Just test drove a 2016 Leaf SV

[Parts007]

I have read through some on the forum. But i just test drove a Leaf and wanted to throw these questions out there while they are fresh in my mind. If there is a post answering one of my questions, kindly tell me so... Thanks.

1. If I drive 15 miles a day, is it better for the battery life and longevity if I: A. Charge the car every night and top the battery off even though I've only driven 15 miles. Or B. Wait the 4 or 5 days until the battery is depleted, and then charge it full?

2. I ride bicycles and there is a community charger next to a bike path... Is a hitch available to mount a bike rack? Or has anyone used a trunk mounted bike rack you can recommend?

3. Regeneration: I test drove a Model S and the regen was so strong the brake lights automatically came on and under normal driving conditions, the brakes weren't necessary until you wanted to stop completely. The Nissan Leaf I drove, compared to the Model S I drove, had poor regeneration. Question is: is this adjustable? It is in the Tesla.

4. If I buy from a dealer far away, can I use my local dealer to charge my car. (Local dealer never had any new units in stock)

Thanks for your time, your answers will help me determine if the Leaf is right for me..

 

[minispeed]

15 miles a day?

Save some money, and by some I mean thousands and go used. There are plenty of used Leafs that have been lightly used for $10k and under that will suit you fine.

If you happen to need the occasional 55+ mile trip then a cheap used leaf might not be the best thing for you. If you need the occasional 90+ mile trip and it's below freezing the 2016 might be iffy in the winter.

As for a bike rack, yes you can get a small hitch for it, first google search
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2016_Nissan_Leaf.htm

Regen: It feels nice, it's not that good for range. Many people incorrectly attribute the amazing city range of electric cars to regen, it's a very very small part. Most of it is from the fact that you aren't constantly using power to idle like you do in an ICE car when slowing down. It's better to coast to a stop but you can't always do this in traffic. Nissan uses the brake pedal to merge regen. The prius does the same and many people have claimed it results in a pedal that feels weird. It does, but you get use to it. Much more so if it's the only car you ever drive. Tesla chooses to make it adjustable and have it all work with off pedal IIRC, you hit the brakes it only activates the brakes and doesn't add more regen.

 

[jjeff]

1. If I drive 15 miles a day, is it better for the battery life and longevity if I: A. Charge the car every night and top the battery off even though I've only driven 15 miles. Or B. Wait the 4 or 5 days until the battery is depleted, and then charge it full?

Personally I'd wait several days to charge, it's not recommended to consonantly be topping off your battery. Unfortunately the newer Leafs no longer have the handy 80% charge option, otherwise that would be ideal for you, I use that option on my '13 all the time and even my '12 has it, albeit only using the charging timer. I'm not positive the newer Leafs lack the 80% option if using the charging timer(hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong) but I know for sure it lacks the 80% option for immediate charging.
Another thing I'd try and avoid is frequently running your battery very low on a regular basis(although some people do and say it hasn't hurt anything yet) I'd suggest if you can help it not planning on driving much after the LB warning, which comes around 19%. The catch with letting your battery get to a low SOC is if you all the sudden need to drive a longer distance, you'd have to wait for the car to charge. It's kind of a balancing act but because of this for unplanned trips I generally like to always have 30-40% available, not for battery health but so I could drive a distance if I needed.

2. I ride bicycles and there is a community charger next to a bike path... Is a hitch available to mount a bike rack? Or has anyone used a trunk mounted bike rack you can recommend?

Looks like Minispeed answered that, but her is a couple more links, not I have no personal experience with either but have thought about it:
http://torkliftcentral.com/rving-and-towing/ecohitch/nissan/2013-2015-nissan-leaf-ecohitch
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=7829

3. Regeneration: I test drove a Model S and the regen was so strong the brake lights automatically came on and under normal driving conditions, the brakes weren't necessary until you wanted to stop completely. The Nissan Leaf I drove, compared to the Model S I drove, had poor regeneration. Question is: is this adjustable? It is in the Tesla.

