Is the Leaf right for my lifestyle, opinion POV

[rblover69]

Hello Leaf Community,

Randen
Orlando Florida
Questions from owners and fellow enthusiasts POV.

I have been extremly intrested in the Nissan Leaf, i love everything about it from its design elements from its cost effciency. I currently own a modified 350Z and my fiance owns a current Sentra, we like uniformity when it comes to cars . However of course driving my Z to 100k has made me weary of the costs this is causing me currently and , its always good to revaluate your situation to be more cost effective. So i did some research on the leaf and see that the 100miles in reality is about low-mid 70s on average with many factors. I live in Kissimmee and travel a 46miles each way for a total of 92 miles total daily trip.

Now before you discount that travel time my ideolody changed when i noticed that less then half a mile there are charge states right near a wingate hotel and the chargepoint app located many in the kirkman international drive area and few in Kissimmee. So in essense if i where to own a Leaf i would be charging when i get to work for the drive home probably leave it there and pic it up on my lunch break. drive home no range axiety, FYI florida is mostly flat no hill but however its all highway around 55mph. Of course in this senario i would have a 240v charger in the garage for home use aswell, but my main concern is viablity as a daily driven car with these charging habits on the highway. I need a commuter car and this car is within my price range , however so are the Lexus 200h hybrid and the Prius , so my question is how viable is this car charging wise and how fast is the charging per hour on 240v since i get varied reports based on the website. Most importantly your view on this type of use for this vehicle. Of course i could complain of having a 200mile LEAF but i love the vehicle as is so no complaints, rather a opinion on these driving habits. Whats your take? do you think the LEAF could handle 25-30k miles year or even use for family driven activities?....

BTW it really sucks that there is ZERO chargers in the Melbourne Cocoa beach area, i drill for the AF it wouldve been so sweet if i could drive the car 80 miles and get a quick charge...smh..but in Orlando there seems to be a good charging structure setup.

Views, and thanks!

 

[N1ghtrider]

Randen:

I live in Miami and have travelled more than 100 miles on a single charge many times. It is not too difficult if you keep off the interstate and avoid air conditioning on a mild day. My personal bests are 125 and 130 miles on a charge (and I lead all drivers on this forum with those numbers).

I say go for it and the charging stations will start to come on line to make it easier. Note that I kept my 113,000 mile Honda Civic hybrid for longer trips.

 

[Boomer23]

Welcome to the forum and glad to hear that you are so enthusiastic about the LEAF.

Yes, the car will work for that kind of usage, given that you can reliably charge near your work. Your main challenge will be making sure that you can get one of the available charging stations near your work each day. One backup plan would be to locate an available 120 volt plug near your work that you could use in case other EVs or even a gasoline car (we call them "ICEs") is in your charging parking spot when you get to work. Eight hours at 120 volts would still add about 40 miles of charge to the amount you still have in your battery when you get to work. So if you start from home with a full charge, you might get to work with about 30 miles of charge remaining. Add 40 miles with 120 volt charging while at work, and you'd have 70 miles of range for your drive home.

As for how fast the car charges at 240 volts, you can rely on getting about 12 miles of range per hour of charging.

 

[rblover69]

Randen:

I live in Miami and have travelled more than 100 miles on a single charge many times. It is not too difficult if you keep off the interstate and avoid air conditioning on a mild day. My personal bests are 125 and 130 miles on a charge (and I lead all drivers on this forum with those numbers).

I say go for it and the charging stations will start to come on line to make it easier. Note that I kept my 113,000 mile Honda Civic hybrid for longer trips.

Im glad your in FL so you know the terrain and the driving conditions. How is the behavior of the charging on chargepoint stations. Meaning what is a hour of charging on 240v ( Which is mostly what im seeing in Orlando ) Obivously owning a 350Z ( will be the garage car ) transitioning to a Leaf ( Daily Driver )while the old lady drives the Sentra which is 34MPG will be the distance car. I wonder how many miles do you roughly get on a charge. Im intrested in this being the work horse..just want to know how viable is the horse ...thanks for your response! its all much apprciated!

 

[rblover69]

Welcome to the forum and glad to hear that you are so enthusiastic about the LEAF.

