It's Not a Car, It's an iPhone! Leasing is the way to go...

[Herm]

Implying that Obama's second term would bring on gas rationing was ludicrous.

Its possible, not 100% of the blame is due to Obama but he is the prez and is responsible, for both the good and bad things that happen. Bush was blamed for everything, but now Obama has that job. He bears a lot of the blame on the unrest in the middle east, due to his in-decidedness.

Rationing?.. the US produces enough oil to supply every driver about 4 gallon gas a week.. if prices get out of hand (lets say $10 a gallon) the political screaming will be so loud that it is very possible a (at lets say $5 a gallon) coupon system will be implemented.. and you will always be able to buy more in the black market.

It is a fact that during the Obama admin new oil drilling in the US has been lagging severely, granted it takes a couple of years for new oil to come on the market but you have to start sometime. Bush would have been rendering polar bear fat by now.

He can also institute crash programs on electrics, NG powered cars/trucks and methanol synthesis from coal/NG. The usual solution proposed by populists is to release oil from the emergency national reserve.

 

[Herm]

But consider that unless you have premature battery failure, you'll likely be replacing the battery in 5 years or more.....which means not only will the cost (probably) be lower, but you'll (probably) be able to get a higher kWh rating, thus increasing the range (and value) of the car. It's literally like breathing new life into the vehicle.

I think most of those batteries are good for 10-15 years of life.. no one in their right mind is going to spend that kind of money just because of a 20% drop in range.. Leafs that are that old (like most cars) will be segregated to short runs around town, driven by the kids etc. Unless you really get an itch to upgrade your 5 year old battery with the new 400 mile range one, dibs on that used battery!

 

[BlueSL]

Ever owned an electric golf cart? When the range goes down and making it around the course becomes iffy, you don't drive it less. You replace the batteries.

When a 73 mile range becomes 53 miles, the utility of the vehicle will be substantially diminished (it will also be a tougher sell on the used market compared to one with greater capacity -- compare the resale of timeshares with time "banked" vs shares where no time is immediately available). And there will be new vehicles on the market that do not have such a light colored interior, cloth seats or cheap carpet. While the first few thousand Leafers posting here now may not trade in their old Leaf for a newer something, ask the same question on this board in 24 months when EVs are more mainstream. The vast majority will be buying their Leafs with every intention of moving on to a more modern and easy to use EV when those cars become available.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i 2nd that. as long as the Leaf has a 50 mile range, it will cover a huge portion of my transportation needs. i dont think we will ever get to a situation where both of us would need more than that daily for our commute.

as it stands, rumors that the Centralia commute might be moving much closer (62 miles RT to less than 20). if that happens its more a cushion in case i change jobs to another location. (i am looking but not very willing to commute so unlikely my commute will be more than 20 miles one way.

so the Leaf will most likely be in the family for better than a decade. the way that wont happen is a huge leap in EV tech which i am sure will happen, but if its that big, it will replace the Prius instead@!

 

[LEAFguy]

Original iPhone = $599 msrp
Original LEAF SV = $32,780 msrp

replace the iPhone with every upgrade = a few hundred $$
replace the LEAF with every upgrade = a lot more $$$$$$$$$$$$

I buy the LEAF and own it 10 years. In California, with a net cost of just over $20,000, the LEAF's purchase price alone amortizes to a little more than $2,000 per year. Plus $300 per year in electricity costs (at current rates). The longer I own it, the less the annualized cost of ownership. I owned my first car 20 years and it served me just fine.

My previous primary vehicle (2004 Nissan Quest - now my backup family hauler) cost over $200 per month just in gasoline, not counting purchase cost and other operating expenses.

Granted not everyone does things the way I do. But not everyone needs the latest technology either. As many have already pointed out. If what you want is electric transportation, there is no reason that LEAF 1.0 won't fulfill your needs for many years to come.

 

[smkettner]

The biggest range issue right now is that places to charge while out are far and few between.
50 mile range in 5 years might be similar to 100 miles today because of increased chargepoints.

 

[IBELEAF]

Here is another thing to consider, someone leasing the Leaf most likely is not going to baby the battery, while someone who bought it will likely to follow the suggested techniques to extend the life of the battery, essentially making it last for a long time.

This argument seems more like apples and oranges. If you can afford to lease and not care about loosing a lot of money when returning the car then by all means go for it. I intend to save money by keeping the car the longest therefore leasing is completely out of question.

