LADWP Blink installs on hold because of Ecotality?

[yoobb]

I'm posting this new thread in response to:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3750

The original thread seems to blame LADWP for the delay in Blink installations. After some investigation, it seems to me that Ecotality is the one that is holding up Blink installations for LADWP customers.

For some reason, which I may speculate on later, Ecotality is requiring LADWP customers to go the route of installing a second TOU meter dedicated to EV charging. Previously, this was not a requirement. For some people, this is prohibitively expensive. For anyone with a solar PV system that supplies most of their electricity, this option doesn't make financial sense, because the net metering on the PV will likely keep the customer within the cheapest rate tier, even with EV charging.

Ecotality is able to offer their free EVSE program because of a federal government incentive. LADWP offers its own rebate program directly to its customers. The LADWP program requires the customer to install the second dedicated TOU meter for the EV. However, the LADWP program rebate is independent of the Ecotality rebate, or should be. The customer should be able to choose the Ecotality rebate, or the LADWP rebate, following the terms of whichever program they choose.

Apparently, the new Ecotality agreement requires the customer to turn over to Ecotality any rebate obtained through LADWP. By requiring Ecotality EV Project participants to get a second TOU meter, EV Project participants quality for the LADWP rebate, which is then turned over to Ecotality as part of the new EV Project agreement.

It seems like Ecotality is trying to (greedily, if I may add) claim the LADWP customer's LADWP rebate. This doesn't make much sense, though, because the LADWP rebate only covers excess costs, above the Ecotality provided rebate. Ecotality EV Project participants already take responsibility for excess costs, so I don't see how Ecotality would get any additional money from this new term. Unless, of course, Ecotality found some loophole that would allow them to claim the LADWP rebate, anyway.

I'm not normally this cynical, but Ecotality is now trying to kick me out of the EV Project by claiming I lied on my application. They accuse me of having an electric dryer and stove, but not indicating so on my original application. I don't have an electric dryer or stove (both are connected to gas lines, the stove produces a flame when in use). They also accuse me of not having an available slot on my circuit panel, although I do have one. Of course, with the requirement of a second meter, this is all a moot point anyway, because the second meter would bypass the original meter and circuit panel altogether. Furthermore, three previous electrical contractor assessments (including one provided by Ecotality) concluded the existing meter and panel are just fine for a Blink installation -- the only upgrade needed is a single circuit breaker upgrade from 30 amp to 40 amp.

The whole experience with Ecotality is incredibly frustrating. Are there any LADWP customers who have had a smooth experience with the Ecotality program?

 

[SharonaLA]

How frustrating! I sympathize with you.

For our Ecotality install in April, (prior to the new second meter TOU requirement), we paid $871 out of pocket in addition to the $1,200-Ecotality-allowed costs to install the Blink in our carport. Having to add a second meter would have made everything even more expensive.

Right now, we are among the previously installed LADWP households with solar who disagree with the retroactive efforts to force second meters on people.

I guess if necessary, we will need to take this fight to our city council.

 

[thankyouOB]

I see no support for the view that either Ecotality or LADWP will require a second TOU meter for homes that are on whole house TOU and that have solar.
and you qualify for the DWP EV discount of 2.5 cents per kWh for base usage.

The situation is different if you dont have TOU, or dont have solar.

I have both and both LADWP and Ecotality tell me it is fine and that the rules have not changed for people like me under the new DWP rebate. One TOU meter, one service.

What I cannot get is the LADWP rebate and so I cannot be reimbursed by LADWP for excess charges above the $1200 that were paid by Ecotality. I can only get that back if I add the second meter.
I choose not to and am not required to do it.
On previous threads, other Leaf owners with solar and whole hose TOU have insisted on NO second meter, and they were accommodated, according to their posts.

 

[SharonaLA]

We have solar but don't have a whole house TOU meter. Did you have to pay a lot to install the whole house TOU? Do you pay a monthly fee to have it?

 

[thankyouOB]

We have solar but don't have a whole house TOU meter. Did you have to pay a lot to install the whole house TOU? Do you pay a monthly fee to have it?

Whole house TOU with solar is the only way to go. It will almost always reduce your bill, if you do not have AC. I don't know what the trade offs are with AC though.

Whole house TOU meter simply goes in place of the existing meter in the same meter slot. I was not charged to change service.
You have a right to do that.
You can also choose a third rate program--or you could earlier this year--where you get the lower of TOU or Regular metering, but you have a TOU meter. You could do that for a year, under that program, if is still in effect.

You can see all of this how it is calculated by following the last post of mine with the URL to that page and then to the DWP rate page. Or go to DWP and click on Green LA Tab at the top, and browse all the EV, Solar and other green programs and rates. It is ALL there.
TOU is $8 per month service charge, on top of electric usage. In my case, with solar for the first month of car use, all charges were fully offset by my solar production.
I expect with increased EV usage to pay something, once I have used up my banked solar money. I may install two more panels to eliminate that, but I will go a year to get a better take on it.

 

[yoobb]

I see no support for the view that either Ecotality or LADWP will require a second TOU meter for homes that are on whole house TOU and that have solar.
and you qualify for the DWP EV discount of 2.5 cents per kWh for base usage.
[snip]
On previous threads, other Leaf owners with solar and whole hose TOU have insisted on NO second meter, and they were accommodated, according to their posts.