Regen has quite a bit to do with SOC, a battery thats almost full will not allow much regen, that said my '13S has far better regen than my '12SL. My SL has to be down well below 50% before it approaches the regen on my '13S at 90% SOC and below regen on my '13 is very good I just never see it as good on my '12. I like the regen far better on my '13 and rarely have to use the friction breaks unless for a hard stop, I frequently have to use friction on my '12 and I don't like it. Note Minispeed mentioned older Leafs and they can be had for a song, it's why I purchased my '12 and if your OK with it's limited range(like it sounds like you may be) but a warning, if you thought the regen on the '16 Leaf you drove, my guess(I've never driven one) is a '11 or '12 will be far worse at all levels of SOC.

4. If I buy from a dealer far away, can I use my local dealer to charge my car. (Local dealer never had any new units in stock)

It might have to do with your dealer but in my city the Nissan Leaf dealers don't care what dealer you purchased it at, heck they don't really know if you purchased it from them or not, no one is around monitoring the charging stations. I guess your best bet might be to ask someone local(in your local thread if they have one) but again I don't believe it's the norm to disallow charging just because you purchased your Leaf at another dealer. Now using a Tesla EVSE might be different, besides the fact that they use a different charging port I believe that they only allow Tesla vehicles to charge(although I'm open to correction as I've never personally tried).

It's nice if you put your general location in your profile, that way people know how to answer questions like if your location allows charging for people that haven't purchased from them, and other things.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Regen: It feels nice, it's not that good for range. Many people incorrectly attribute the amazing city range of electric cars to regen, it's a very very small part. Most of it is from the fact that you aren't constantly using power to idle like you do in an ICE car when slowing down. It's better to coast to a stop but you can't always do this in traffic. Nissan uses the brake pedal to merge regen. The prius does the same and many people have claimed it results in a pedal that feels weird. It does, but you get use to it. Much more so if it's the only car you ever drive. Tesla chooses to make it adjustable and have it all work with off pedal IIRC, you hit the brakes it only activates the brakes and doesn't add more regen.

I strongly disagree. It can have a large effect on range. Depends on how much stop and go traffic you're in. Simple physics. You expend a ton of energy accelerating up the speed. Without regen, that energy is turned into heat in the brakes and wasted. Regen can be highly efficient at recovering that energy. Is it 100% efficient? No. Even if it was, would you recover all the energy you spent accelerating? No. There was energy lost to friction, air, tires, mechanics etc. that can't be recovered. The electronics are very efficient but not 100%. Nonetheless, it can be a big help. Using regular brakes wastes energy. Coasting is efficient as well, but impractical.
The 2013 LEAF gets better range than the 2011/2012 largely due to its stronger regen. The BMW i3 is more efficient because it has stronger regen.

On an 2013 S, you need to go into "Eco" mode to get stronger regen. On an SV or SL you use B mode. Its no where near as strong as on a Tesla or i3. I wish Nissan would have an option for stronger regen.

 

[Parts007]

Location updated. SOC must = state of charge.

I drove a Volt for some long weekends. It was fun playing with regen to gain mileage.

80% charge option I don't necessarily understand. But I am assuming you mean if you don't go more than 80% SOC, that your battery will last longer?

Tesla superchargers are free for the Model S and X. No other brand vehicles will work with them. There may even be a charge (punn not intended) for the future Model 3 owners to use the superchargers.

Thanks for all the input and comments.

 

[jjeff]

^^^ yes SOC is state of charge and not charging to 100% is supposed to be good for battery health. I believe only the '13 Leafs have the option for 80% for whenever you plug it in, with other Leafs to have it stop at 80% you must do it using the charging timer. I'm not sure newer Leafs have even the timer option for 80%, someone else will need to verify that. Apparently Nissan was kind of forced to remove the 80% option for instant charging because with it the govt. agency that determine range were going to go off 80% even though that option could be turned off at any time :roll: I guess Tesla's(all??) have such a charge limiting feature and theirs has the ability to adjust the SOC to various levels, not just 80%, not sure why Tesla gets away with it and Nissan didn't :?

