TomT
Well-known member
Note that it says "could", not will... A very big difference in semantics...
DNAinaGoodWay said:
LEAF advisory group
- Thread starter evchels
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
TomT said:
That's PluginCars statement, not Loing's. Loing says, "you will see this."
TomT
Well-known member
It sure reads like Pierre Loing's comment in the quote I read elsewhere... Perhaps he was misquoted... Regardless, it makes perfect sense for Nissan (and others) to do exactly this in the future... The bigger question is when...
DNAinaGoodWay said:
Deleted member 9549
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 690
The bigger question (or at least a big question) is how much...TomT said:
TomT
Well-known member
Ahh, yes... The chicken and the egg question! :lol:
dm33 said:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
As a member of LAB, my thoughts;
I was surprised they flew us their in Jan. had 3 days of meetings, then practically nothing as far as feedback or additional goals.
other than a 12 hour heads up on the initial (and very incomplete) battery replacement program (of which we predicted your response EXACTLY) we have heard nothing.
I expected at least a monthly update to the progress of the issues that were discussed. We received nothing...
But this trip also surprised me as well in that they were much more in tune with our dialogue even to the point of acknowledging parallel discussions and conclusions.
This time we have "assignments" organized feedback on various projects Nissan has initiated so we should see one of two things.
we submit our projects into a "black hole" and hear nothing
or we get feedback on how they will incorporate our input or at least the direction they have decided to go and solicit our thoughts on that.
Either way; one thing I have really gotten out of this experience is the much deeper understanding of the hurdles that needs to be negotiated even when all parties are on the same page.
After 3 years, Nissan is still fighting a very strong anti EV current that is flourishing in several areas. This is very much a battle that has only begun.
I was surprised they flew us their in Jan. had 3 days of meetings, then practically nothing as far as feedback or additional goals.
other than a 12 hour heads up on the initial (and very incomplete) battery replacement program (of which we predicted your response EXACTLY) we have heard nothing.
I expected at least a monthly update to the progress of the issues that were discussed. We received nothing...
But this trip also surprised me as well in that they were much more in tune with our dialogue even to the point of acknowledging parallel discussions and conclusions.
This time we have "assignments" organized feedback on various projects Nissan has initiated so we should see one of two things.
we submit our projects into a "black hole" and hear nothing
or we get feedback on how they will incorporate our input or at least the direction they have decided to go and solicit our thoughts on that.
Either way; one thing I have really gotten out of this experience is the much deeper understanding of the hurdles that needs to be negotiated even when all parties are on the same page.
After 3 years, Nissan is still fighting a very strong anti EV current that is flourishing in several areas. This is very much a battle that has only begun.
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Thank you for the insight.
Heck, I work in a tech company in what is still considered to be Silicon Valley and was amazed by some questions I got a week or two ago in the parking garage.
Thank you for the insight.
Yep and/or complete ignorance or apathy. I want to start a new thread (if there isn't one already) along the lines of, "we've got a long way to go" in terms of EV and PHEV education/awareness.DaveinOlyWA said:
Heck, I work in a tech company in what is still considered to be Silicon Valley and was amazed by some questions I got a week or two ago in the parking garage.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
LOL! did you see the OR EVA association article posted about "what to know when considering an EV" (title approximate) I could not believe they put that on their website.
if you knew very little about EVs and read this what would your impressions be?
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/365575-electric-car-shopping-guide-what-to-consider-before-buying-an-electric-car/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
+1
Ignorance is huge here. Often, I get asked, " you mean it takes no gas at all?"
LEAF advertising is a small drop in the media tsunami of the automotive world.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
You mean, that little solar panel on the roof is all I need?! :lol: :twisted: cwerdna
Well-known member
Holy crap! Wow! Just wow!DaveinOlyWA said:
Anyway, the new thread I started re: EV ignorance, apathy, misinformation, etc. is at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15104&p=339592#p339592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Wasn't sure if that was the read subarea or not. Let's continue that part of the discussion there.
A good start would be NOT loosing the confidence of those who have evangelized the product in the past. I don't understand why this isn't a given and a top priority.
JPWhite
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
I find that very puzzling also. If Nissan find themselves in a sea of anti-EV propaganda and actions, you'd think they would cling to those who have shown support and loyalty by buying their product *and* evangelize the product to those they meet.
Very very puzzling.
As out in left field as he is, Nissan should take stock of Jack Rickards comment at the beginning of the Phoenix battery problems. They should 'tuck us in at night', rather than commit corporate suicide.
TomT
Well-known member
+1
In the early days, I "sold" a lot of Leafs... I am much more careful and defined in my pitch these days...
In the early days, I "sold" a lot of Leafs... I am much more careful and defined in my pitch these days...
