.com and he never corrected me

 

[RobertC]

The National Electrical Code (NEC) published by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) is adopted into law by local and state jurisdictions and is a standard for safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment in the United States.

Article 625 of the 2011 NEC is titled "Electric Vehicle Charging System."

625.1 Scope.
The provisions of this article cover the electrical conductors and equipment external to an electric vehicle that connect an electric vehicle to a supply of electricity by conductive or inductive means, and the installation of equipment and devices related to electric vehicle charging.

625.5 Listed or Labeled.
All electrical materials, devices, fittings, and associated equipment shall be listed or labeled.

Basically, what the NEC is saying is that the electric vehicle charging equipment should be listed or labeled by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, the reason being to require manufacturers to have their products tested and certified by an outside laboratory for electric shock and fire hazard. Because they have a financial conflict of interest, manufacturers are not permitted to certify their own products. There are several nationally recognized testing laboratories, the most common being UL, ETL and CSA.

The products sold by EVSE Upgrade are not listed or labeled by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, and therefore do not meet the requirement of the National Electrical Code.

 

[QueenBee]

The National Electrical Code (NEC) published by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) is adopted into law by local and state jurisdictions and is a standard for safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment in the United States.

Article 625 of the 2011 NEC is titled "Electric Vehicle Charging System."

625.1 Scope.
The provisions of this article cover the electrical conductors and equipment external to an electric vehicle that connect an electric vehicle to a supply of electricity by conductive or inductive means, and the installation of equipment and devices related to electric vehicle charging.

625.5 Listed or Labeled.
All electrical materials, devices, fittings, and associated equipment shall be listed or labeled.

Basically, what the NEC is saying is that the electric vehicle charging equipment should be listed or labeled by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, the reason being to require manufacturers to have their products tested and certified by an outside laboratory for electric shock and fire hazard. Because they have a financial conflict of interest, manufacturers are not permitted to certify their own products. There are several nationally recognized testing laboratories, the most common being UL, ETL and CSA.

The products sold by EVSE Upgrade are not listed or labeled by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, and therefore do not meet the requirement of the National Electrical Code.

What impact do you see that having on owners of the EVSEUpgrade?

 

[TomT]

Virtually none, nor should it!

The products sold by EVSE Upgrade are not listed or labeled by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, and therefore do not meet the requirement of the National Electrical Code.

What impact do you see that having on owners of the EVSEUpgrade?[/quote]

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Welcome to the community RobertC and for sharing that concern as your first post.

 

[lion]

It has the same impact as if you were buying an after market battery or charger for your cellphone from eBay (which was probably bought from China). The only difference is that Ingineer knows what the hell he is doing, and makes an extremely safe product, and cares about quality/safety, while the guy selling you that cheap phone charger/battery for your Samsung Galaxy S3 couldn't care less if your phone catches on fire (and usually will) the next day, because he just relabeled a lesser product.

UL IS important, no denying that, but if you want to stick with UL approved only products, you probably have to trash a lot of your equipment, heck your alarm panel in your house might break UL certification depending on where/how you installed the battery etc.

The only real reason lack of UL certification would worry me, is if it causes a major incident (such as burning down your house), and maybe insurance might give you a hard time, but I never had to deal with that, so hopefully I'm wrong about that. I would just avoid that whole situation by purchasing safe products, which is obviously what Ingineer is all about.

I have no affiliation with Ingineer, but have seen enough to know that he knows his stuff, and it's obvious that Ingineer is not just some other dude in China peddling a 300A level 10 EVSE

I just bought an AeroVironment EVSE, but plan on still getting the upgrade done.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The simple fact is that the upgrade basically makes the EVSE operate like the Japanese version which runs at a higher voltage and amperage and that one even uses thiner wire than the US model and they are essentially the same units. This is not a redesign of the EVSE, in fact likely could exceed the original EVSE UL rating. If one buys a UL listed product at Home Depot and the plug end gets broken and you replace it you have just changed the rating and it needs to be done again. There are so many non-UL devices in homes in america would be very hard to find a home without one, besides I suspect this is more about market share concerns than actual UL ratings. There are also many garbage UL approved products I would never use in my home.

 

[JeffN]

....the L1 EVSE that ships w/that GM ships w/Chevy Volt apparently isn't (wasn't?). Besides the fake you mentioned, there are plenty of products being sold in the US w/counterfeit UL labels.

The 2011 and 2012 Volts included a 120v charge cord certified by ETL which, as noted a few posts back, is recognized by the U.S. government as an alternative to UL listing.

The 120v charge cord included in the 2013 Volt is UL listed and also certified by ETL.

 

[planet4ever]

Welcome to the community RobertC and for sharing that concern as your first post.

