June-30 Nissan Mail

[mwalsh]

May be ... Nissan has decided they need to give test drives

I don't NEED a test drive. Nissan...send me a car and I'll give a dealer some cash. JOB DONE!

 

[Yanquetino]

Jack-rabbit fails to hear silent EV ... LEAFs run over jack-rabbits ... Jack-rabbit is added to the Endangered Species List :lol:

Oh... no! This "pet" lives under a sagebrush on the corner of our lot!

Do you think my Leaf will be so deadly silent that not even those ears will be able to hear it? Come to think of it... maybe Nissan could donate earhorns to blind people who insist on jaywalking rather than using crosswalks with sound signals.

 

[Jimmydreams]

I look at the June 30th email this way:

The rollout takes tremendous coordination throughout many departments in Nissan.

NOTHING will be released in an email until it passes through a couple dozen offices/groups and a couple dozen more suits who get to OK or add their two cents worth. (Nissan is, after all, a huge company). THEN it has to get through the legal department....we can't forget those legions of lawyers protecting us from ourselves.

Then and ONLY then does it get released. But all these machinations for the emails don't (or shouldn't) be used as indicators of 'on-time/delayed' status of the vehicle itself....THAT issue goes through ANOTHER few dozen departments/suits/lawyers/unions/etc.

This roll-out is insanely more complicated than I think we are giving Nissan credit for.

Me? I ain't worried. Nissan isn't Aptera....heck, Nissan has let reporters DRIVE the prototypes!! Aptera would only give rides in theirs. That speaks volumes to me about where each company is/was on the production schedule. :lol:

 

[AndyH]

As LTLFTcomposite points out, just ask the EV advocates who have been trusting Aptera, ZENN, or EEStor for years now.

There's our first problem! A touch of hypersensitivity disorder is probably the second.

Zenn? EEStor? Please tell me we're really not considering either of these to be 'real'? I'll believe one of these companies will start really shipping products about three days after North Korea opens their borders. As for Aptera - I've been rabidly waiting for them since very early on and while I wasn't allowed to place a deposit did have two purchase options lined up. That being said, I certainly didn't 'hold my breath' as I'm aware that in general a startup that IS shipping a product has about a 90% chance of failing in the first 5 years and needs to be alive for 10 to really prove themselves. Trust? Hope, maybe - strong desire - but trust is probably misplaced. For a parallel, check out Paul Moller and his air cars, or hydrogen as fuel...always 10 years out but still fund raising.

This is NOT Nissan however. Nissan is not a startup with more press releases than products. The Leaf release isn't tied to DOE funding or how happy private investors are after the 'entertainment' leaves the party.

The sensitivity settings we brought from Aptera-land might be an overall liability. Could our 'brown-smeared glasses' mask the strides Nissan is making as they march forward to turn the US auto industry on their heads?

 

[mitch672]

I've been following Dr Moller for YEARS, yeah, he may actually die before his vision is realized, he's commited, that's one thing you can say for sure about him. He also has advanced remote aerial vehicle technology for the armed services, in developing his lightweight rotopower engine.

http://www.moller.com/

 

[evnow]

Zenn? EEStor? Please tell me we're really not considering either of these to be 'real'? I'll believe one of these companies will start really shipping products about three days after North Korea opens their borders.

You are giving too much credit to ZNN/EEStor :twisted:

 

[AndyH]

Zenn? EEStor? Please tell me we're really not considering either of these to be 'real'? I'll believe one of these companies will start really shipping products about three days after North Korea opens their borders.

You are giving too much credit to ZNN/EEStor :twisted:

sorry, man...I'll adjust my attitude.

 

[Gavin]

Update:We've passed 15,000 Nissan LEAF reservations! Thankyou. We'll be sharing statistics about the reservations throughout the day

Nissan Twitter post

and 38% are from Cali...perhaps that is why they are getting some priority...or it could be that they are getting some priority because they are listed as a start up state and were always getting cars before non-start up states.


Still...good news for Nissan.

Gavin

 

[LakeLeaf]

So it could be bad news - meaning delays to get things right.

