July Plugin Sales : Leaf 395, Volt 1849, PIP 688, FFE 38

[Stoaty]

Try to understand that the Leaf is supply constrained. They sit on the lot an average of 4 days and there are less than 1500 available nationwide.

I would think that with those statistics they would sell more than 370 in one month. As a matter of fact, I would expect that if the average time on the lot is 4 days they ought to be able to sell all 1500 in a month.

 

[scottf200]

Plug in Prius sales surpass 7300.
http://www.plugincars.com/toyota-prius-plug-hybrid-sales-surpass-7300-121620.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The next few months will be interesting to see if this trend continues upward or not.

The PiP sales will be boosted by those wanting them for HOV access as well it seems. So after a few months it'll be interesting to see how the sales continue. Obviously, the Volt sales are boosted by HOV access as well for a while.

Interesting article and quotes in this article:
banished-from-the-h-o-v-lane-prius-drivers-may-be-first-to-embrace-new-plug-in-model/
Banished from the H.O.V. Lane, Prius Drivers May Be First to Embrace New Plug-In Model - NYTimes.com

California is already the country’s strongest market for alternative-powertrain cars, including the Prius. Sam Butto, a Toyota spokesman, said that California sales accounted for one out of every four in the United States.

“When those cars were eligible for California’s H.O.V. lanes, we sold out our allotment in no time,” Mr. Butto said. “We expect that the ability to use the H.O.V. lanes will be one of the most popular reasons people will buy the Prius Plug-In Hybrid. We may sell one in three or one in four of our plug-in hybrids in California.”

According to Scott Doggett, an editor at Edmunds’ AutoObserver.com, “When the H.O.V. access for California hybrids went away, it left thousands of drivers very frustrated, because their commute times had doubled or tripled. The ability to use H.O.V. lanes is a very good marketing tool for Toyota.”

 

[mkjayakumar]

. Very, very true. But, putting chargers on every corner is still a Band-Aid.

It may not give me an easy way to travel long distances, but at least with a single QC it extends my range by another 60 miles. That means the entire DFW area is within my reach. May be not convenient for a daily commute, but I can do a lot other things.

 

[DANandNAN]

. Very, very true. But, putting chargers on every corner is still a Band-Aid.

It may not give me an easy way to travel long distances, but at least with a single QC it extends my range by another 60 miles. That means the entire DFW area is within my reach. May be not convenient for a daily commute, but I can do a lot other things.

You're asking for someone to install (probably with some taxpayer dollars) a charging station that costs at least $50,000 because you bought a car that only travels 65 miles. A station that can only be used by 10k Leaf owners yet costs $50,000.

 

[GRA]

. Very, very true. But, putting chargers on every corner is still a Band-Aid.

It may not give me an easy way to travel long distances, but at least with a single QC it extends my range by another 60 miles. That means the entire DFW area is within my reach. May be not convenient for a daily commute, but I can do a lot other things.

You're asking for someone to install (probably with some taxpayer dollars) a charging station that costs at least $50,000 because you bought a car that only travels 65 miles. A station that can only be used by 10k Leaf owners yet costs $50,000.

Which is of course why they should be installed around areas with large numbers of BEVs, as a demo/seeding project. No one denies that QCs are Band-aids, but Band-aids are very useful. As mkjayakumar pointed out, increasing effective BEV range by 50-100% now while we await cheaper batteries opens up the feasibility of BEVs for more people. If QCs need some subsidies at the moment, so be it. I'd rather see government subsidies go to (smart) infrastructure than the cars themselves, as the typical BEV buyer is well able to pay full price. Of course, only the enthusiasts are likely to be willing to do so, and IMO that market has just about reached saturation level. Mainstream buyers are unlikely to move until there's major improvement in the gas price/battery price ratio.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The PiP sales will be boosted by those wanting them for HOV access as well it seems. So after a few months it'll be interesting to see how the sales continue. Obviously, the Volt sales are boosted by HOV access as well for a while.

