LEAF completely unresponsive

[bthatfield]

When I got home last evening I still had about 25% of charge. I plugged it in to charge overnight and this morning it is completely unresponsive. One door is open so I can get in, but it is almost as if the battery is completely drained. That's my only guess.

I do know that the electricity went out last night because some clocks were blinking this morning, but that's my only clue.

Now this morning nothing responds at all - nothing inside lights up, the electric openers on the doors don't work (luckily the front door was unlocked) nothing.

Also, a VERY big problem is that the first thing I did was unplug it this morning and close the front charging door. How I can't even open that to try charging it. The front charging door release is electrical so if I hit the button nothing happens. I looked under the hood and cannot see where it releases.

The dealer doesn't have anyone to deal with it this weekend - they offered to tow it but I'd prefer at least finding a way to open the front charging door and at least give it try at charging it.

Any ideas?

 

[mwalsh]

Well, I'd start with the 12v battery. Get the hood open and check it with a voltmeter, if you have one.

BTW, if this ever happens again but with the doors locked, there is a manual key hidden inside the fob.

 

[derkraut]

I'll wager that the 12V battery is dead, probably because something was left on overnight (door or trunk light, maybe?). You can open the hood without electricity. check the 12V battery. If it's dead (and you don't have a charger), remove the battery and take it to an auto parts place like O'Reilly's and have it charged. I'd imagine that the power interruption during the night tripped off your charging sequence somehow (but it shouldn't have). The power interruption shouldn't have affected the charge state of your 12V battery.

 

[voganni]

12v battery, almost guaranteed. I wonder if the 12v battery can discharge thru the charging port into the EVSE if there's a power failure? On my 2013 S everything shuts off after a few minutes if you leave it on, like dome lights, headlights, etc.

A jump start or 12 amp or so battery charger would power it up too. You would want to get the 12v battery fully charged ASAP.

 

[surfingslovak]

I wonder if the 12v battery can discharge thru the charging port into the EVSE if there's a power failure?

While we don't know why exactly OP's auxiliary battery was affected, the scenario you described is unconceivable. What has been observed is that the 12V battery can discharge if the LEAF is left plugged in for several days but not charging through the J1772 port. This apparently happens because of an elevated vampire load from onboard electronics, which periodically wakes up to check the status of the port, and not because of a discharge through the EVSE. My understanding is that the high-voltage and low-voltage systems are galvanically separated.

 

[garygid]

Once you have the hood up, you can open the charge hatch
manually, as described in the 2013 Owner's Manual.

But, without enough voltage from the 12v Battery, there is
no way to get the electronics working to begin charging.

Certainly, your symptom is a "dead", or too-much discharged
12v Battery, so take care of that first.

Others have had trouble with the 12v Battery, and even had
it replaced under the warranty.

 

[bthatfield]

Ok so here's what I did.

First, yes, the 12V was dead. Why that would be I have absolutely no idea. Whenever I run the AC or anything when I'm not moving I always have it in READY mode (green car w/ arrows lit). I do that on purpose since that is supposed to keep the 12v battery charged.

So, who knows, but I did do some kind of strange stuff when I set it up to charge (like it was set on a wrong timer and I tried to change it when it was hooked up, and that didn't work so I went back and unplugged in and changed the timer and plugged it back in but I do remember hitting the button a couple of times to shut down and start so -- the main point is I could theoretically have done a bunch of stuff to put it in a weird mode. Then with the power surge (I now know it was a surge because it blew out some stuff in the neighborhood) who knows.

So, be that as it may, the dealer was going to just tow it to their place but I said to wait until Monday. So, after lots of reading I decided to jump start it. That worked fine - but man - step 4 in the jumper cables hookup sequence is REALLY hard to interpret the drawing because it's so tiny. Anyway, step 4 is to hook the final jumper cable to the engine block.

Anyway, I left it for a short while (like two minutes) and I could turn it on, open the front hatch and hook up the charger and start charging it. When I plugged in the charger it was in READY mode (although the green car w/ arrow symbol goes out when the charger is plugged in) and I left it that way thinking the 12v might be charged too. After a while I noticed the engine block AND the 12v were slightly warm to the touch so I interpreted that as the 12V was also charging.