Or of course it could be something good - high end 220 and 440 capabilities build into the car at rollout (which we assumed would be there from the start) or new battery work to double the battery range or a big price drop or maybe the thing will fly!

Who knows?

Have to admit I'm a little dissappointed too.

 

[evnow]

Whatever caused the delay - it is not the car. More ikely they are still negotiating the process with dealers and may be AV / Ecotality.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I hope it means better regen, no cheap and shinny dash parts as cited by some and the addition of a 6.6kw or greater charger. It would kill resale if the car had these improvements at the end of 2010 and even more so when people start using them and seeing what 100% faster charging offers in practicality. I don't plan on keeping my Leaf more than two years tops, one if they make big changes. I'm confident the charger will hurt resale over anything else unless the range goes way up at a similar price.

 

[Yodrak]

Jimmy,

I agree with your point of view on the issue of the e-mails.

Except that "those legions of lawyers" are not protecting us from ourselves - they're protecting Nissan from us and our governments.

Regards, JEff

I look at the June 30th email this way:

The rollout takes tremendous coordination throughout many departments in Nissan.

NOTHING will be released in an email until it passes through a couple dozen offices/groups and a couple dozen more suits who get to OK or add their two cents worth. (Nissan is, after all, a huge company). THEN it has to get through the legal department....we can't forget those legions of lawyers protecting us from ourselves.

Then and ONLY then does it get released. But all these machinations for the emails don't (or shouldn't) be used as indicators of 'on-time/delayed' status of the vehicle itself....THAT issue goes through ANOTHER few dozen departments/suits/lawyers/unions/etc.

This roll-out is insanely more complicated than I think we are giving Nissan credit for.

 

[Yanquetino]

As I've already said in previous posts, the fact that Nissan couldn't fulfill its commitment to provide more instructions "by June 30" did not surprise me. I would have expected it, truth be told. What irks me is that Nissan wouldn't be more communicative about the reasons for the delay, and at least have the good manners to offer an apology.

I got on the chat this morning to ask the operator to convey that perspective to Nissan. At first the operator was equally as reticent, and responded that she could not give me any detailed explanation. Nonetheless, after a bit of prompting, she posted this:

If we wanted to simply sell a vehicle then the roll outs and deliveries would not be accomplished quite simply, this is not what Nissan is doing therefore we are taking some more time to ensure everything is done well. We are forging strategic partnerships with key state, local and regional governments and utility companies designed to jointly work towards the development of an Electric Vehicle infrastructure. Also we highly recommend having out customers install home charging docks in their homes which also requires much planning and coordination. Dealerships also have to be prepared to service and support the new vehicle before deliveries can begin. This is because as an electric car there are new aspects and equipment to consider. There are several layers to the process that result in a market receiving delivery. When we choose a launch market, we are looking for three criteria: an interested consumer base and a community with a “green” ethos; a strong government or utility partner willing to work towards the development of the infrastructure; and the presence of or potential for policies helping to promote electric vehicles and consumer adoption. All of our launch markets globally share these characteristics.

Now, this is obviously a "canned," statement, and not a true explanation. Nonetheless, the fact that the operator would copy-and-paste this particular blurb rather than any other seems to confirm my conjecture that Nissan is simply facing more hurdles in laying out the infrastructure than they had anticipated. That is completely understandable.

What isn't understandable is why they wouldn't just say so in their e-mail. There is no reason to be clandestine about unanticipated complications. Just be honest with the customers when they occur. Tell us (to paraphrase the above statement) that "forging strategic partnerships with key state, local, and regional governments, utility companies, and dealerships is taking more time than originally anticipated to ensure everything is done well."

Rather than disappointed, most customers would be happy to receive such an open, frank reassurance.

 

[johnr]

Well, I contacted Nissan by email to ask what's going on, and here's their reply:

Dear Mr. R-----,

Thank you for taking the time to personally contact us about your interest in the Nissan Electric Vehicle.

