Leaf S charge timer is only "end time"?

[caSteve]

New owner here, thanks for the useful forum.

My car is the bottom level Leaf S, without a navigation system. Do I understand correctly that the charge timer on this car can only be used to set the "end time"? My electric company has reduced rates at off-peak times late at night. I suppose I can still trigger the cars "start time" making use of the car's displayed estimated time to 100%, but that varries depending on use.

 

[keydiver]

There are TONS of threads on here if you search for "Leaf S end timer". Here are the more recent ones I found:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11870" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[KJD]

Why not just set the cars charge timer to end just before the off peak time ends in the morning ?

 

[smkettner]

Yes you have it right. Set the timer for end of super off peak rate. If charging starts too soon set the timer a bit later.
Give it a few days... it will get easier.

 

[caSteve]

Why not just set the cars charge timer to end just before the off peak time ends in the morning ?

Thanks. I expect that's how it will turn out most nights. You could imagine a scenario where I'm plugging in with very low charge. The car might decide to immediately start charging, desperate to get the job done in time.

 

[caSteve]

There are TONS of threads on here if you search for "Leaf S end timer". Here are the more recent ones I found:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=18264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11870" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. I promise that I searched for this topic. My searching skill aren't much to speak of.

 

[tkdbrusco]

This is the single biggest feature I hate on the S model. All of the rest I can live with, but I wish I had the SV just for the more functional timer. Here's what I've learned in 6 months of ownership. Some of this depends on your level of charging. We are using L2 in our house.

1. The timer estimates vastly over-estimate the time needed. Ex. If you have 30% charge, the estimate for 6.6kw/h will say 4:30, but in all actuality, it will take about 2:45 to get you to 100%. So if you set your end timer to 7:00AM, the car will start you at 2:30AM, but actually finish around 5:00AM at will be at 95% by 4:30AM or so (because of below)

2. A truer estimate is roughly 35% per hour, until you get to 95% or so, then that last 5% takes over 45minutes. Which is due to a lot of re-balancing of battery cells going on.

3. Setting a climate timer will change these estimates. if you set both the climate timer and the charge timer to 7:00AM, the car will up its charge estimate by about :30min to accomadate doing both by 7:00AM.

You also may find that depending on your commute, charging to 90% or so is nearly as effective as charging to 100%. If you have a lot of regen opportunities, that will be wasted while you're at 100% charge as it won't let you regen the battery fully until about 92% of capacity. So if you leave your house with 100% charge and head downhill, you're sort of wasting your electricity.

 

[caSteve]

This is the single biggest feature I hate on the S model. All of the rest I can live with, but I wish I had the SV just for the more functional timer. Here's what I've learned in 6 months of ownership. Some of this depends on your level of charging. We are using L2 in our house.

1. The timer estimates vastly over-estimate the time needed. Ex. If you have 30% charge, the estimate for 6.6kw/h will say 4:30, but in all actuality, it will take about 2:45 to get you to 100%. So if you set your end timer to 7:00AM, the car will start you at 2:30AM, but actually finish around 5:00AM at will be at 95% by 4:30AM or so (because of below)

2. A truer estimate is roughly 35% per hour, until you get to 95% or so, then that last 5% takes over 45minutes. Which is due to a lot of re-balancing of battery cells going on.

3. Setting a climate timer will change these estimates. if you set both the climate timer and the charge timer to 7:00AM, the car will up its charge estimate by about :30min to accomadate doing both by 7:00AM.

You also may find that depending on your commute, charging to 90% or so is nearly as effective as charging to 100%. If you have a lot of regen opportunities, that will be wasted while you're at 100% charge as it won't let you regen the battery fully until about 92% of capacity. So if you leave your house with 100% charge and head downhill, you're sort of wasting your electricity.

