Leaf experience at Auto Expo over weekend

[blueblob06]

Hi all. I wanted to share the experience I had at the Cincinnati Auto Expo over the weekend because it wasn't what I expected. Nissan had a Leaf there (pretty much every car company have every model they're selling in 2013 there). There wasn't really any signage or anything fancy near the Leaf (a lot of cars had displays to catch your eye) but there was a Nissan rep standing next to the Leaf most of the time I was in the area.

I think I know much more about the Leaf than the average person, nowhere near what a lot of you guys know but I researched the car a lot and have read a lot of threads here about the car. I started talking to the Nissan rep, who told me that he's from a local dealership in Cincinnati, here's some of the things he said that I wasn't expecting...
(Mind you I know most of the answers to these questions, really just wanted to see what he'd say and how he'd spin things)

1 - Asked what kind of range I can expect on a charge...he said some crazy number like 122 miles and I laughed and said that I believe that is wrong. He pointed to the sticker and the MPGe number which we all know is NOT the range on a full charge. We went back and forth on this for a few minutes and then I said, "okay fine, well let's say I fully charge this car and go on the highway until it's at 0%, how far will it go?". He said it'd go over 100 miles! Is this just crazy or am I over-reacting here? I was offended for the sake of Leaf fans that he seemed to be telling people that this is the range for this car.

2 - I asked if more people are buying or leasing Leafs from his dealership. He said most people are buying them. Again not what I was expecting and not what I've read on here.

3 - I asked him how he thinks the 2013s will sell at his dealership (it's a very large dealership) and he said people are beating down his door trying to get a Leaf from him as soon as he gets 2013s. This seemed like complete BS as the same couple of Leafs have sat in Cincinnati Nissan lots for months when I've checked. I've seen a Leaf a total of 3 times on the streets of Cincinnati, we are a fairly conservative place in many ways and definitely when it comes to EVs. When I asked him how many 2012s he sold, he said 8 to 10. So he didn't even sell 1 a month the past year but somehow people are begging him to sell them one this year? Guessing this was just car salesman talk.

I love the Leaf and still plan to get one, still saving up. Just wanted to share this, I was disappointed with what this guy was telling me (mostly just about point 1 above) and I'm guessing he was telling everyone else the same thing, if they asked.

 

[Randy]

Too bad you couldn't point out the "Driving Range" bar graph (that says 75 miles) under the 116 mpge number on the window sticker...

 

[RegGuheert]

When you do get a LEAF, you may want to purchase it from a different dealership!

FYI, my dealership is in a rural community and I think they sold/leased more 2012s than the huge dealership you spoke with. Perhaps that is because they know something about the car now and tell people the truth about it.

 

[adric22]

I can't say I'm shocked.. I wish I could.

 

[blueblob06]

Too bad you couldn't point out the "Driving Range" bar graph (that says 75 miles) under the 116 mpge number on the window sticker...

Ha, actually, I did point to it! Sorry, forgot this gem, his response was "well that is how much it gets on a 4 hour charge"!!! That was when I gave up on that topic and started asking about his dealerships' sales. Ridiculous.

RegGuheert, I was planning to eventually buy from that particular dealership because it's much closer to me than the other Nissans in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky. But, you're right, I'm probably not going to now.

 

[TomT]

Unfortunately, Nissan and the dealers have proven themselves quite adept at shooting themselves in the foot with such misleading (and often out-right lying) numbers and "facts."
They don't need so-called oil company propaganda to create issues in the EV community: they are far batter at it themselves with crap like that!

They have forgotten the cardinal rule: Under promise and over deliver!

1 - Asked what kind of range I can expect on a charge...he said some crazy number like 122 miles and I laughed and said that I believe that is wrong.

 

[timhebb]

This unfortunately typical experience illustrates one of the problems with the "independent dealership" sales model that is woven into law in this country. It would be great if the model can be broken once and for all.

Tesla is trying and, so far, seem to be holding their own legally. But it seems it will be much more difficult for traditional auto manufacturers like Nissan to break free from the mold. Nissan doesn't really seem to be making any effort to do so, and the LEAF is suffering for it.

