lease vs purchase

[apvbguy]

The benefit of leasing versus buying a Leaf are even greater. As many have already pointed out, the technology will likely be much greater in a few years and we will likely have more vehicles to choose from... like the Fiat 500e or maybe an Infiniti version of the Leaf with power memory seats and power memory tilt and telescopic steering wheel. And with a lease, you get the benefit of the $7500 tax credit up front.

this is the salient point for you to take away from this

 

[JoeCool99]

Following previous post, I signed all the finance paperwork for a new Leaf yesterday here in the UK. It is officially a Hire Purchase agreement over 2 years and I studied it carefully. I have paid a £4000 deposit to allow as much mileage as necessary without paying a 10p/mile surcharge in 2 years time and it also cuts down the final payment. I have agreed to pay £120.80 per calendar month for 24 months with no additional costs other than £119 for the first Nissan Service in 12 months. At the end of 24 months The Finance Company agrees a minimum value which is equal to the final purchase payment when the Leaf is handed back to them. (This is subject to the car being in reasonably good condition) In case anybody is interested the figure on my agreement is £13,514. If it's worth more (unlikely) they gain. If it's worth less they take the loss.

Buying the Leaf outright, after paying a £4000 deposit, I would need to find another £14,472. That would cost me £241.20 per month for 5 years on a loan at 0% interest, so in the real world we're talking £280 per month.

So the decision is this: Spend out a total of £6899.20 to enjoy a new car for 2 years and then hand it back OR spend out a total of £20,800 + all servicing + 3 MOT certificates (£168) over 5 years to own a Leaf outright at a point in it's life when the real headaches begin and it's value is really diminishing fast. It's your call, dear prospective Leaf owner.

 

[johnqh]

I Purchased S + Charger Package, for several reasons.

1. It will drive about 7000 miles per year, nowhere near the 12k/year for the lease.
2. I am in SF with very mild climate. I am not worried about battery degrading.
3. By purchasing, I was able to get 0.9% rate for 60 months, with 0 down. I believe Nissan insists on 0.002 money factor for leasing, or 4.8% financing rate.
4. You get charged deposition fee (about $400) for leasing.
5. After the lease term, if you don't want to keep the car, you have a very short time window to look for the next car, which limits your ability to find the best deal and the perfect model for your needs.

By my calculation, my net out-of-pocket payment over the first 24 months is 2500, over the first 36 months is 8760, and 12500 for the last two years, including tax, fees etc, after the tax credit and CA rebate. The 24-month total payment is comparable to any 2-year lease option I saw. The 36-month total is a little higher than the best 3-year lease. However, the payment for the last two years is way better than the residual to buy after a 36-month lease.

Yes, the technology will advance. However, with our usage, the range is perfectly fine even if the battery degrades to 60%, and it won't make a difference whether the per-mile cost is 2 cents or 3 cents.

 

[planet4ever]

By my calculation, my net out-of-pocket payment over the first 24 months is 2500, over the first 36 months is 8760, and 12500 for the last two years, including tax, fees etc, after the tax credit and CA rebate. The 24-month total payment is comparable to any 2-year lease option I saw. The 36-month total is a little higher than the best 3-year lease. However, the payment for the last two years is way better than the residual to buy after a 36-month lease.

Your points are well worth considering. I am in a very similar situation to yours, including annual mileage, though it is considerably warmer down here than up at your end of the peninsula. I've been thinking about getting out of my current three-year lease early, but finding it hard to get a new lease that would make sense. Have you thought about the other end-of-lease comparison? If you sold the car at the end of two (or three) years would you be likely to get enough to pay off the loan, or at least close enough to match the lease disposition fee?

However, with our usage, the range is perfectly fine even if the battery degrades to 60%, and it won't make a difference whether the per-mile cost is 2 cents or 3 cents.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. If the battery degrades to 60% it shouldn't, so far as I am aware, make your your cost per mile go up. Instead I believe it will just make your cost per charge go down. But even 3¢/mile at Bay Area PG&E prices sounds awfully optimistic to me. That might be possible if you have a large solar array, and don't try to amortize the cost of that against the LEAF mileage. But most people on PG&E's standard E-1 rate will be paying 30¢/kWh on the delta to charge the LEAF, and a kWh is only good for roughly 4 miles, so that's more like 7¢ to 8¢ per mile. You can do much better than that for the LEAF charging with the E-9A rate, or the new EV-A rate that will be replacing it, but at a cost of a sharp increase in what you are currently paying for electric usage in the home.

