Leaf or Bolt?

[eatsleafsandshoots]

Hi, Leafers!

I'm trading up out of my 2017 Nissan Leaf after I found that Carvana would pay me more than what I paid for it new (thanks, Colorado state tax credit!), and I want another great deal. In Colorado, we don't get the same incentives or model availability that you lucky Californians do, so I've narrowed it down to...

* 2019 Chevy Bolt LT w/ Comfort, DC I, and DCFC. They're offering $10k off MSRP, and minus my state tax credit and partial federal tax credit, it would end up being $21,380 + sales tax and handling.
* 2019 Nissan Leaf SV w/ All Weather. They're offering $13.5k off MSRP (including state tax credit taken at point of purchase for Nissan, dealer discount, and Nissan/utility discount) and of course the full federal tax credit. It would end up being $13,395 + sales tax and handling.

The Bolt is awesome, coming from a Leaf. Firmer handling, faster, better infotainment, and of course much longer range with CCS support that allows me to unlock the full power of the Electrify America network. Plus I can get it in Shock, an insane color that I totally love. Now, I don't \*need\* the extra range... but it would be pretty cool to turn day trips into EVentures instead of relying on my gas truck. The lack of ACC is kind of a big deal for me, I commute \~60 miles round trip, about half in stop-and-go traffic... but DAT REGEN is f\*\*\*ing amazing. L mode + regen paddle made me grin from ear to ear. However, my wife is not a big fan of the cloth seats - the leather ones feel better to her, but the Premier just takes the car out of my price range.

The Leaf is pretty cool too. To start, I \*love\* my 2017 S, it's been completely problem free over 50k miles and still gives me real-world 100mi range. This SV just perfects what I love about the S - better steering wheel with heat, hybrid heater, more power/range than the 2017 (though less than the Bolt), Android Auto, and app connectivity (that frustratingly doesn't work at my house due to lack of AT&T service). Plus, ACC - **** yeah. It's not exciting, it's just damn good - but the lack of battery cooling, CHAdeMO (CCS is starting to take over in my area), and still sticking with a small battery gives me pause.

**So what would you do, Leafers?** Obviously the answer is "pick what you like and can afford". I can *afford* either, but getting a good deal on cars brings real, enduring happiness to me and since I can't get sizzling CA/New England Bolt deals, it does give me pause. The Leaf is so cheap that, if I wanted to, I could sell it in 1-2 years and likely get what I paid for it according to Carvana - not so for the Bolt, where I'd lose a few thousand bucks (just looking at what 1 year old models with 22k miles cost). Then again, the Bolt is probably the better car - except for that damned lack of ACC.

Ramblings, input, hatred, feedback appreciated,

 

[LeftieBiker]

I thought we already had a topic on this, but I can't find it, so...

Significant shortcomings, even when not major, tend to grow in annoyance value over years. If you really want ACC, get the Leaf - and remember the All Weather Package! If you really like the Bolt a lot more and just like the Leaf on paper, get the Bolt.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I think it will depend on what you want for the car. If this is for driving around/ 2nd car then I would go for the amazing 13k deal with the Leaf. If you have any intention to drive to CA, the Midwest or anywhere else you need the Bolt or a Leaf + .

We are all hoping for better reliability of the EA network for both ccs and Chademo. Evgo’s new stations coming should help the overall network as well.

 

[goldbrick]

Is the $13.5k before the federal tax credit? And how much was Carvana willing to give you for a 2017 S? Please PM me the details if you don't want to post it all publicly.

I have a 2017 S as well with 13.5k miles and I've toyed with the idea of getting a newer Leaf. If I could get a deal like this I might just jump at it.

And personally, I'd get another Leaf. But that's just me as if I'm doing a road trip I need more room than either a Leaf or Bolt can provide.

 

[eatsleafsandshoots]

Carvana is offering $10,020 for my hail damaged Leaf, and that price is post tax credit. That would be quite a deal if it weren't, lol.

Just learned it may be 14.4 due to a discount that won't stack. Still good tho.

 

[goldbrick]

Thanks. So bottom line is about $4k to update from the 2017 S to the 2019 SV, ignoring taxes, registrations, etc etc, ? That's about what I was seeing before. If it would mean some non-EV driver would pick up an EV I'd probably do it. Or at least that's my newest justification for a new car that I don't really need.

 

[eatsleafsandshoots]

Now they're saying it will stack. Guess I'll find out when I go to buy on Thursday.

$3-4k before taxes and everything seems like a steal to get 33 percent more range, more power, auto headlights, Android Auto, reset warranty, ACC....

 

[Evoforce]

Get the Bolt! Are you kidding? My son has a Bolt. It is a much better car. Good luck!

 

[eatsleafsandshoots]

In some ways it's better... It's also far more expensive and doesn't have ACC or ProPilot available. At least in CO, dealers are stuck at around $8-10k off MSRP even with the smaller fed rebate, and the upper end of that value requires some weird financing deals.

 

[Evoforce]

In some ways it's better... It's also far more expensive and doesn't have ACC or ProPilot available. At least in CO, dealers are stuck at around $8-10k off MSRP even with the smaller fed rebate, and the upper end of that value requires some weird financing deals.