I'm no expert on the situation, or the laws that maintain the status quo, but it's pretty clear they need to be changed and new sales channels permitted, particularly in the light of paradigm-shifting vehicles like the LEAF. Car salesmen do a bad enough job representing ICE vehicles with integrity and accuracy; with EVs they are totally out of their depth.

 

[kovalb]

This unfortunately typical experience illustrates one of the problems with the "independent dealership" sales model that is woven into law in this country. It would be great if the model can be broken once and for all.

+1
Auto companies and their dealers are two completely separate entities. Auto companies have to be very careful when dealing with their dealers or they can trip over state laws and get sued. However I do know that Nissan has training programs in place for the LEAF, and I believe there is supposed to be at least one LEAF certified salesman at each dealer. I am guessing these are Nissan recommendations since they really can't force their dealers to do anything.

 

[thankyouOB]

i am shocked to hear that auto dealerships have not changed their ways when the customer is interested in buying a LEAF.

truth and car dealers intersect in a random sequence.

 

[Herm]

You know there is a grain of truth in what he told you.. car salesmen, journalists, AGW advocates, lawyers, politicians and advertisers know how far they can go

 

[cwerdna]

Ridiculous indeed.

It's still very disheartening to hear range BS still being spread. I posted at poll on what the "proper" # should be at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; based on encounters Tony Williams and I each had at different auto shows.

I understand wanting to give a high # to make the car seem competitive/useful and as a hook, but boy, if people believe that BS, they will be really unhappy buyers/lessees, esp. in the winter.

 

[Bazooka]

These stories don't surprise me in the least, based on my own shopping experience here in the Rochester (NY) area. I talked to people at 4 different Nissan dealers, all with Leafs on the lot, and they were beyond clueless. I am quite sure that not one of them knew as much about the car or their own pricing as I did. On that last point, the pricing, I was astonished that dealers had big discounts on the cars on their web sites for weeks, and when I asked about them in person they told me those discounts didn't exist and they had no idea what I was talking about. When I insisted the details were on their web site they refused to look(!?).

Another guy couldn't get beyond saying "And it doesn't take gas!", and yet another insisted that the Leaf was the only car on the market that used a lithium battery. I was tempted to start asking these guys technical questions, just to toy with them, but had I gone down that road my wife (who was with me on all visits) would have been conspicuously displeased.

I've been researching and writing about energy and environmental issues for a decade, and it never occurred to me that a major stumbling block for EVs in the US would be horrible sales support. Yikes!

 

[LEAFfan]

Hi all. I wanted to share the experience I had at the Cincinnati Auto Expo over the weekend because it wasn't what I expected. Nissan had a Leaf there (pretty much every car company have every model they're selling in 2013 there). There wasn't really any signage or anything fancy near the Leaf (a lot of cars had displays to catch your eye) but there was a Nissan rep standing next to the Leaf most of the time I was in the area.

I think I know much more about the Leaf than the average person, nowhere near what a lot of you guys know but I researched the car a lot and have read a lot of threads here about the car. I started talking to the Nissan rep, who told me that he's from a local dealership in Cincinnati, here's some of the things he said that I wasn't expecting...
(Mind you I know most of the answers to these questions, really just wanted to see what he'd say and how he'd spin things)

1 - Asked what kind of range I can expect on a charge...he said some crazy number like 122 miles and I laughed and said that I believe that is wrong. He pointed to the sticker and the MPGe number which we all know is NOT the range on a full charge. We went back and forth on this for a few minutes and then I said, "okay fine, well let's say I fully charge this car and go on the highway until it's at 0%, how far will it go?". He said it'd go over 100 miles! Is this just crazy or am I over-reacting here? I was offended for the sake of Leaf fans that he seemed to be telling people that this is the range for this car.

2 - I asked if more people are buying or leasing Leafs from his dealership. He said most people are buying them. Again not what I was expecting and not what I've read on here.

