Leaf got laughed at last night

[daggad]

Here in Norway all electric cars have a licence plate starting with "EL". (EL will give you free parking, taxes, vat, ferries..etc, but thats another story)

But this "EL" makes them easily reconizable in public. Do you have some kind of common..what should I call it...mark on electrics in USA ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here in Norway all electric cars have a licence plate starting with "EL". (EL will give you free parking, taxes, vat, ferries..etc, but thats another story)

But this "EL" makes them easily reconizable in public. Do you have some kind of common..what should I call it...mark on electrics in USA ?

Much like individual states, like Norway, in Europe (yes, I know Norway is not European Union), each individual USA state has it's own rules concerning electric cars.

Arizona, for instance, has a special license plate that identifies it as an electric. California how zero emission "HOV" car pool lane stickers (really ugly) for the rear of the car.

There are 48 other states in the USA.

 

[LEAFfan]

Do you have some kind of common..what should I call it...mark on electrics in USA ?

In AZ, we have a 'blue plate' that starts with 'AF' for Alternative Fuel. So this plate isn't just for electrics, but any dedicated alternative-fueled vehicle such as CNG, H2, Solar, Propane, etc. The only two benefits with this plate is access to the HOV lanes with only one person and a HUGE savings ($12 vs. $500) every year on registration.

 

[JPWhite]

I especially like to leave vehicles standing on rainy days, the instant torque coupled with traction control is awesome!!

Nobody has challenged me to a drag yet, tho another LEAF and I had fun Saturday weaving in and out of slow traffic and leaving them for dead. One can pass/change lanes effortlessly in the LEAF, just need to be double dog sure of your surroundings.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Just to put a finer point on it: when people talk about EVs having the torque available "instantly," they often forget to tell you that some EVs just don't have a lot of torque. Hubmotors, which are mainly used in bikes and scooters but sometimes in cars, are notorious for having low torque unless they have internal gearing. If I want to win a drag race in my ZEV 5000 scooter, I have to look for a 125cc scooter to race. Or, better still, 50cc. ;-)
My old Oxygen Lepton scooter, OTOH, would scream all the way up to its top speed of 28MPH. People actually thought it was going 40 when they saw it in action. It used a geared reduction (by way of chain) to produce a ton of torque instead of speed.

It's really nice finally having an EV with both torque *and* speed!

 

[LeftieBiker]

I especially like to leave vehicles standing on rainy days, the instant torque coupled with traction control is awesome!!

Nobody has challenged me to a drag yet, tho another LEAF and I had fun Saturday weaving in and out of slow traffic and leaving them for dead. One can pass/change lanes effortlessly in the LEAF, just need to be double dog sure of your surroundings.

It really isn't a good idea to do that. People hate motorcycles for weaving through traffic, and it's justified. Doing it in a two ton vehicle is, to put it mildly, unwise.

 

[TimLee]

For a bit of a reality check, I looked up Road & Track's test results. They clocked the Leaf at 6.7 seconds 0-50 which is 0.3 slower than the Volt and... slower than just about everything else that they tested except the Smart car, the Civic Hybrid, and the CRV. That said, I have noticed that I routinely pull away from a stop much more quickly than an ICE car without even trying.

The OP beat the 71 - 73 mustang to 50 mph because they spun the tires.
The 2011 LEAF will substantially beat most ICE drivers to 30 mph.
My wife driving a 2009 4 cylinder Altima challenged me in the 2011 LEAF from a standing start at a stop light through a left turn and up an on ramp.
Even though I was on the outside and had the longer travel path, and she had the CVT Altima at high rpm the whole way, the LEAF beat the Altima to 30 mph by about a car length. Not quite enough to safely lane change in front of her.
But by 50 mph the Altima had pulled ahead of the LEAF by at least 1/2 a car length.
2011 LEAF is great to 30 mph though, and often surprises ICE drivers, and even motorcycle drivers. 2013 LEAF has a bit lower torque, but still excellent to 30 mph.
But the 2011 LEAF will not beat most determined ICE drivers to 50 mph. Only those that spin the tires or that aren't trying very hard, or that give up because the LEAF is a car length or more ahead at 30 mph.

 

[Publius]

Here in Norway all electric cars have a licence plate starting with "EL". (EL will give you free parking, taxes, vat, ferries..etc, but thats another story)

But this "EL" makes them easily reconizable in public. Do you have some kind of common..what should I call it...mark on electrics in USA ?

Nothing in NY.

 

[TomT]

One word: Stupid!

I especially like to leave vehicles standing on rainy days, the instant torque coupled with traction control is awesome!!
Nobody has challenged me to a drag yet, tho another LEAF and I had fun Saturday weaving in and out of slow traffic and leaving them for dead. One can pass/change lanes effortlessly in the LEAF, just need to be double dog sure of your surroundings.

 

[TomT]

Just to point out a few things...

1) If the traction control on the Leaf was decent, this wouldn't happen. It is more the result of poor software.
2) Front wheel drive cars have inherently poor traction on acceleration. You can do the same thing on many of them with TC off. This is one of the reasons you see no front wheel drive race cars or dragsters...
3) The LRR tires are somewhat grip deficient which enhances the problem.