Interesting article and quotes in this article:
banished-from-the-h-o-v-lane-prius-drivers-may-be-first-to-embrace-new-plug-in-model/
Banished from the H.O.V. Lane, Prius Drivers May Be First to Embrace New Plug-In Model - NYTimes.com

Meanwhile here in S FL we're headed the opposite direction, converting the HOV lanes to "Lexus lanes". Don't judge though, FDOT has a web site with FAQs about how this is really good for everyone, and isn't about making money.

http://95express.com/home/project-misconceptions.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Herm]

Lexus lanes because there is a toll?.. it keeps the riffraff out

http://95express.com/home/guidelines.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The express lanes are for long distance trips ONLY.
Once you enter the express lanes:
You cannot exit until the end.
You cannot cut through the plastic poles to break out of the express lanes.

http://95express.com/home/whocanuse.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Registered South Florida Vanpools, registered carpools of 3+ and registered hybrid vehicles can use the lanes without paying a toll. Motorcycles and emergency vehicles do not have to register to use them toll-free. Buses of several types – Miami-Dade and Broward County express and regular transit, public school and over-the-road – can also use the lanes toll-free after registering. Trucks with 3+ axles will not be allowed to use the express lanes even by paying a toll.

Other vehicles can use 95 Express by paying a toll with SunPass.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Lexus lanes because there is a toll?.. it keeps the riffraff out

http://95express.com/home/guidelines.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The express lanes are for long distance trips ONLY.
Once you enter the express lanes:
You cannot exit until the end.
You cannot cut through the plastic poles to break out of the express lanes.

http://95express.com/home/whocanuse.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Registered South Florida Vanpools, registered carpools of 3+ and registered hybrid vehicles can use the lanes without paying a toll. Motorcycles and emergency vehicles do not have to register to use them toll-free. Buses of several types – Miami-Dade and Broward County express and regular transit, public school and over-the-road – can also use the lanes toll-free after registering. Trucks with 3+ axles will not be allowed to use the express lanes even by paying a toll.

Other vehicles can use 95 Express by paying a toll with SunPass.

I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with the approach. It's providing a premium service to those willing (and able) to pay for it.

Click around a little more and you'll learn some more interesting things.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/ILEV-HYBRID-VEHICLE-LIST.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You don't have to settle for a Prius, the Escalade, Yukon, Ram, etc are all eligible in their hybrid forms. Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

 

[tps]

Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

The LEAF is the only electric vehicle classified as midsize, all others are compact. Even the Volt is classified as compact. Is it really that much smaller?

 

[KJD]

QC is a Band-Aid and a terrible one at that. The numbers show it. No one wants to turn their normally 4 hour ICE drive to Grandma's house into an 8 hour drive.

The LEAFs range is not an issue for everyone. It has certainly not been an issue for me. However, I realize that it is a real problem for some. But for many, it's a problem of perception, not of reality.

Very, very true. But, putting chargers on every corner is still a Band-Aid.

We do need chargers on every corner. It is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. The fact that your Volt can only go about 35 miles on a charge just adds to the number of charge stations we need.

When you drive your Volt on gasoline you are just another smoke belching gas guzzler.

 

[GRA]

Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

The LEAF is the only electric vehicle classified as midsize, all others are compact. Even the Volt is classified as compact. Is it really that much smaller?

I don't know if the values have changed, but IIRR it used to be that any vehicle with <85 cu.ft. of total interior volume (pass. and cargo area) was a subcompact, 85-100 cu.ft. was a compact, and over 100 cu.ft. to? was a midsize.

 

[Herm]

Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

The EPA classifies it as a large car.. must be a misprint. I'm glad the large hybrids also get a break.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/31409.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cwerdna]

Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

The EPA classifies it as a large car.. must be a misprint. I'm glad the large hybrids also get a break.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/31409.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The HSH is actually a midsize per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/32186.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It looks like the smaller trunk on the HSH is what pushed it down.

 

[GRA]

Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

The EPA classifies it as a large car.. must be a misprint. I'm glad the large hybrids also get a break.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/31409.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The HSH is actually a midsize per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/32186.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It looks like the smaller trunk on the HSH is what pushed it down.

Okay, here's the current size class breakpoints:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/findacarhelp.shtml#epaSizeClass" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[SolPower]

Also, the Sonata is classified as a compact while the Leaf is a midsize. Who knew.

The LEAF is the only electric vehicle classified as midsize, all others are compact. Even the Volt is classified as compact. Is it really that much smaller?