A rational world must be a nice place to live in for the lucky few.

Ecotality has told me that the updated agreement requires a separate, dedicated TOU meter for EV charging. They don't care the that house has solar PV.

I can remain on whole house tiered rate, or go to whole house TOU. If I go to whole house TOU, LADWP provides the TOU meter and installation at no charge to me or to Ecotality. Since solar PV provides more than 95% of the household electricity need, EV charging will remain in the lowest rate tier. It makes no sense to go to TOU metering.

Despite this, Ecotality insists that a second, dedicated TOU meter for EV charging is a requirement under the new agreement. If Ecotality is following the rules, there is no obvious reason it would be even in their interest to require the separate TOU meter. Ecotality's grant is entirely independent of LADWP's grant.

The least non-sensical explanation I can come up with is that Ecotality is somehow making money by taking the LADWP rebate from the LADWP customer. On the surface, this doesn't make sense, because the LADWP rebate pays for excess costs above any other rebates. If the customer foregoes the LADWP rebate (and the dedicated meter), the customer took responsibility for the excess costs under the original agreement. I have to wonder if Ecotality is somehow getting more money than they should from the LADWP rebate program. It doesn't make sense that Ecotality should get any of that money at all, since that transaction should be between LADWP and the LADWP customer.

The only other thing I can think of is that LADWP must really, really want its customers to get a second meter for dedicated EV service. That is the only way to qualify for the LADWP rebate. In a sane world (as described by the original Ecotality agreement), a customer would be able to choose the Ecotality rebate program and forego the LADWP rebate, along with the requirement for the second dedicated TOU meter.

It's not clear to me whether Ecotality forced the second meter requirement on LADWP to get to the LADWP rebate, or if LADWP forced the requirement on Ecotality, to push customers to install the second meter. Regardless, Ecotality EV Project participants who are now being denied by the revised agreement are being shortchanged.

 

[91040]

I would have preferred to keep this discussion in the same thread that was already in existence. The title could have been changed as necessary.

It is clear that nothing is clear about this situation. Ecotality and LADWP point at each other when asked who is responsible for anything. Ecotality is sending mixed messages to different people. It looks like the situation is still in flux.

The original Ecotality agreement gave a $1200 installation credit. The LADWP rebate is $2000. Combined they add up to $2000 according to Ecotality. Any one with higher math skills want to explain that to me? (I never took calculus.)

I have the EVSE now, installed 3 months after getting the car, and will be getting the whole house TOU. It is now Ecotality's move. Depending on what it is, I will react in my best interest.

 

[yoobb]

I'm somewhat relieved to report that there is at least a partial resumption of sanity in my situation with Ecotality and LADWP.

Upon a second review, Ecotality realized that I do not have an electric dryer or electric stove, so they are not kicking me out of their EV Project. In any case, with the new requirement from LADWP, this is a moot point.

The insanity about requiring a dedicated TOU meter for the EVSE remains. Apparently, this requirement is driven by LADWP, not by Ecotality. LADWP wants all EVSEs to run off a dedicated TOU meter, for at least a 2 year period, so that LADWP can monitor the increases in EV charging activity. LADWP will use this information for future planning.

Of course, the obvious question is why not get that information from Ecotality, who will be collecting detailed charging data through their Blink network, anyway. The answer (from Ecotality) is that, for whatever reasons (fill in the blank), Ecotality and LADWP are not set up to share this data.

If things are as (partially) sane as I hope they are, the cost of the dedicated TOU meter installation will be covered by the LADWP rebate program, the cost of the Blink EVSE and installation will be covered (mostly) by the Ecotality program. For a period of time (I think two years, while LADWP is requiring me to use the dedicated TOU meter), LADWP will actually reimburse me for the monthly cost of the second meter.

Apparently, Ecotality and LADWP reached this agreement about two weeks ago, and are just starting to implement the terms since then.

For people who managed to get their Blink installed before this insanity started, you may have LADWP coming after you as well as Ecotality. I'm not legal expert on this matter, but if you're resisting this insanity, my best wishes to you!

 

[91040]

If things are as (partially) sane as I hope they are, the cost of the dedicated TOU meter installation will be covered by the LADWP rebate program, the cost of the Blink EVSE and installation will be covered (mostly) by the Ecotality program. For a period of time (I think two years, while LADWP is requiring me to use the dedicated TOU meter), LADWP will actually reimburse me for the monthly cost of the second meter.

Apparently, Ecotality and LADWP reached this agreement about two weeks ago, and are just starting to implement the terms since then.

For people who managed to get their Blink installed before this insanity started, you may have LADWP coming after you as well as Ecotality. I'm not legal expert on this matter, but if you're resisting this insanity, my best wishes to you!

Assuming nothing has changed since my experience, you will get a $1200 credit for the EVSE installation and $800 credit for the 2nd meter.

 

[TomT]

I suggest you read the posts near the end of that thread. It has a lot of information and clarification on the subject and a second thread here on basically the same think is just raising the confusion level...

I'm posting this new thread in response to:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3750

The original thread seems to blame LADWP for the delay in Blink installations. After some investigation, it seems to me that Ecotality is the one that is holding up Blink installations for LADWP customers.