We are still finalizing some details of the order process, and we will be in touch later this summer with additional information on your order timing. Rest assured, this will not impact your reservation status. We will continue to keep you updated with all developments as they occur.


We appreciate your time, and encourage you to share our contact details with friends and family. For your convenience, we can be reached:



* By return email.
* Through our website at www.nissanusa.com
* By phone at 877-664-2738.

We’re here to serve you from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. (CST) Monday through Friday and 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. (CST) on Saturday

Sincerely,
________________
Meg
Nissan EV Customer Support
www.nissanusa.com/leaf
1-877 NO GAS EV (664-2738)

They just cut and pasted the same thing - can you believe it???

 

[Yanquetino]

They just cut and pasted the same thing - can you believe it???

Yeah... that's the same thing that the operator did to me in our chat session this morning until a prompted her repeatedly for more of an explanation. As you can see above, she didn't give me one, but at least copied-and-pasted what might be a relevant statement.

Evidently, Nissan has established a "company line" for any such inquiries, rather than offering a sincere apology and an open explanation why they couldn't keep their commitments as promised "by June 30."

I don't interpret their reticence as suspicious or sinister, but... it is nonetheless discourteous and unsympathetic. So sad.

 

[planet4ever]

I got on the chat this morning to ask the operator to convey that perspective to Nissan. At first the operator was equally as reticent, and responded that she could not give me any detailed explanation. Nonetheless, after a bit of prompting, she posted this:

Cutting to the chase, now, these lines of the Nissan reply jumped out at me:

Dealerships also have to be prepared to service and support the new vehicle before deliveries can begin. This is because as an electric car there are new aspects and equipment to consider. There are several layers to the process that result in a market receiving delivery.

I had to ask myself, 'Why did you care so much about what you expected to learn on June 30?' The answer was that I have very little idea right now of what my real priority is. Can I expect to get a Leaf in Dec 2010? June 2011? Maybe not until the end of 2011? I do live in California, but many hundreds of miles from the San Diego and LA areas they seem to be focusing on. So what "market" am I really in, and what are the roll out plans for it? Surely they can't roll out the entire state at once (770 miles long, 37 million people).

"That," Nissan seems to be saying, "is our problem." They need to subdivide the California market, and that subdivision needs to depend on a bunch of things they haven't gotten sorted out yet, including dealer participation. That's why they can't tell me what my priority is. OK, I guess I can wait a little longer, but I really want an electric car today, and if I have to wait too long, Nissan is going to lose a customer.

 

[Gavin]

I too would like an electric car today...but waiting on Nissan seems to be the best option....other than a car conversion...which isn't in my near future.

So I wait a while for Nissan to get me a car.

Admittedly if they take too long, well I will get a Ford EV or a Fiat EV...but those cars are an even longer wait than the LEAF.

I envy the car buyers of 5 years in the future...they will have lots of options and can just go and buy at a dealership...

Gavin

 

[evnow]

They just cut and pasted the same thing - can you believe it???

Ofcourse. Did you actually expect them to be privy to all the detals ? They are told how to respond to what question (through some kind of knowldge base) and they are expected to do that. I doubt anyone other than the people directly responsible for deciding what email to send know what is going on. If you want to find out what is happening, you need to get an interview with Perry or someone like that ...

 

[jgrode1]

I am in Minnesota so I will be lucky to see mine before maybe this time next year. Things will work out the way they are supposed to. If i get one in two years, that is the way it goes. I believe Nissan is really trying to get it right. There is now second chance for them. I just do not want to buy another ICE car if I don't have to. It seems just so OLD Technology to me now.

 

[bradford]

i too was disappointed with the june 30 email (me being in a non-prime area), so i emailed customer service and asked what the realistic chances were for me to get a leaf by spring 2011, here in the hudson valley region of new york state.

i got a very nice email back (not 'canned') saying her best guess was late 2011 for this area.
i'm disappointed with the lateness, but i'm pleased with straight-forwardness of the email response.

plus i just went to my local nissan dealer, and he knew no more than i did.

i'll keep watching the forum, and hope good stories come out of the prime areas.