Ray

 

[johnqh]

I intend to keep, so I only compared cash flow. If you intend to replace the car, I suspect lease is better for 2-yrs (by about $1000) but purchasing is better for 3 yrs (by $2000).

For SF local driving, we only need about 30 miles range, even on weekends. So even if the Leaf's range drop to 60% (in 10 years? 15 years?), we are perfectly fine. What I meant is, technology will advance, and range will increase in future models. But it won't make any difference to us in our driving.

I don't think battery degrading will change the cost per mile. It changes range, but 1kwh is still 1kwh.

Our PGE electric bill is very high, already in tier 3. Actually, changing to E-9A will save us about 40 dollars monthly. (I did my calculation based on PGE bill and usage pattern during the day) The parking garage my wife uses for work has free charging, at least until end of 2013. So, the energy cost for us is negative for this year.

Someone had some info on E-EV in another post. Off peak rate is abou 10 cents per kwh. My calculation shows our home bill will be even lower than E9 without considering charging. If the parking garage no longer offers free charging and we have to charge at home, at 4 miles per kwh, that's about 3 cents/mile cost. .

(By the way, the Leaf replaces an SUV with 15 local mpg, close to 28 cents/mile fuel cost.)

That translates to $210/year EV energy cost. Again, future EV may have better emileage. But even if it improves another 50%, it will only save another 70 dollars per year, maybe 100 max.

So, despite the potential advances in EV tech, it is not a significant factor in lease-vs-buy decision for us.

 

[mogul59]

I leased and I have never leased a car in my life. Over the next few years EVs are going to change pretty drastically or they will be gone IMO. Competition is coming. Elon Musk is talking about a $30k model. Who knows what will be out there in a few years.
Even though I am a LEAF cheerleader, I can't get past not having a battery cooling system.

Good luck!

Thanks for your input. Sorry to be so long in responding. I finally got my son to explain to me how to do it. As a retiree I didn't spend my youth in front of a monitor so I am playing catch up. I did take a two year lease last week and am really liking the car. I hope there will be break throughs in battery technology before we fry the planet.

 

[mogul59]

We bought our Leaf a year ago - before the great lease deals were available. If we had it to do over again, we would probably lease instead. The cost of the month lease payment isn't much more (sometime less!) than you'd pay just in gas. Plus, like was said already, the technology is just going to keep getting better and cheaper as time goes on. Good luck to you either way -- you will LOVE it!

Thanks for your response. I was delayed in responding since I didn't know how to. As a retiree I am playing computer catch up. I did sign a two year lease and am enjpying the car. I live in the Dallas area so am not too concerned about cold temperatures.

 

[mogul59]

I am getting ready to buy a 2013 Leaf. I've been told that a lease would be better than an outright purchase because of the technology risk. Better batteries might cut down on resale value. I have never leased a car and fortunately I could just buy it outright with a trade in of my 2006 Prius. For the SL they are quoting $296 per month or a price around 34k. When you consider that the $7500 tax credit is factored in that is like another $208 per month for a lease. Plus I am tied up for 3 years. I don't know what the residual value would be but that seems pretty steep. Anybody have any thoughts?

Negotiate the lease rates. See the Lease thread for what others are getting.

BTW, where are you ? If you are in a "hot" climate, I'd definitely lease. Otherwise, I'd merely suggest leasing.

Thanks for the input. Sorry to be slow in responding. I wasn't sure how to do it until my son explained it to me. I live in Dallas which qualifies as a hot climate. Record high is 113 and record low is 4. They occured in back to back years when my car A/C went out. There are a surprising number of charging stations in this area considering how important oil is in Texas. I did sign a 2 year lease and I did negotiate. I don't care to know how well since it's already done

 

[mogul59]

Depends on how the battery holds up this third summer and the eventual battery replacement cost.
Otherwise the lease is a slam dunk in most cases.