Bolt battery will last longer and the vehicle will have a lot less depreciation in the near term. You also mentioned some of the other positives. There are good reasons why the Leaf is cheaper. I can give you my sons info or/and you can talk to cwerda on this forum for more info. He also owns one.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't see the Leaf battery deteriorating fast in Denver. He will likely turn the car in or sell it before that becomes an issue. Acceleration and great handling come into play for maybe 20% of a typical drive, while comfort is an issue more like 90% of the time.

 

[Evoforce]

I don't see the Leaf battery deteriorating fast in Denver. He will likely turn the car in or sell it before that becomes an issue. Acceleration and great handling come into play for maybe 20% of a typical drive, while comfort is an issue more like 90% of the time.

Faster depreciation will become an issue as soon as he buys it. There are reasons why it is cheaper. No matter where he lives its value will be determined and will reflect the degraded value of poor battery performance in other climates. And it will still degrade faster than the Bolt. Also charging stations that are rolling out are barely accommodating chademo. Bolt is also worlds better at longer range driving. If you plan on a longer distance trip once in a while, do not buy a fat battery town car like the Leaf. Resale of the Bolt is also better because it appeals to a larger market of buyers who want more than a fat battery grocery getter. I do find my Leafs comfortable. My son is a former Leaf owner, as well, and liked its comfort and is equally pleased with the Bolts comfort.The Bolt does feel slightly smaller but all of the other attributes far make up for that over the Leaf.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Faster depreciation will become an issue as soon as he buys it. There are reasons why it is cheaper. No matter where he lives its value will be determined and will reflect the degraded value of poor battery performance in other climates.

I don't think that this is entirely true. If Leafs aren't as common as flies in Denver, then a used leaf with a good battery will command a good resale price, if in excellent shape and sold privately. Book prices are more an issue when there is a lot of used stock up for sale.

 

[eatsleafsandshoots]

Carvana disagrees that the Bolt is worth considerably more actually, and they're the folks buying my hail damaged 2017 S with 50k miles on it for 10k.

A 2018 Bolt LT with most packages and 22k miles is worth about $21.5k. A 2018 SV with Tech pkg and same mileage is with about $20.5k to Carvana, even though to me the Leaf is about 5-6k less expensive in my situation. I think cheap California Bolts have hurt national resale value.

Honestly seeing that I could make money by flipping the Leaf in a year makes me want it.

 

[cwerdna]

Carvana disagrees that the Bolt is worth considerably more actually, and they're the folks buying my hail damaged 2017 S with 50k miles on it for 10k.

A 2018 Bolt LT with most packages and 22k miles is worth about $21.5k. A 2018 SV with Tech pkg and same mileage is with about $20.5k to Carvana, even though to me the Leaf is about 5-6k less expensive in my situation. I think cheap California Bolts have hurt national resale value.

Currently here in Nor Cal, https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/VehicleDetails/new-2019-Chevrolet-Bolt_EV-5dr_Wgn_LT-Fremont-CA/3462023003 has a new '19 Bolt LT with DC FC inlet, driver confidence, driver confidence II and comfort and convenience packages. This is basically as as high you can go on LT w/o paying for certain colors or getting junk like packages w/other floor mats. MSRP is $39,790 and it's being openly advertised for $30,290 before $3750 tax credit.

I'd quickly gone thru https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/VehicleSearchResults?model=Bolt%20EV&sort=salePrice%7Casc&search=new&trim=5dr%20Wgn%20LT.

For those w/low enough income, they can collect another $2500 (CVRP) from CA.

 

[eatsleafsandshoots]

I guess that's my point, even with those discounts the Leaf retains more of what I pay net over a year or two. Mostly because I pay quite a bit less for it to start.

 

[countryleaf]

Well, we test drove a Bolt today. It was fine, we liked the car. It had heated rear seats that the Leaf does not have, it had similar camera views and similar lane control as the Leaf, the trunk area is a bit smaller, it does not have the heat pump heat (!). The price was similar to the Leaf except they are offering a $5,500 manufacturers rebate. But that is at 6.99% APR. If you go to the 0% APR (which, I believe, we qualify for), the rebate is cut to $1,000. It would take 38 months to pay $4,500 in interest (with our down payment) I believe we are going to stick with the Leaf for our new car. We live in Western Washington and do not have the heat issues on the battery that others may have in warmer climates.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Does the bolt let you take your hands off the wheel for a while like pro pilot and the Tesla? Just curious. I do hear very good things about the bolt range, and in the same breath have been very happy with the range of my Plus.

It’s sitting in the garage right now at 71% and 208 miles on the GOM.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Does the Bolt let you take your hands off the wheel for a while like pro pilot and the Tesla?

Most cars will let you take your hands off the wheel for as long as you like. The question is what cars will try to steer themselves when you do. I don't think an un-optioned LT will warn you, while I think that a Bolt with the driver enhancements will do just that - warn you.

 

[countryleaf]

Does the Bolt let you take your hands off the wheel for a while like pro pilot and the Tesla?

Most cars will let you take your hands off the wheel for as long as you like. The question is what cars will try to steer themselves when you do. I don't think an un-optioned LT will warn you, while I think that a Bolt with the driver enhancements will do just that - warn you.

I did not try taking my hands off the wheel like I did when test driving the Leaf (it drove around a sweeping curve on the freeway). It did not feel like it had that much control, although I did feel the nudging as I (on purpose) drifted toward the side of the lane.