JPWhite said:
Boomer23
Well-known member
JPWhite said:
Having spent a day recently at a BMW meeting for the i3 launch with a group of BMW's customers who participated in the ActiveE and previous MiniE field trials, the difference is palpable between the customer vibe in that group and the vibe that is apparent among early LEAF buyers/leasers. There is a clear connection, and I would call it a friendship between some of these BMW early adopters and some of the BMW contact and customer care staff. They know each other on a first name basis, they've clearly met in person and online various times before, and there is a camaraderie and a feeling that they are all in this together. Even though the ActiveE has had and continues to have recurrent hardware and software issues that have taken the cars off the roads and left customers with loaner ICE cars for weeks at a time, and sometimes longer, the customer loyalty and camaraderie continues to flourish. My impression is that the BMW customers feel noticed, appreciated and listened to. Even if BMW doesn't and can't fix particular problems, there is two way communication and honest and sincere feedback in reasonable time frames.
One could say that it isn't surprising that customers in a field trial would experience better customer care than the average new car buyer. But really, why should that be true? After all, early LEAF buyers ponied up the full cash cost of the car, or entered into a multi-year purchase contract with Nissan. The BMW customers just agreed to a two year monthly lease for a vehicle that was still under development. So the Nissan customers were into the LEAF, a car with no track record, with both feet from the outset. It is clear from reading the pages of this forum that LEAF customer enthusiasm was massive from the start.
But Nissan fumbled the opportunity to leverage that enthusiasm into a mutual appreciation project that could have employed the enthusiastic early adopters as customer ambassadors. To me, it is clear that the missing piece in the Nissan/customer interaction was the lack of personal contact that could easily have been provided. Some readers will remember a Nissan employee who was a presence on this forum in the early days, before the first deliveries. But she suddenly went silent and was never replaced. There has been sporadic contact from high level Nissan staff, only when problems such as hot batteries arose, and never a reliable corporate face for the average LEAFer to relate to.
To be honest, there is still great enthusiasm here for the LEAF, and customers could still be great ambassadors, with the proper level of contact, clear information and feedback from Nissan, and customer support. From what I see in the BMW example, corporate contact staff don't need to be high level executives. They can be a range of staff from technical specialists through regional support staff and a few regional managers.
While I'm not surprised to see EV customers treated as average commodity customers by companies who sell compliance EVs, Nissan is in the EV business in a big way. As has been said over and over again, Nissan needs to nurture this early adopter base as a force to combat the anti-EV challenges that they face.
cwerdna
Well-known member
FWIW, re: the BMW customers, I remember hearing some very high lease amounts for the ActiveE. It was so high, that my reaction was "no way!" Long ago, when the Mini-E program was well underway, I think I heard a lease price too and thought people who'd go for it were nuts.Boomer23 said:
I know some folks here on MNL have leased one or both. Hope they can chime in on whether these figures are right and whether they included tax + other fees.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/14/half-of-mini-e-lessees-renew-for-another-year-price-dropped-to/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/01/17/bmw-delivers-first-u-s-activee-electric-vehicle/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe BMW knew that given the high lease prices and beta test nature of the cars, they had to provide a high level of customer service, despite some of the horrific reliability/downtime probs I've heard of w/the ActiveE (from multiple people). Or, the high lease cost let BMW budget more towards support?
cwerdna
Well-known member
FWIW, http://www.mynissanleaf.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9808" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; saysKJD said:
And, he could be visiting w/o logging in or using another handle...
Back to the whole subject of NDAs and various ideas being floated w/LAB members, I can kinda see why that's necessary. A post here from Nissan reps w/some details ends up causing a LOT of discussion and questions. And, often, it implies some sort of promise. As I said before, the NDA should let the Nissan reps be a lot more frank and open.
Them throwing out ideas here on MNL would frankly not be efficient for them, hence there are other mechanisms such as surveys, querying/meeting w/LAB members, etc.
walterbays
Well-known member
Good surveys maybe. Poor surveys, no. Like the survey that asked more or less, "Is it okay with you if your neighbor rents a battery?" And then concluded, "all Leaf drivers would rather rent replacement batteries than buy them."cwerdna said:
Talking with the LAB members is probably their best source of customer information, even though we're unlikely to ever find out about it here given NDAs and necessary competitive secrets. I suppose we'll be able to infer that they listened to LAB members when/if we see them doing some really smart things.
JPWhite
Well-known member
Boomer23 said:
Excellent point and a well crafted positing.
When I put my name on the waiting list for the LEAF I was somewhat surprised to hear in Dec 2010 that the first delivery had taken place, but the only communication I had received was boilerplate information via email. No personal touch. In fact my first response was an email informing me I had been turned down for the EVProject. (Subsequently that decision was reversed a few weeks later).
Tesla waiting list prospects get personal contact, often by phone. I was surprised Nissan didn't take a similar approach in order to try and convert prospects into customers, the sales lull of 2012 could possibly have been averted.
One would anticipate high-touch customer care for the launch of a totally new technology in an uncertain market. Certainly from a company that had bet the farm on the new product.