I haven't bought a level two charger yet, but plan to in the next week or so. Some have their own charge timers. I'd welcome those over this one, which I find bizarre. Setting a timer or even a pair of timers seems like pretty minimal functionality. I'll chalk it up to my car being on the bottom rung of features. My dealer didn't seem to know about this difference between S and SV, and he seemed otherwise pretty well informed.

 

[tkdbrusco]

This is the single biggest feature I hate on the S model. All of the rest I can live with, but I wish I had the SV just for the more functional timer. Here's what I've learned in 6 months of ownership. Some of this depends on your level of charging. We are using L2 in our house.

1. The timer estimates vastly over-estimate the time needed. Ex. If you have 30% charge, the estimate for 6.6kw/h will say 4:30, but in all actuality, it will take about 2:45 to get you to 100%. So if you set your end timer to 7:00AM, the car will start you at 2:30AM, but actually finish around 5:00AM at will be at 95% by 4:30AM or so (because of below)

2. A truer estimate is roughly 35% per hour, until you get to 95% or so, then that last 5% takes over 45minutes. Which is due to a lot of re-balancing of battery cells going on.

3. Setting a climate timer will change these estimates. if you set both the climate timer and the charge timer to 7:00AM, the car will up its charge estimate by about :30min to accomadate doing both by 7:00AM.

You also may find that depending on your commute, charging to 90% or so is nearly as effective as charging to 100%. If you have a lot of regen opportunities, that will be wasted while you're at 100% charge as it won't let you regen the battery fully until about 92% of capacity. So if you leave your house with 100% charge and head downhill, you're sort of wasting your electricity.

I haven't bought a level two charger yet, but plan to in the next week or so. Some have their own charge timers. I'd welcome those over this one, which I find bizarre. Setting a timer or even a pair of timers seems like pretty minimal functionality. I'll chalk it up to my car being on the bottom rung of features. My dealer didn't seem to know about this difference between S and SV, and he seemed otherwise pretty well informed.

I didn't look at chargers that had these features built in. I also don't know how they interface with the leaf's built in timer. Keep in mind that there are certain functions that may need to be disabled in order to get this to function, such as the fact that the timer cancelation feature on the Leaf only lasts for 15 minutes. You should do more research on this in order to make sure it works properly with your car. Like I said, this is the only feature I miss from the SV, the heater is also cool but it doesn't effect me much in CA. I got through the past few months with very minimal heater use anyways. Lately I haven't even been using my home charger. My wife has free L2s at work so she just plugs in after lunch, car it at 100% when she leaves, gets home with about 70% or so and then drives to work the next morning and repeats. Been working out so far.

 

[caSteve]

I didn't look at chargers that had these features built in. I also don't know how they interface with the leaf's built in timer. Keep in mind that there are certain functions that may need to be disabled in order to get this to function, such as the fact that the timer cancelation feature on the Leaf only lasts for 15 minutes. You should do more research on this in order to make sure it works properly with your car. Like I said, this is the only feature I miss from the SV, the heater is also cool but it doesn't effect me much in CA. I got through the past few months with very minimal heater use anyways. Lately I haven't even been using my home charger. My wife has free L2s at work so she just plugs in after lunch, car it at 100% when she leaves, gets home with about 70% or so and then drives to work the next morning and repeats. Been working out so far.

Good point about looking at how those features would interface with the leaf's built in timer. I was planning on the juicebox pro (the one with the tiny display). My intention was to never use the leaf's timer, and instead use the one on the EVSE. It also has wifi and a seemingly nice app that can control things like the timer, I believe. I'll ask the juicebox folks about it.

 

[RonDawg]

You also may find that depending on your commute, charging to 90% or so is nearly as effective as charging to 100%. If you have a lot of regen opportunities, that will be wasted while you're at 100% charge as it won't let you regen the battery fully until about 92% of capacity. So if you leave your house with 100% charge and head downhill, you're sort of wasting your electricity.

You're not wasting electricity itself, since gravity will be propelling the car. You are wasting the opportunity to generate electricity for the battery.