I believe?? there are adapters to go from a Tesla charging station to Nissan's standard(J1772) which is why I mentioned about charging your Leaf on a Tesla EVSE, I'm not positive but I believe I've read it's an option

 

[GerryAZ]

2015 SL and SV (I assume 2016s are the same, except with larger battery) have significantly more regeneration in B mode even with almost full charge than older models. There is no way to set 80% charge limit on USA models after 2013. B mode regeneration helps efficiency in stop/go city driving, but has no benefit to range at steady highway speeds.

Gerry

 

[Parts007]

The salesperson was not knowledgeable enough about the Leaf to show me any modes or any different settings.

 

[TomT]

One of the things I really enjoy on the Volt is the strong regen. In L you get strong one pedal control of it and with the regen paddle you can add even more if you want... 55kw is common. It feels very Tesla like... You really only need the brakes to hold you once you come to a stop. There is also literally no change in regen with a full battery unless you are on a very long and steep decline... This is much appreciated by me since I live on the top of a substantial hill...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Getting back to the "how often do I charge?" question: leaving a lithium pack - especially a Nissan lithium pack - sitting at 100% isn't good for it, even though it's really only 95% or so full when it reads 100%. Ideally, you should charge the car whenever it drops below either 40% or whatever the amount of charge you need to make two trips is, whichever is higher. It should also be charged to 100% a couple of times a month, to allow pack equalization to occur. Use a charging timer set to an end time right before you will be using the car when you do that, to avoid having it sitting a long time at 100%. "A long time" is more or less generally agreed here to be more than 3-5 hours, especially in hot weather. I wouldn't worry much about 6 hours in cold weather.

 

[EVforRobert]

4. If I buy from a dealer far away, can I use my local dealer to charge my car.

Maybe, depending on availability. All dealers are different. I found this site:
http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2684&q=529116&deepNav_GID=2183

Looks like your state is quite strong for EVs. You will do more charging at home preferably with a 240V EVSE.

I charge at home. When away I use EVGo which is at some Nissan dealers and many other places.

Good luck.

 

[golfcart]

1. If I drive 15 miles a day, is it better for the battery life and longevity if I: A. Charge the car every night and top the battery off even though I've only driven 15 miles. Or B. Wait the 4 or 5 days until the battery is depleted, and then charge it full?

There are lots of threads about maintaining your battery on the forum and others in this thread have given good advice. The general consensus seems to be that the worst thing you can do for the battery is to keep it sitting at a high SOC in the heat for extended periods of time. If you are driving 15 miles a day I see no reason to charge it every night to full SOC but if you are going to drive it regularly I also don't see any reason to not charge to 100% when you do charge every few days as it won't sit that long at full charge. You should be able to figure out what works for you.

3. Regeneration: I test drove a Model S and the regen was so strong the brake lights automatically came on and under normal driving conditions, the brakes weren't necessary until you wanted to stop completely. The Nissan Leaf I drove, compared to the Model S I drove, had poor regeneration. Question is: is this adjustable? It is in the Tesla.

There are 3 modes on my 2015 S. D, Eco, and B and each have different characteristics. D has peppy acceleration and minimal regen. Eco has sluggish acceleration and fairly aggressive regen. B has peppy acceleration and fairly aggressive regen and is engaged by shifting into D again once you are already in D.

What I end up doing is using D most of the time on the highway and surface streets. It is the most efficient way to drive so that I conserve as much energy as possible as regen is never 100% efficient. So I coast a lot when I can. However, when I'm in traffic, approaching and off-ramp, or in areas with lots of stop lights I tend to use B mode to slow the car down. It is easy to toggle between D and B on the fly. Eco is probably good if you have a lead foot because it'll keep you from accelerating too quickly, but for me the joy of driving an EV is the quick throttle response at any speed and Eco kinda ruins that.