Nice quiet sarcasm! I figured maybe RobertC was our old troll bigt signing on with a new name.

Ray

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Nice quiet sarcasm! I figured maybe RobertC was our old troll bigt signing on with a new name.
Ray

As witnesses reported a drive-by shooting...

 

[QueenBee]

The only real reason lack of UL certification would worry me, is if it causes a major incident (such as burning down your house), and maybe insurance might give you a hard time, but I never had to deal with that, so hopefully I'm wrong about that. I would just avoid that whole situation by purchasing safe products, which is obviously what Ingineer is all about.

This is just an urban myth. You can research it to your hearts content but AFAIC you'll never find an homeowner's policy that requires UL or NRTL products be used in the home to be covered. I think this myth is just so easy to propagate because it's very easy to think that an insurance company is always going to be looking for ways to deny a claim.

The best course of action is obviously use high quality products, do things correctly, be safe, etc. so your house doesn't burn down but UL doesn't guarantee that will not happen.

 

[QueenBee]

The simple fact is that the upgrade basically makes the EVSE operate like the Japanese version which runs at a higher voltage and amperage and that one even uses thiner wire than the US model and they are essentially the same units. This is not a redesign of the EVSE, in fact likely could exceed the original EVSE UL rating. If one buys a UL listed product at Home Depot and the plug end gets broken and you replace it you have just changed the rating and it needs to be done again. There are so many non-UL devices in homes in america would be very hard to find a home without one, besides I suspect this is more about market share concerns than actual UL ratings. There are also many garbage UL approved products I would never use in my home.

If the repair is done using the appropriate UL part and performed by an appropriately skilled person I don't think it loses its UL certification.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

People, stop and think about it: If your house burned down as the result of using some unsafe electrical device, or for any other reason (other than maybe arson) and that was cause for an insurance company to reject a claim, don't you think lenders would reject such policies as not providing the needed coverage for their security interest?

When was the last time you saw a UL-listed candle?

 

[dgpcolorado]

...When was the last time you saw a UL-listed candle?

Or cigarette. A significant number of house fires are due to smoking.

 

[Rauv]

It us no longer UL listed once it is changed. Don't buy it if that concerns you.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, to be absolutely clear, as soon as we modify the design, it's no longer UL Listed. But since the modifications are very slight as far as the overall design, and we use all UL listed components in the upgrade, I have zero doubt the unit would pass a re-certification review without difficulty. I will gladly take the stand in anyone's defense should there every be a question of the unit's safety. I firmly believe it is one of the most reliable and safest EVSE's available at any price, and our 100% perfect safety record backs that up.

If I was to submit the unit to UL for re-certification, it would dramatically increase the cost, and there are very few people that would want to bear this cost for a simple sticker.

I have a ground-up design that I will submit once the business case is made, but it will still cost more than the upgrade. The whole point of the upgrade is to leverage the EVSE you already have to get the costs down, and it has been highly successful in achieving this goal. If not having a UL listing concerns you, simply take your business elsewhere.

I'll remind people that even UL listed units, such as the Ecotality Blink, can still burn your house down, and there are many reports of dangerous overheating on this unit. UL listing is an attempt to make things safer by adding another set of eyes to engineered products, but problems still occur sometimes.

I've spent every effort I can to ensure that all our products are safe. I do not want the EV community to be harmed by any negative events at this critical growth stage!

-Phil

 

[lion]

The only real reason lack of UL certification would worry me, is if it causes a major incident (such as burning down your house), and maybe insurance might give you a hard time, but I never had to deal with that, so hopefully I'm wrong about that. I would just avoid that whole situation by purchasing safe products, which is obviously what Ingineer is all about.

This is just an urban myth. You can research it to your hearts content but AFAIC you'll never find an homeowner's policy that requires UL or NRTL products be used in the home to be covered. I think this myth is just so easy to propagate because it's very easy to think that an insurance company is always going to be looking for ways to deny a claim.

The best course of action is obviously use high quality products, do things correctly, be safe, etc. so your house doesn't burn down but UL doesn't guarantee that will not happen.

I was pretty sure I was wrong about that, so I'm glad you confirmed this. I'd rather be cautious than give dangerous advice.

Anyways, need to get my Level 2 EVSE installed so I can get my OEM unit upgraded (my wife actually suggested this, so you know this is a good idea!)

 

[RobertC]

What impact do you see that having on owners of the EVSEUpgrade?

I was just trying to clarify who requires electrical equipment be listed or labeled by a nationally recognized testing laboratory and why they require it, in case anyone wants to know. (Local and state jurisdictions [code enforcement or electrical inspectors] require it by adopting the National Electrical Code).

I don't have a horse in this race. Electric vehicle owners should be informed and make their own decisions.