 

[LEAFfan]

Here is another thing to consider, someone leasing the Leaf most likely is not going to baby the battery, while someone who bought it will likely to follow the suggested techniques to extend the life of the battery, essentially making it last for a long time.

I totally disagree that a lessee will not baby the battery pack. In fact, I'm willing to wager that most lessees will take care of it because until that three years is up, they won't know whether they are going to do the residual and take the car or give it back. There are way too many factors to make that determination.

 

[IBELEAF]

I totally disagree that a lessee will not baby the battery pack. In fact, I'm willing to wager that most lessees will take care of it because until that three years is up, they won't know whether they are going to do the residual and take the car or give it back. There are way too many factors to make that determination.

I take it you didn't see this post...
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1668&p=32988

I can assure you that if I opted for leasing it I would not care about battery longevity or need to baby it because at the end of the lease I would want to upgrade to something newer.

 

[TRONZ]

My wife and I are big fans of using the LEAF as we need to. We really want Nissan to get realistic/normal data from us. It will make the next product cycle that much of a better fit for our lives if we just be ourselves now.

 

[planet4ever]

Here is another thing to consider, someone leasing the Leaf most likely is not going to baby the battery, while someone who bought it will likely to follow the suggested techniques to extend the life of the battery, essentially making it last for a long time.

I totally disagree that a lessee will not baby the battery pack. In fact, I'm willing to wager that most lessees will take care of it because until that three years is up, they won't know whether they are going to do the residual and take the car or give it back. There are way too many factors to make that determination.

I'm one of those people LEAFfan is talking about. I have no idea at this point whether I will turn the car in at the end of three years or keep it. It's going to depend on how well the LEAF is doing, how much it is worth on the used car market, and how much EVs have advanced in the meantime. So I expect to charge to 80% most of the time, and baby the car most of the time.

Incidentally, here is another counter to IBELEAF's position: Most leases are set up for 12K/year. The people who commute 70 miles/day, and so have to charge to 100% most of the time, are not likely to be leasing. I'd be willing to bet, if we looked three years down the road, that the average mileage on a LEAF coming off a lease will be significantly lower than the the average mileage on an owned car being put up for sale. For that reason alone I would expect the leased vehicles' batteries, on average, to be in better shape.

Ray

 

[LEAFfan]

I totally disagree that a lessee will not baby the battery pack. In fact, I'm willing to wager that most lessees will take care of it because until that three years is up, they won't know whether they are going to do the residual and take the car or give it back. There are way too many factors to make that determination.

I take it you didn't see this post...
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1668&p=32988
I can assure you that if I opted for leasing it I would not care about battery longevity or need to baby it because at the end of the lease I would want to upgrade to something newer.

Yes, I did. So what? A few people on here say they aren't going to 'baby' it. That's not near the majority of LEAF lessees. This forum represents a very small portion of lessees. So you would upgrade to something newer after the lease? What guarantees do you have that there will be anything 'newer' and better in 3 years? Maybe the LEAF will still be the 'best' car out there by then? Who knows? No one knows for sure. If I knew that to be true, I probably wouldn't baby it either, but to abuse it is very risky.

 

[redLEAF]

Unless you are in Texas.
Texas leases essentially collect the tax on the FULL MSRP, then factors that into the lease cost. Then when you buy the car, you pay the tax again on the residual value. If you don't buy the car, the next buyer pays tax on the sales price. So in essence Texas collects tax money on the residual value twice, once at the original leasing time, and again when the lease is up.
The only reason to lease in Texas would be if you didn't have enough tax liability to need the $7500 tax credit.
Or, failing that, gasoline goes back to $1.49.

This is also true in IL -- even on those states that don't charge on the full sales price they may charge sales tax on any finance charges as well (see link below on a brief leasing guide):

http://www.leaseguide.com/lease09.htm

This being the fact, I've still leased two cars in the past in IL, one I simply turned in and one I purchased after the lease because there are always other factors to consider even though you're getting penalized twice with taxes --- I think that's the point of this thread. (The car purchased post lease had 0% finance/lease rate and was worth more than the pre-agreed residual I paid for it -- 24 month lease; the car turned in had a very low finance rate (36 month lease) but was hit and I wasn't happy with the paint match afterwards -- just wasn't worth keeping). Other threads discuss money factors, etc. but the quickly changing tech would be enough -- what generation EV would really be a 'keeper'; I think it's still too soon to tell. Of course the LEAF still needs to make it to IL!