4. If I buy from a dealer far away, can I use my local dealer to charge my car. (Local dealer never had any new units in stock)

Depends entirely on the dealer. The place I bought my leaf from has a policy to charge anyone who did not buy their car there for charging. I would suggest talking with dealerships near you or consulting apps like plugshare where this info will typically be discussed in the user "Check in comments". That said, it seems to be rare that any dealerships turn people away or "charge to charge" even if you drive a different brand. My dealership seems to be an anomaly in that regard.

As a general comment, there are lots of options right now both new and used that can be had for a good price.

- I see 2012 off-lease used leafs with less than 40k miles selling for under $10k with 85 - 90% SOH on the battery. Those will still get you 70 - 75 miles on a charge and should get you 50 or more miles for at least the next 5 years up in the Northeast. Depending on your needs those could be great deals. My buddy is an independent dealer so he can get on the Manheim auction sites and stuff. He sees 2011's going as low as $4000 + fees at auction if you really wanted to go cheap contact a small dealer and see what you can work out. With my buddy you tell him what you are looking for and he'll find it at auction the charge a small fee for his services meaning I could get a 2011 right now for $5k - 6k depending on whether it needed to be shipped or not. With a 15 miles commute you don't really need a lot of range so this may be a good option. Just decide what you want in terms of options and charging (for me a QC port is a must, everything else doesn't really matter).

- If you can still find a 2015 on the lot they are offering tremendous incentives both for purchase including large $$ cash back and 0% financing. I got a 2015 S for about $15k after the tax rebate. Just keep in mind you only get the full rebate if you owe enough in taxes to claim it. Just make sure you check the battery with leafspy, any 2015 still on the lot has probably been sitting over a year at this point.

- A guy near me, also on this forum, just got a 2015 SV lease for $199 a month, no money down, for 3 years. That is $7200 for 3 years of use and no risk for you at the end if the bottom falls out of the values when 200 miles range EV's start coming out. You'll have to to a bit of haggling but there are great deals to be had. If you love the car you can lowball them at the end of the lease, if you hate it you aren't stuck being underwater with an outdated vehicle in 3 years.

- I don't know much about what the 2016's are going for but the only real advantage on the 30kwh pack I can see is if you need the extra range for a long commute, which is doesn't look like you do. That and the fact that the capacity warranty on the battery (9 bars) is 8 years instead of 5 on the 30kWh packs. So at least with a 2016 SV or SL you can be sure it'll take you 80+ miles for the next 8 years. Otherwise the cars are identical so no reason to pay a large premium for the "brand new" one.

 

[naturoses]

golfcart: Your writing is simple and clear....you are amazing....Thanks for this information....Lots of good Karma for you and others here.

1. If I drive 15 miles a day, is it better for the battery life and longevity if I: A. Charge the car every night and top the battery off even though I've only driven 15 miles. Or B. Wait the 4 or 5 days until the battery is depleted, and then charge it full?

There are lots of threads about maintaining your battery on the forum and others in this thread have given good advice. The general consensus seems to be that the worst thing you can do for the battery is to keep it sitting at a high SOC in the heat for extended periods of time. If you are driving 15 miles a day I see no reason to charge it every night to full SOC but if you are going to drive it regularly I also don't see any reason to not charge to 100% when you do charge every few days as it won't sit that long at full charge. You should be able to figure out what works for you.

3. Regeneration: I test drove a Model S and the regen was so strong the brake lights automatically came on and under normal driving conditions, the brakes weren't necessary until you wanted to stop completely. The Nissan Leaf I drove, compared to the Model S I drove, had poor regeneration. Question is: is this adjustable? It is in the Tesla.

There are 3 modes on my 2015 S. D, Eco, and B and each have different characteristics. D has peppy acceleration and minimal regen. Eco has sluggish acceleration and fairly aggressive regen. B has peppy acceleration and fairly aggressive regen and is engaged by shifting into D again once you are already in D.