Yes, the car will work for that kind of usage, given that you can reliably charge near your work. Your main challenge will be making sure that you can get one of the available charging stations near your work each day. One backup plan would be to locate an available 120 volt plug near your work that you could use in case other EVs or even a gasoline car (we call them "ICEs") is in your charging parking spot when you get to work. Eight hours at 120 volts would still add about 40 miles of charge to the amount you still have in your battery when you get to work. So if you start from home with a full charge, you might get to work with about 30 miles of charge remaining. Add 40 miles with 120 volt charging while at work, and you'd have 70 miles of range for your drive home.

As for how fast the car charges at 240 volts, you can rely on getting about 12 miles of range per hour of charging.

Agreed, i wasnt sure how this car would perform on the Highway since i will have to travel basically parkways and Highways to work...there is another more street to street option which is longer that i may have to factor if proven better range by doing stop and go light traffic...but the lure of less maintance and gas as a work hourse is really compelling. So always good to talk to the owners and make a educated descion with real world users then paper, because i most certinly cannot go by the 100MPG rating because i have to use parkways and freeways. I dont mind not using AC to be honest i drive mostly with the fan getting 24MPG in my 350z granny driving all in the name of efficiency ...even when not so effiecient vehicle wise lol.

 

[N1ghtrider]

Randen:

Look on the Local/Regional discussions for a Florida thread that all of us in the Sunshine State use to exchange information.

Roy

 

[Boomer23]

I dont mind not using AC to be honest i drive mostly with the fan getting 24MPG in my 350z granny driving all in the name of efficiency ...even when not so effiecient vehicle wise lol.

You'll find that the AC won't draw too much power and won't affect your range much. It's the folks in cold states during winter that get hit with the drain from the heater. Also, you can pre-cool the car in the morning by running the AC while the car is still plugged in.

 

[walterbays]

Another consideration is whether any quick charge (Chademo) station is expected along your route. It's no problem waiting for L2 or even L1 at work. It could be inconvenient waiting for L2 charge along your route home if you were expected. (Sorry dear, I have to hang out at Starbucks for another hour while my car charges.) But if there were even one QC station then if something went wrong at work, or you had unexpected side trips to take, etc., you could get all the charge you needed in 20-30 minutes. You might need it very rarely, but be very glad it was there on those rare occasions.

 

[abasile]

Welcome to the forum! With your commute and mileage, I think you are an ideal candidate for owning a LEAF.

My wife, kids, and I use our LEAF as our primary car. It's comfortable enough for us, and I like the generous headroom.

Driving flat highways at a steady 55 mph in 70 degree temperatures without headwinds, crosswinds, or climate control (see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, you would have more than 80 miles of range. In real world conditions, you'd have less than that, but not too much less. If you can charge while at work, your commute should be a piece of cake in the LEAF. As long as you're not too much of a lead foot, you should even be able to charge to 80% each way for optimal battery life. With a pattern like that, 25K miles/year should be no problem at all, and you would really be maximizing the benefits of having an EV.

 

[aqn]

I live in Miami and have travelled more than 100 miles on a single charge many times. [...] My personal bests are 125 and 130 miles on a charge (and I lead all drivers on this forum with those numbers).

It doesn't count if you get out and push on the uphill stretches.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I live in Miami and have travelled more than 100 miles on a single charge many times. [...] My personal bests are 125 and 130 miles on a charge (and I lead all drivers on this forum with those numbers).

It doesn't count if you get out and push on the uphill stretches.

What uphill in Florida? :mrgreen:

I would not consider 80% charges from your house in the morning until you got some good experience. If you could somehow get the speed down to 45mph, you could round trip it. That would be my default setting until you can get a handle on recharging at work. Whatever charger is near work, it's not going to always be 100% operational or 100% available.

If you get to work, and can charge, then drive home at 80mph if you want. But if you can't, you can still get home at 45mph.

Definitely try and get a 120v at your work to plug into. Cut a deal with your company to make one available to you daily. That's way better than a public, non reserved charger.