Thanks for responding. Sorry to be so long in answering. I did lease for two years and an loving the car. I live in the Dallas area

 

[mogul59]

it is a personal issue. if you dont lease ever, you could still consider leasing a LEAF.
I never lease, and didnt this time, and dont regret it.
I also factored in that decision that i will be done commuting in 18 months. your mileage may literally and figuratively vary.

some care more about saving money and being nimble in case of trade-up opportunities than in not getting a lease bill every month, worry about mileage traveled, or owning nothing after paying 6-10k after three years.

There is no wrong answer.
are you bucks up? then I would buy. does your state offer some incentive that gets reduced if you lease? another factor; and that is the case with the federal rebate, where Nissan gobbles up some of the money and also charges you if you want to buy out early.

I did lease for 2 years. No incentives here in Texas. I live in the Dallas area. I just wanted to make the best financial decision. Who knows what may be available in two years. Maybe I can talk my wife into a Tesla.

 

[mogul59]

I intend to keep, so I only compared cash flow. If you intend to replace the car, I suspect lease is better for 2-yrs (by about $1000) but purchasing is better for 3 yrs (by $2000).

For SF local driving, we only need about 30 miles range, even on weekends. So even if the Leaf's range drop to 60% (in 10 years? 15 years?), we are perfectly fine. What I meant is, technology will advance, and range will increase in future models. But it won't make any difference to us in our driving.

I don't think battery degrading will change the cost per mile. It changes range, but 1kwh is still 1kwh.

Our PGE electric bill is very high, already in tier 3. Actually, changing to E-9A will save us about 40 dollars monthly. (I did my calculation based on PGE bill and usage pattern during the day) The parking garage my wife uses for work has free charging, at least until end of 2013. So, the energy cost for us is negative for this year.

Someone had some info on E-EV in another post. Off peak rate is abou 10 cents per kwh. My calculation shows our home bill will be even lower than E9 without considering charging. If the parking garage no longer offers free charging and we have to charge at home, at 4 miles per kwh, that's about 3 cents/mile cost. .

(By the way, the Leaf replaces an SUV with 15 local mpg, close to 28 cents/mile fuel cost.)

That translates to $210/year EV energy cost. Again, future EV may have better emileage. But even if it improves another 50%, it will only save another 70 dollars per year, maybe 100 max.

So, despite the potential advances in EV tech, it is not a significant factor in lease-vs-buy decision for us.

I did decide on a lease and got the car last week. I'm really enjoying it and I know that after 2 years I can look at other options and even though the residual value on the lease is probably too high I can always negotiate if I want to keep the car. I live in Dallas and my electricity rate is 8.065 cents per kwh. I am replacing a Prius so the improvement is not quite as great as in your case but I do want to support the technology. Maybe in two years I will get a Tesla.

 

[mogul59]

The responses in this thread are spot on. I just leased at 2013 SL. And let me tell you that for most of my life I owned $1200 used cars that I would put over 100,000 miles on and then drive to the junk yard. (disclaimer: Wife drives new cars) I have done all my own mechanical work all of my life so car ownership costs have been less than it might be for other people.

The lease I got on the Leaf is for two years and I can extend it 6 months at at time for no fees. The fuel savings I have seen just in two weeks calculate out to half the lease payment, and I was driving a Smartcar at around 40mpg.

Like other people have pointed out, with the amount of technology in these cars you don't want to own it. And in two or three years I would wager that the range will be around 150 miles.

I did sign a two year lease and am enjoying the car. I live in Dallas and there are quite a few charging locations not too far away if need one. I didn't trade in my 2006 Prius as they only offered 6K. I may sell it on Craig's list. I understand about wives and cars. My wife has always driven the best car. ( Wants to be safe, Prius is too complicated so she takes the Lexus) This is my fourth new car in my 74 years. Your range estimates sound about right. Hopefully battery costs will come down a lot in price over that time period.

 

[jjgold]

Went to Mossy Nissan in Oceanside, CA (live in coastal San Diego, just happened to be up there to burn some time). Amazingly they had a 2013 SL with everything but the cameras that was a re-stock with 90 miles and $2500 off list price. Unfortunately the wife's insisting on the cameras.