What I end up doing is using D most of the time on the highway and surface streets. It is the most efficient way to drive so that I conserve as much energy as possible as regen is never 100% efficient. So I coast a lot when I can. However, when I'm in traffic, approaching and off-ramp, or in areas with lots of stop lights I tend to use B mode to slow the car down. It is easy to toggle between D and B on the fly. Eco is probably good if you have a lead foot because it'll keep you from accelerating too quickly, but for me the joy of driving an EV is the quick throttle response at any speed and Eco kinda ruins that.

4. If I buy from a dealer far away, can I use my local dealer to charge my car. (Local dealer never had any new units in stock)

Depends entirely on the dealer. The place I bought my leaf from has a policy to charge anyone who did not buy their car there for charging. I would suggest talking with dealerships near you or consulting apps like plugshare where this info will typically be discussed in the user "Check in comments". That said, it seems to be rare that any dealerships turn people away or "charge to charge" even if you drive a different brand. My dealership seems to be an anomaly in that regard.

As a general comment, there are lots of options right now both new and used that can be had for a good price.

- I see 2012 off-lease used leafs with less than 40k miles selling for under $10k with 85 - 90% SOH on the battery. Those will still get you 70 - 75 miles on a charge and should get you 50 or more miles for at least the next 5 years up in the Northeast. Depending on your needs those could be great deals. My buddy is an independent dealer so he can get on the Manheim auction sites and stuff. He sees 2011's going as low as $4000 + fees at auction if you really wanted to go cheap contact a small dealer and see what you can work out. With my buddy you tell him what you are looking for and he'll find it at auction the charge a small fee for his services meaning I could get a 2011 right now for $5k - 6k depending on whether it needed to be shipped or not. With a 15 miles commute you don't really need a lot of range so this may be a good option. Just decide what you want in terms of options and charging (for me a QC port is a must, everything else doesn't really matter).

- If you can still find a 2015 on the lot they are offering tremendous incentives both for purchase including large $$ cash back and 0% financing. I got a 2015 S for about $15k after the tax rebate. Just keep in mind you only get the full rebate if you owe enough in taxes to claim it. Just make sure you check the battery with leafspy, any 2015 still on the lot has probably been sitting over a year at this point.

- A guy near me, also on this forum, just got a 2015 SV lease for $199 a month, no money down, for 3 years. That is $7200 for 3 years of use and no risk for you at the end if the bottom falls out of the values when 200 miles range EV's start coming out. You'll have to to a bit of haggling but there are great deals to be had. If you love the car you can lowball them at the end of the lease, if you hate it you aren't stuck being underwater with an outdated vehicle in 3 years.

- I don't know much about what the 2016's are going for but the only real advantage on the 30kwh pack I can see is if you need the extra range for a long commute, which is doesn't look like you do. That and the fact that the capacity warranty on the battery (9 bars) is 8 years instead of 5 on the 30kWh packs. So at least with a 2016 SV or SL you can be sure it'll take you 80+ miles for the next 8 years. Otherwise the cars are identical so no reason to pay a large premium for the "brand new" one.

 

[jjeff]

golfcart: Your writing is simple and clear....you are amazing....Thanks for this information....Lots of good Karma for you and others here.

I thought the same thing and it had me wishing this forum had a LIKE type option where one could say you agreed with a particular post without having to actually make a post

 

[naturoses]

golfcart: Your writing is simple and clear....you are amazing....Thanks for this information....Lots of good Karma for you and others here.

I thought the same thing and it had me wishing this forum had a LIKE type option where one could say you agreed with a particular post without having to actually make a post

Like and Thanks options

 

[golfcart]

golfcart: Your writing is simple and clear....

Ha, try telling that too my wife.

Seriously though, I'm just passing along what I've learned on the forum. The early adopters figured most of this out the hard way and we get to be better buyers because of it.