 

[Herm]

Randen, a Leaf is not a good fit for you.. its too marginal for your long 92 mile commute, and will become even worse when the battery starts to age. Your battery will age prematurely due to your heavy usage and Central Florida temperatures in the summer. The daily afternoon rains will also impact your range. Are you really prepared to drive 92 miles at 45-55mph? Thats how you have to drive to achieve that range without recharging.

You are also depending on charging at work.. you know that chargers will break down on occasion or perhaps someone else will plug in ahead of you.

Look into a Volt, its rated 35 miles of electric range but can be hypermiled up to 73 miles, and of course it can always use the engine in the hybrid mode if you cant get the charging spot one day. GM has been extremely conservative on the battery design and I would not be surprised if the battery was still good after 200k miles. A stripped Volt (no nav) is under $39k, not too far from a Leaf. If you have the skill to get 100 miles of range on a Leaf, you also have the skill to get 46 miles of range on a Volt.

The Leaf is mostly intended as a city car, and will easily achieve more than 100 miles of range at city speeds.

 

[SanDust]

I agree with Herm and would strongly recommend against your getting a Leaf. Your commute is simply too far, and it's likely you will need to go further during the day -- meetings, lunch, doctor's appointment, and so on. I've found that with a 30-35 mile RT commute there are days when I need to take a different car because the Leaf doesn't have enough range (for me the max range is about 68 miles). As for using a charger near where you work, it's difficult to count on that every day. They may not be working or they may be being used or they may be otherwise unavailable with an ICE vehicle parked in the spot. As Tony mentions you might be able to make the roundtrip but it might prove too slow and frustrating. Way too complicated.

Unless you want your life run by your car look for an alternative. Herm's suggestion of a Volt isn't bad. Assuming you could do the RT in a Leaf you could do a one way in a Volt and recharge at work. If that proves impractical or impossible it's no big deal. It would just mean you used some gas. Likewise if you needed to you could just drive at 80 MPH and not worry about anything except using a little gas. Much simpler.

 

[jkirkebo]

My commute is 120 miles round trip. Mostly I take the train, but on those days that I start too early or finish too late for the train service to run, I take the Leaf. I have had no problems with doing that so far, even in winter and 20 F temperatures. However I can charge up at work, 230V 16A, so the car is always at 100% SOC when I head home again.

Try to negotiate charging at work. If you can do that, you should have few problems. Charge to 100% at home and you might arrive at work with 40% left if you drive carefully. 8 hours at 120V 12A should get you up to 85-90% SOC so if you use another 60% going home you have 25-30% of the battery left for other errands. With 240V charging at work (public or private) you'd have 60% left for other stuff and no need to charge to more than 80% at home.

 

[lpickup]

Agreed, i wasnt sure how this car would perform on the Highway since i will have to travel basically parkways and Highways to work...there is another more street to street option which is longer that i may have to factor if proven better range by doing stop and go light traffic...but the lure of less maintance and gas as a work hourse is really compelling. So always good to talk to the owners and make a educated descion with real world users then paper, because i most certinly cannot go by the 100MPG rating because i have to use parkways and freeways. I dont mind not using AC to be honest i drive mostly with the fan getting 24MPG in my 350z granny driving all in the name of efficiency ...even when not so effiecient vehicle wise lol.

Just remember that you are talking about two very different things here: range and efficiency

When considering range, your best best it consistent speed (i.e. cruise control if you can and if appropriate) but not too fast. The high speed on highways is what kills range, not lack of stop and go.

When considering efficiency (especially as compared to gas vehicles), then stop and go (particularly if traffic light cycles are long) is where the EV will shine. However every time you stop, you'll have to expend energy to get going again. Sure, the EV can recapture SOME (but not all) of the kinetic energy as you slow down, and while actually stopped you're not expending any energy to keep a motor running, just the climate control and vehicle accessories. But if you didn't have to slow down in the first place you'd be better off.

But it sounds like range is your biggest issue, so I would focus on that. While living in flat, warm Florida gives you the best chance for a high range, you are certainly right at the edge. I think in your case getting a charge while at work would be key to make that trip. If you feel you can reliably do so, you're probably good to go. I know you said that the highways in your area are 55mph. How fast do drivers really drive there though? My somewhat limited experience is that on the highways of Florida you've got half the people going 10-20 under and half going 20-30 over! Which group are you in?