Once the LI-ION battery was charged, then I just left the car in the READY state and left if there for a couple of hours (the manual says 20 mts to give the 12v enough charge but at that point I was paranoid about having the 12v low. ANyway, after about another two hours both the engine and the 12v were at room temp and I interpreted that as the 12v was charged. So far all going great!

Lessons learned:
I guess I need to buy a volt meter to check the 12v from time to time. Given how critical that is to the overall system I think it's CRAZY that there isn't an on board monitor of the 12v.
Don't try to do multiple things with the electronics. When in doubt, disconnect, turn off, and start over.
REALLY watch out for those weird modes - particularly ACC, which seems to happen when you turn off the car while having a foot on the brake. The fact that you can do that is just goofy in my opinion.
Have patience - we're all learning this new technology - including the dealers!

Thanks to everyone for your input! :mrgreen:

 

[surfingslovak]

Great report, good to hear! In terms of monitoring the auxiliary battery: just get an ELM327 bluetooth dongle and Turbo3's battery app. That should take care of that and many other things as well. The voltage is shown in the lower left corner.

 

[davewill]

... Once the LI-ION battery was charged, then I just left the car in the READY state and left if there for a couple of hours (the manual says 20 mts to give the 12v enough charge but at that point I was paranoid about having the 12v low. ...

This wasn't necessary. The 12v charges whenever the High Voltage contactor is closed. So the entire time the traction battery was charging, the 12v battery was as well.

Also, the warmth you felt was probably NOT from charging the 12v battery, but from charging the main battery. The charger for the traction battery produces quite a bit of heat, so much so that it's liquid cooled, there's a cooling pump that runs while the car is charging.

 

[rpmdk]

I left the lights on overnight in my 2011 LEAF Saturday and came out to a dead car Sunday. Once I realized it was the 12v battery I tried to jump start it with my ICE, it wouldn't let me put the car in READY mode, so I pulled out the battery and took it to auto zone to have it tested. I left it with them, and when I got back they said the battery was good to go. I put it back in the LEAF and I was back in business, but it gave me the message that I was in a very low charge state and directed me to the nearest charging station. I had about a block to drive home, but it shut down half way there. I still had the dashboard lights, but it wouldn't let me drive. I didn't know if it was charging the 12v or not. Eventually I just called Nissan and had it towed to the dealership where they trickle charged it. I guess the lesson here is buy a trickle charger for home and keep an eye on the 12v - it's far more important than I realized.

Does anyone know if the first batch of LEAFs treat a dead 12v battery differently than newer LEAFs? Could I have drove off in a 2012 after the jump start?

Do I understand correctly that if I had got it a half block further and plugged the car in then it would have charged the 12v?

 

[RegGuheert]

I left the lights on overnight in my 2011 LEAF Saturday and came out to a dead car Sunday.

Does anyone know if the first batch of LEAFs treat a dead 12v battery differently than newer LEAFs? Could I have drove off in a 2012 after the jump start?

It's not clear to me why you couldn't drive. I'm wondering why your lights drained your battery. Don't they automatically turn off after a while if the car is OFF? I'm thinking the car may have been left in READY mode. (You certainly wouldn't be the first person to do that!) In that case, the traction battery would have powered the lights until it drained and the main contactor opened. Then your 12V battery would have drained itself.

Do I understand correctly that if I had got it a half block further and plugged the car in then it would have charged the 12v?

Yes, that is correct. However, please note that the LEAF does not keep the voltage at 14.4 volts long enough to fully charge the 12V battery, instead dropping back to 13.1V at some point, which powers the systems and prevents discharge but does not charge the battery. (At least this is true for the 2011/2012s.). So it is probably a good idea to trickle charge your 12V battery after the traction battery completes its charge.

 

[rpmdk]

Just got back from the dealership. It seems I may have left the climate control on for 24 hours, draining both batteries. I would've thought the traction battery would be good for a couple days of AC, but I guess not. Also, a car that can text me to let me know I forgot to plug it in at home can't turn off the AC after sitting in the same spot for 24 and instead run the battery dry?

When I got it this morning it had an estimated range of 129 miles. The most I have ever seen. 20 miles later I'm at 68, about where it should be. Hoping this weekend's slow drain doesn't hurry along the loss of my first bar.