Speaking of rolling starts....it thrills me to be able to spin the front tires if I stomp on it when I'm already rolling, even with the TC on. This is the first car I've had that I've been able to do that.

 

[LeftieBiker]

As long as the traction control works to get the car through snow, ice and rain, the bit of wheelspin it allows is ok with me. I suspect they programmed it that way on purpose. You want perfect traction control? Drive a current generation Prius: the TC, which exists only to protect the thin axles from breaking, not to help the driver, will limit wheelspin to the point where the car *won't move* on ice. And you can't turn it off with a switch - it requires a complicated sequence of control inputs that most of us can't remember, or even get right if we have them written down. Nope, I have no problem at all with the Leaf in that regard...

 

[RonDawg]

2) Front wheel drive cars have inherently poor traction on acceleration. You can do the same thing on many of them with TC off. This is one of the reasons you see no front wheel drive race cars or dragsters...

Eh...not quite true. It may not have its own league similar in scale to NASCAR or F1, but there are FWD racing vehicles out there.

The Toyota Grand Prix's Celebrity Race for many years used FWD, since they used Celicas (which were FWD after MY 1985) and when that model was discontinued, Scions. They finally went back to RWD this year with the "Toyobaru" Scion FRS.

Some Honda enthusiasts also road race and drag race Civics and Integras. I've even seen some Focii being used for amateur racing.

 

[TomT]

OK, maybe I should have said MOST real race, drag or sports type cars... In any event, the gist is still that FWD cars have poor traction under acceleration compared to RWD cars due to the laws of physics..

2) Front wheel drive cars have inherently poor traction on acceleration. You can do the same thing on many of them with TC off. This is one of the reasons you see no front wheel drive race cars or dragsters...

Eh...not quite true. It may not have its own league similar in scale to NASCAR or F1, but there are FWD racing vehicles out there.
The Toyota Grand Prix's Celebrity Race for many years used FWD, since they used Celicas (which were FWD after MY 1985) and when that model was discontinued, Scions. They finally went back to RWD this year with the "Toyobaru" Scion FRS. Some Honda enthusiasts also road race and drag race Civics and Integras. I've even seen some Focii being used for amateur racing.

 

[TomT]

Hardly MY definition of perfect traction control... Try something like a BMW for a much better example of how it should be done...

You want perfect traction control? Drive a current generation Prius: the TC, which exists only to protect the thin axles from breaking, not to help the driver, will limit wheelspin to the point where the car *won't move* on ice. And you can't turn it off with a switch - it requires a complicated sequence of control inputs that most of us can't remember, or even get right if we have them written down.

 

[ebill3]

OK, maybe I should have said MOST real race, drag or sports type cars... In any event, the gist is still that FWD cars have poor traction under acceleration compared to RWD cars due to the laws of physics..

Agree. Let's add to that and say that most premium luxury automobiles are RWD. Wonder why.

I have never cared for FWD, even though I am not a performance or luxury car person.

 

[ebill3]

Sorry,dupe.

 

[RonDawg]

In any event, the gist is still that FWD cars have poor traction under acceleration compared to RWD cars due to the laws of physics..

Oh I agree, but you'll be surprised what people will race. Look hard enough and you'll probably find people racing old Yugos.

FWD drag racing surprises me the most...you'd think they'd do little but turn tires back into elemental carbon, but they seem to get decent 1/4 mile times with them, somehow...

 

[JPWhite]

I have never cared for FWD, even though I am not a performance or luxury car person.

I have found FWD drive vehicles much easier to control in snow and have always preferred them for this reason. Now that I live in Tennessee its less of an advantage since it snows so little here. It rains plenty here and FWD eliminates fishtailing under hard acceleration in the wet. The LEAF's traction control is pretty impressive on slick roads, I found it superior to other traction control systems I have experience with.

 

[TomT]

The reason why most enthusiasts prefer RWD is that it spreads the loads of the car across all four tires giving better balance and control. In a rear wheel drive car the rear wheels do the pushing while the front wheels are reserved for the steering duties. In front wheel drive cars the front tires must perform both functions. Each front tire in a front wheel drive car must do two tasks. Both the cornering forces and the engine acceleration/deceleration forces in a front drive car act on the same tire. However, as you said, in marginal traction situations like snow and ice, the front-heavy weight bias of FWD can be an advantage...

I have found FWD drive vehicles much easier to control in snow and have always preferred them for this reason. Now that I live in Tennessee its less of an advantage since it snows so little here. It rains plenty here and FWD eliminates fishtailing under hard acceleration in the wet. The LEAF's traction control is pretty impressive on slick roads, I found it superior to other traction control systems I have experience with.

 

[ebill3]

However, as you said, in marginal traction situations like snow and ice, the front-heavy weight bias of FWD can be an advantage...

Yes, but not very good going uphill in snow or ice. I recall one rare winter storm where the only way to get up our long and rather steep driveway was to back up the Honda Accord. That really put the weight on the driving wheels.