3 - I asked him how he thinks the 2013s will sell at his dealership (it's a very large dealership) and he said people are beating down his door trying to get a Leaf from him as soon as he gets 2013s. This seemed like complete BS as the same couple of Leafs have sat in Cincinnati Nissan lots for months when I've checked. I've seen a Leaf a total of 3 times on the streets of Cincinnati, we are a fairly conservative place in many ways and definitely when it comes to EVs. When I asked him how many 2012s he sold, he said 8 to 10. So he didn't even sell 1 a month the past year but somehow people are begging him to sell them one this year? Guessing this was just car salesman talk.

I love the Leaf and still plan to get one, still saving up. Just wanted to share this, I was disappointed with what this guy was telling me (mostly just about point 1 above) and I'm guessing he was telling everyone else the same thing, if they asked.

On how far it will go on the highway depends on speed and driving conditions. Yes, it can go 100 miles at 50-55mph, but definitely not at 65mph. On a 23 mile trip (all freeway) the other day I had 23% left (meter) when I began and had 6% left (1.4% is Turtle) . I drove 55mph to start (56 on my car) and hit 6.0 m/kW h on the dash. With about 5 miles to go, I sped up to 60 and still ended at 5.8m/kW h when I reached the charging station.

 

[tcherniaev]

It is amazing to me that there are laws to protect dealers, but there are no laws to protect consumers from lies told by dealers.

 

[TomT]

In the dictionary, under "Lies", it has a picture of a politician, an attorney, and an auto dealer to illustrate the definition...

It is amazing to me that there are laws to protect dealers, but there are no laws to protect consumers from lies told by dealers.

 

[kikbuti]

I bought my Leaf from that northeast Cincinnati dealer that had the Black Leaf SL at the Cincinnati Auto Expo. I had been talking to that saleman for more than a year. He invited me to come to the Expo. He is the Leaf specialist there and he is always busy with two or three customers while the other salespeople are standing around. I would assume that you talked to someone else while he was busy.

I do know that this particular dealer has sold every Leaf that they get and dealer trade for quite a few. Many dealers will only dealer trade a Leaf when they get a Leaf in return. As I said, I have been looking at them for more than a year and at more than one dealer. I used to work for the owners of one of the other Cincinnati Nissan dealers and went to high school with one of the others.

The salesperson did not mislead me on range or anything else and was very knowledgeable. They do not have Leaf demo vehicles so it is nearly impossible to become a subject matter expert unless you are driving one. He did not know about the EVSE Upgrade, for example. He didn't know much about EVSE options other than what Nissan provided with the overpriced model from Aero.

I push back on the disdain for auto dealerships. Yes, it's the old horse trading businsess. They provide a valuable service showing you what they have to sell, getting rid of your trade-in.. negotiating the price (becasue YOU'RE NOT HAPPY with the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.) Just put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

 

[blueblob06]

I bought my Leaf from that northeast Cincinnati dealer that had the Black Leaf SL at the Cincinnati Auto Expo. I had been talking to that saleman for more than a year. He invited me to come to the Expo. He is the Leaf specialist there and he is always busy with two or three customers while the other salespeople are standing around. I would assume that you talked to someone else while he was busy.

I do know that this particular dealer has sold every Leaf that they get and dealer trade for quite a few. Many dealers will only dealer trade a Leaf when they get a Leaf in return. As I said, I have been looking at them for more than a year and at more than one dealer. I used to work for the owners of one of the other Cincinnati Nissan dealers and went to high school with one of the others.

The salesperson did not mislead me on range or anything else and was very knowledgeable. They do not have Leaf demo vehicles so it is nearly impossible to become a subject matter expert unless you are driving one. He did not know about the EVSE Upgrade, for example. He didn't know much about EVSE options other than what Nissan provided with the overpriced model from Aero.

I push back on the disdain for auto dealerships. Yes, it's the old horse trading businsess. They provide a valuable service showing you what they have to sell, getting rid of your trade-in.. negotiating the price (becasue YOU'RE NOT HAPPY with the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.) Just put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

I'll put on my big boy pants; thanks for the great advice. Sorry to complain about a Leaf experience on a Leaf chatboard.

I'm guessing we weren't talking to the same person. Otherwise, he didn't think I knew anything about the car and was making up whatever he wanted; I don't know.