 

[Nubo]

Keep in mind that once a conventional 12V lead-acid battery is run flat, its capacity and longevity are impacted, sometimes profoundly. Given the LEAF's tendency towards 12V battery abuse, it's something to keep in mind. I'd suggest to have it "load tested"; the dealership can do that or you can have it done for free at some parts stores. I've played nursemaid to enough dying batteries in my time. Used to park my cars on hills so I could coast in neutral and pop the clutch to get them started. :lol:

Unfortunately we don't have that luxury in the LEAF. It's got a bootstrap problem. I've read that the EV1 had an analog though, that would allow you to "jump" the 12V via the traction battery and converter. Seems like that should be a standard feature on EVs.

 

[planet4ever]

Just got back from the dealership. It seems I may have left the climate control on for 24 hours, draining both batteries. I would've thought the traction battery would be good for a couple days of AC, but I guess not.

The AC won't run without the car being turned on (actually, in READY mode). Just leaving the car turned on for 24 hours (without the AC) uses 3 to 4 kWh. This nominally comes from the 12v battery, but has to be replenished through the DC/DC converter from the traction battery. The DC/DC converter creates heat which means a) it wastes energy itself and b) the liquid cooling system has to run, which uses more energy for its pump and the radiator fan.

Also, a car that can text me to let me know I forgot to plug it in at home can't turn off the AC after sitting in the same spot for 24 and instead run the battery dry?

Yeah, that would be a nice enhancement, wouldn't it?

When I got it this morning it had an estimated range of 129 miles. The most I have ever seen. 20 miles later I'm at 68, about where it should be. Hoping this weekend's slow drain doesn't hurry along the loss of my first bar.

Please ignore the GuessOMeter. It is not going to tell you anything useful about your battery's capacity.

Ray

 

[rpmdk]

I still don't know how the car got left on. In over two years of driving that has never happened before. I was in a hurry, so I must have rushed off without realizing it hadn't shut down. Amazing that the first time it happens I parked a block away and left it for 24 hours.

I will have to keep a close eye on the 12v battery now.

As for the 129 mile range, I mention that mostly for amusement.

 

[johnrhansen]

I wish they's just replace the miles to go gauge with the GID reading everyone talks about.

 

[surfingslovak]

I wish they's just replace the miles to go gauge with the GID reading everyone talks about.

I'm not sure if that would be such a geat idea. If you divided available GIDs by 3.28, you would get something akin to 'ideal miles' Tesla used on the Roadster. Everyone understood that ideal miles were just that, an estimate under a certain set of driving conditions. The suggested factor would return 84 miles on a new fully charged battery. That's the EPA rating on a full charge. The low battery warning would always be triggered at 14 ideal miles (49 GID) and the very low warning at 6 miles remaining. The 'guessed miles' Nissan uses seem to confuse everyone to no end, especially new owners. They all seem to take them literally too. It's a disaster. It's not a good or intuitive design.

 

[nosuchthing]

The car was powered up to run AC. It means that when you closed the door it yelped at you, advising you of the fact.

I totally hear it when it happens to me once in the while. I have my ear trained to this sound by now.

 

[rpmdk]

I'll have to tune my ears into that.

 

[neunsechszwo]

Once you have the hood up, you can open the charge hatch
manually, as described in the 2013 Owner's Manual.

I was approximately at the low battery warning last night when I parked at home, and this morning the 12V battery (for whichever reason) barely had enough power to unlock the doors. Once inside it didn't seem able to detect the key, and then a couple moments later it was too late to pop the charge hatch once I thought of it.

The only thing I found in the manual was how to turn the philips/flathead screw to release the charge connector lock, in case the car won't release the J1772 connector—I couldn't find anything about releasing the hatch.

So if that procedure exists, it would help to document it here, for whoever does the same google query I was doing this morning trying to find the info

But anyway, was luckily able to maneuver our other car parallel and connect them with jumper cables. Once the LEAF was switched on everything was fine.

However maybe someone could say whether you can even start charging the car without proper 12V voltage. So perhaps it's moot. If I can't move the car tomorrow though (it's now blocking the other car... maybe I should get it out of the way just in case) I will be asking a friend to bring over his trickle/fast charger.