 

[rblover69]

it's a close call, on the other hand with that type of a commute I would be dependent on charging via PUBLIC chargers. I can see the logic In the 120v at work to make it truley viable. It's a pressing issue as my issue is most certinly range. If there where 440v chargers even 1 in Orlando it would be optimal but the issue is everytime I drive that car I would be dependent on that chargepoint station which as you mention may not be available to me if certain conditions arise.

I will check my job if a 120v is avaiable in the rear of the building. As for the Chevy Volt, I cannot buy a car without NAV , the issue with the volt is its not a family car. With almost bucket seats in the rear where are the kids going to sit? One will have to sit on a middle T battery? Lol another issue with the volt is that Im not sure if it's practical compared to a Prius or even the 200h Lexus with that average ICE engine. However I will test drive it also so before passing judgment. Another thing that's horrible with the Volt is its price, for almost 45k I could buy both a 200h spec'd out or a Prius.

But you guys are right in that assumption, the only think limited would that I can only go back and forth with the car and not deviate from Course. I want a pure EV really bad but indeed there are factors for my lifestyle that concern me . WHERE ARE THE 440v chargers lol that would make it so viable lol

Test drive the, both on Thursday to get a idea.

 

[rblover69]

My commute is 120 miles round trip. Mostly I take the train, but on those days that I start too early or finish too late for the train service to run, I take the Leaf. I have had no problems with doing that so far, even in winter and 20 F temperatures. However I can charge up at work, 230V 16A, so the car is always at 100% SOC when I head home again.

Try to negotiate charging at work. If you can do that, you should have few problems. Charge to 100% at home and you might arrive at work with 40% left if you drive carefully. 8 hours at 120V 12A should get you up to 85-90% SOC so if you use another 60% going home you have 25-30% of the battery left for other errands. With 240V charging at work (public or private) you'd have 60% left for other stuff and no need to charge to more than 80% at home.

Agreed I think it's do or die based on a 120v being avaiable at my job or else the car will be to dependent on that charge point station.

 

[adric22]

Randen, a Leaf is not a good fit for you.. its too marginal for your long 92 mile commute, and will become even worse when the battery starts to age. Your battery will age prematurely due to your heavy usage and Central Florida temperatures in the summer. The daily afternoon rains will also impact your range. Are you really prepared to drive 92 miles at 45-55mph? Thats how you have to drive to achieve that range without recharging.

You are also depending on charging at work.. you know that chargers will break down on occasion or perhaps someone else will plug in ahead of you.

I have to agree. It is just too far to make it a daily commute. It is one thing to own a Leaf and make a trip like this on occasion, but not every day. There are too many things that could go wrong. The fact that you depend on recharging during the day is the real problem. What if, for example, you had just arrived at work and there was an emergency and you had to go home. You couldn't! You'd be stuck until your car recharges.

I also have to agree with Herm in that you can't always trust the charging stations to be working or to be available. You would also need to drive with the climate control off and at 55 mph or less.

I think 40 miles is the most I could ever confidently suggest somebody drive daily in a Leaf. That way you've got extra range for the unexpected issues that pop up: Detours, bad weather, unplanned after work trips, etc.

I would also suggest an alternative of a Chevy Volt or a Prius Plug-in.

 

[lpickup]

I cannot buy a car without NAV

Oh man, don't buy the LEAF because of its NAV. I am really disappointed in the LEAF's NAV. Fortunately it's main use for me is commuting and I won't ever be anywhere I truly need to use the NAV. If this NAV system had been in a vehicle I would take on trips then as much as it would pain me to do it, I would take my portable GPS and ignore the nice big beautiful touch screen in the console!