My son and I are 6' 4" - when we test drove the Leaf we gave it the back seat room test and found the head and leg room acceptable with the front seats adjusted all the way back. The Volt was available that day to try on for size and we had to duck down with our knees in our face. We concluded that for us a range extended ride in the back seat would be intolerable.

Our answer: Yes it really is that much smaller.

 

[Cheezmo]

It may not give me an easy way to travel long distances, but at least with a single QC it extends my range by another 60 miles. That means the entire DFW area is within my reach. May be not convenient for a daily commute, but I can do a lot other things.

For example, I live in Plano, my son played in a tennis tournament in Mansfield (44 miles away) last weekend. About 50% of the trip has 70mph speed limit, 25% 60 mph, and 25% side streets. Add to that a 15-20mph headwind on the way down.

I drove down there 4 times in 3 days. There was a QC at the 30 mile from home point, at a Cracker Barrel restaurant. First trip down, we ate dinner there charged enough to go to the destination and get back (wind at the back) without another charge (60 miles). 2nd trip down we ate breakfast there. 3rd trip down (2nd on the same day) I took an ICE because it wasn't near a meal time, we were time constrained and hadn't QC'd it close to home to be ready to head out again after coming home with little charge from the morning trip. 3rd day we got to the QC station at lunch time, but there were big after church and before Ranger's game crowds and a 20 minute wait we didn't have time for so we didn't eat there. But, picked up 5kWh of charge while we decided the wait was too long. Ate nearby, but had enough charge to go the 15 miles and back. Stopped by on the way back for 10 minutes to get enough charge to get home moving with traffic at 75mph. That last 10 minutes was the only time all weekend we felt like we were sitting waiting for the car to charge.

Due to the fact it was at a restaurant and eating there made sense 3 of the 4 trips, it worked out great. Good for me, good for the restaurant (except when they were too busy for me anyway).

With 5 QC stations in the metroplex right now most trips like that are pretty manageable with some planning. When there are 30, I won't even have to think.

To me the key to convenient QC'ing is to do at at some place you would stop anyway. Restaurants, maybe convenience stores like Walgreens/CVS.

What does this have to do with sales? I tell my friends. People ask what kind of range I have. I tell them I drove to Mansfield 3 times last weekend. Without QC, no story. Word of mouth to me is what will make EV's catch on. Ads alone won't do it, people need to see their friends being successful with them, and QC is key for that in my experience.

 

[DANandNAN]

Which is of course why they should be installed around areas with large numbers of BEVs, as a demo/seeding project. No one denies that QCs are Band-aids, but Band-aids are very useful. As mkjayakumar pointed out, increasing effective BEV range by 50-100% now while we await cheaper batteries opens up the feasibility of BEVs for more people. If QCs need some subsidies at the moment, so be it. I'd rather see government subsidies go to (smart) infrastructure than the cars themselves, as the typical BEV buyer is well able to pay full price. Of course, only the enthusiasts are likely to be willing to do so, and IMO that market has just about reached saturation level. Mainstream buyers are unlikely to move until there's major improvement in the gas price/battery price ratio.

Huh? Leaf owners aren't willing to pay full price for L3.

How long do you think the government should subsidize stations at $25 a pop for 12K Leafs, probably half of which aren't near a L3 station. The country is leaning really Right, Romney has EV, solar and green projects in general in his sights, so the EV community better hope he doesn't win. I'm guessing the first thing he'd do is cut any subsidies for CHAdeMO.

 

[DANandNAN]

When you drive your Volt on gasoline you are just another smoke belching gas guzzler.

LOL, how much belching does the tow truck that rescues turtled Leaf's guzzle?

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Dude, you keep going on about this turtle rescue, give it a rest! The vast majority of us drive this car within it's limits and have never had to be towed. I know it's hard for someone like you to understand, but the turtle is not a big part of our lives.

When you drive your Volt on gasoline you are just another smoke belching gas guzzler.

LOL, how much belching does the tow truck that rescues turtled Leaf's guzzle?

 

[surfingslovak]

Executives from both Nissan and Chevy recently told me that April’s 1,654 sales of the Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid undermined sales of Volt and LEAF. The relatively low cost of the PIP, and the loyalty of many Toyota Prius owners, make it a compelling choice for drivers wanting to drive solo in California’s carpool lane. All three vehicles are now granted access to the state’s HOV lanes, even when the driver is the solo occupant.

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