You are also wasting your friction brakes, since the car will be 100% reliant on that for slowing duties until the battery level drops sufficiently to allow for regen.

 

[LEAFguy]

Hi Steve,

I guess I don't really understand your concern. If you are using the 120 volt unit that came with the car, and you have a "very low charge" as you mentioned, it will likely take longer to recharge than the super off peak rates that your utility company offers anyway. In that case, it doesn't really matter if it starts before or after the super off peak rate, what's important is that you have an adequate charge when you leave in the morning.

You mentioned that you'll be getting a Level 2 charge station. You didn't say if you got the Quick Charge package on your new LEAF. That is more important as it gives the higher capacity charge capability, significantly reducing your charge time when using the Level 2 equipment. It obviously gives you the ability to quick charge as well.

In any case, I always recommend using the end timer rather than the start timer - for a number of reasons. It reduces the amount of time that the car sits with a 100 percent charge. Many studies recommend storing a lithium ion battery with a mid-level charge, as opposed to high or low charge. All of those hours after your LEAF is charged each night for the next few years that you drive your car you are effectively storing it. More importantly, over time you will find more of your neighbors also driving electric cars. If everyone starts charging at midnight when the rates drop, midnight becomes the new peak rate hour due to high demand at midnight. As each of you drive differing amounts during the day, if you all set your end timer for 5:00 AM (or whenever your super off peak rates end) one neighbor will start charging at 4:00 AM, another at midnight, and perhaps you will start charging at 3:00 AM. Everyone still wakes up with a "full tank", the utility sold the same amount of juice, and there is no surge to the grid at midnight which would happen by using the start timer. Everybody wins.

One last thing - if you set the car to start charging at midnight and it takes longer to provide a full charge than the hours between midnight and when you leave, you don't have enough juice to get through your day. Keep in mind that driving on electricity is way cheaper than driving on gasoline anyway.

Most importantly - Enjoy your car!

 

[caSteve]

I rarely need a full charge for my daily driving. Reasons aside though, I suppose I'm just frustrated that I don't have the option to tell it when to start charging without doing some arithmetic. When choosing the S, I was aware of most of the things that I was not getting, but I wasn't aware of this. To me it seems a silly limitation.

But I can make do. I *am* enjoying the car, very much. Oh and yes, I did get the quick charge package.

 

[tkdbrusco]

I just want to mention that after having my 2015 S/QC for about 7,000 miles and running periodic readings of the battery, I've noticed that while there is some truth to not leaving the car at 100% charge for long periods of time, my GIDS, HX, and AHR readings are higher after several full cycles of the battery at 100% charge. My typical charging habits are that my wife arrives at work with roughly 30% charge, plugs in after lunch on her work charger (L2), likely gets to full charge by about 4:00PM, heads home around 5:00 with 100%, gets home with about 65%, and drives to work the next morning to repeat the cycle. Since doing this, all of our numbers have actually gone up on the battery readings. I think that the battery (A) likes to be cycled through, which we are doing each weekday from roughly 30-100% and (B) benefits from the cell balancing that occurs at the 100% charge state. This is anecdotal evidence I know, but just things that I've noticed.

I completely agree. The charge timer on the S is completely stupid! Had I known this, I might have gotten an SV, but if you think about the price increase compared to an S w/QC, the base SV is only about $800 more, which doesn't seem that bad until you realize that if you want the QC on the SV, you need to buy the package that includes the LED headlights, and this will run you an extra $1100 or so. Even knowing what I know, I don't think I would have put down an extra $2K for those features. If I lived in a colder climate and needed the hybrid heater, then maybe it would have been worth it.

 

[LEAFguy]

Steve, you will find when you get your L2 charge station that your car will adequately charge, no matter how long you've driven it, during your utility company's super off peak rates. I have a 2013 LEAF, after having had a 2011. Both offered the ability to set a start or end timer. I used to set a start timer, but for the reasons listed in my previous post, I now use the end timer exclusively and recommend its use to others also.