FYI, here are my issues with the LEAF's NAV:
1) It's ridiculously out of date. Roads that have been in existence well over a year are not in my maps in my brand new 2012 LEAF.
2) There doesn't appear to be a free "get caught up" map update. Even older GPS units I've bought include at least one free map update to make sure you get it up to date as of the date you bought it.
3) There doesn't appear to be a competitive map update policy. Not that I've been able to get any details on what the policy is, but guesses here on the forum indicate that updates will be made available for $150. For $110 I can buy a brand new unit with lifetime map updates and traffic included! Smartphone based GPS units are automatically up to date. This is a big deal to me since roads here are always in a state of flux, not to mention POI's.
4) Traffic requires a subscription to XM Traffic. Since I'm not interested in any of the XM music packages, this would be really cost prohibitive, but even with a music package it's still quite expensive compared to the $110 portable unit and smartphone-based apps that have traffic included for free!
5) Routing is iffy. Sometimes it's actually pretty good, but other times it's poor. Part may be due to outdated maps. I will say this though that it's faster and better at calculating reroutes if you ignore its initial route.
6) The Google maps "send to car" function is not really all that useful. Sounded like a great feature at first, but then I found out it only just sends the destination address to the car, and from there it's a bit kludgy to retrieve it. Would have been better if it sent the whole route, but then we get into the issue with having maps up to date, etc.
7) Charging stations are also way out of date and I have no idea how they are getting new ones into the system, but it's clearly a slow process. Why doesn't CARWINGS allow UPLOAD of found charging stations for everyone to share? The one clearly "killer app" of the LEAF's NAV system and it's hopelessly far behind other web sites and apps like plugshare.com
8) Minor point, but the display shows time remaining in the trip rather than arrival time and it's in a pretty small font. Maybe this can be changed, but I haven't figured that out.

WHERE ARE THE 440v chargers lol that would make it so viable lol

You really could get by with 240V or even 120V. Any time your car is just sitting around not doing anything that is an ideal time to charge. You just need to make sure you have a convenient and reliable place to charge. Even an L3 charging station may not be reliable or available when you need it (you may pull up just behind someone who needs a 30 minute charge, or maybe the unit is offline). Your best bet is to see if you can get access to a 120V outlet at work (keep in mind though that it should ideally be on its own circuit--if there are other things on the circuit you may trip the breaker). Or, if you can get your employer "on board" with the whole EV thing, see if he'd be willing to have a dedicated outside 240V outlet installed (perhaps at your expense) and then you can upgrade your portable charging cord (evseupgrade.com) to 240V and get L2 charging speed while at work.

Good luck, and enjoy your test drives!

 

[abasile]

Your battery will age prematurely due to your heavy usage and Central Florida temperatures in the summer.

If it's possible to charge at work and use the middle of the charge range by charging to 80% (or maybe 90%), I would not be at all worried about premature aging of the pack due to heavy usage. If I were constantly deep cycling the pack, then that could be more of a concern. Don't forget that 25-30k miles per year on a LEAF represents considerable fuel savings, some of which could be saved for a possible pack replacement years down the road if that is a concern.

As for faster aging due to higher temperatures, yes, that might be something to consider in Florida. Your temperatures would not represent outliers, though. The folks in southern Arizona (and there are plenty of LEAF owners there) seem likely to experience the fastest pack aging. Honestly, while we are hoping for the best, only time will tell.

You are also depending on charging at work.. you know that chargers will break down on occasion or perhaps someone else will plug in ahead of you.

I wouldn't be too worried about this if plugging in to a dedicated 120 V outlet at work. If you expect to be in the job for a long time and have a good relationship with management, perhaps they would be willing to let you pay for the installation of a 240 V charging dock (or 240 V outlet and EVSE upgrade) plus the electricity used.

It is just too far to make it a daily commute. It is one thing to own a Leaf and make a trip like this on occasion, but not every day. There are too many things that could go wrong. The fact that you depend on recharging during the day is the real problem. What if, for example, you had just arrived at work and there was an emergency and you had to go home. You couldn't! You'd be stuck until your car recharges.

Everyone has a different comfort margin and tolerance for risk. My personal feeling is that risks do not need to be completely avoided if they can be managed. Yes, there would always be the risk of a true emergency arising at home, and needing to head back there as quickly as possible. However, assuming this is a very rare scenario, I'd personally address this concern by talking to a few coworkers that I consider friends, and asking them ahead of time if they would be willing to let me borrow a car in the event of a true emergency. My guess is that this would not be a problem.