As such I'm looking at either an SV or SL, I've put this on my google doc account for those who are curious.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ngD77yxORWdDhwRmFqaWZJaGM/edit?usp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line, $400 for a 36 month seems much higher than most are getting on this list. Anyone know a good dealer in San Diego who knows how to sharpen a pencil?



Do I really need leather and/or cameras?


-Joshua

 

[surfingslovak]

Do I really need leather and/or cameras?

You can get the cameras as an option on an SV. A friend of mine just did that this past weekend. Best of luck with your search.

 

[vsiev]

Went to Mossy Nissan in Oceanside, CA (live in coastal San Diego, just happened to be up there to burn some time). Amazingly they had a 2013 SL with everything but the cameras that was a re-stock with 90 miles and $2500 off list price. Unfortunately the wife's insisting on the cameras.

As such I'm looking at either an SV or SL, I've put this on my google doc account for those who are curious.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ngD77yxORWdDhwRmFqaWZJaGM/edit?usp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line, $400 for a 36 month seems much higher than most are getting on this list. Anyone know a good dealer in San Diego who knows how to sharpen a pencil?



Do I really need leather and/or cameras?


-Joshua

Hit up Danny at Fontana. I got my Leaf there a couple weeks ago with no hassle and he gave me a great deal. It's a slight drive but well worth it (I'm also in San Diego). He even offered to pick me up but I found a ride. I just request quotes through email before going up. Also, he will throw in a Home Charger (self install of course). Tell him Vinty sent ya.

Oh and on your way back, you can hit Pechanga, play some slots, and charge up for free.

 

[jjgold]

Went to Mossy Nissan in Oceanside, CA (live in coastal San Diego, just happened to be up there to burn some time). Amazingly they had a 2013 SL with everything but the cameras that was a re-stock with 90 miles and $2500 off list price. Unfortunately the wife's insisting on the cameras.

As such I'm looking at either an SV or SL, I've put this on my google doc account for those who are curious.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ngD77yxORWdDhwRmFqaWZJaGM/edit?usp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line, $400 for a 36 month seems much higher than most are getting on this list. Anyone know a good dealer in San Diego who knows how to sharpen a pencil?



Do I really need leather and/or cameras?


-Joshua

Hit up Danny at Fontana. I got my Leaf there a couple weeks ago with no hassle and he gave me a great deal. It's a slight drive but well worth it (I'm also in San Diego). He even offered to pick me up but I found a ride. I just request quotes through email before going up. Also, he will throw in a Home Charger (self install of course). Tell him Vinty sent ya.

Oh and on your way back, you can hit Pechanga, play some slots, and charge up for free.

Went to Mossy Nissan in Oceanside, CA (live in coastal San Diego, just happened to be up there to burn some time). Amazingly they had a 2013 SL with everything but the cameras that was a re-stock with 90 miles and $2500 off list price. Unfortunately the wife's insisting on the cameras.

As such I'm looking at either an SV or SL, I've put this on my google doc account for those who are curious.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ngD77yxORWdDhwRmFqaWZJaGM/edit?usp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bottom line, $400 for a 36 month seems much higher than most are getting on this list. Anyone know a good dealer in San Diego who knows how to sharpen a pencil?



Do I really need leather and/or cameras?


-Joshua

Hit up Danny at Fontana. I got my Leaf there a couple weeks ago with no hassle and he gave me a great deal. It's a slight drive but well worth it (I'm also in San Diego). He even offered to pick me up but I found a ride. I just request quotes through email before going up. Also, he will throw in a Home Charger (self install of course). Tell him Vinty sent ya.

Oh and on your way back, you can hit Pechanga, play some slots, and charge up for free.

Thanks for the reference. Now have weseloh in SJC offering to deliver a loaded SL tomorrow on a 36 mo lease with $2500 down for:
$325 Plus Tax =$349. Was the free charger the AV level 2?

Probably will sign over the phone tonight.
-joshua

 

[vsiev]

Thanks for the reference. Now have weseloh in SJC offering to deliver a loaded SL tomorrow on a 36 mo lease with $2500 down for:
$325 Plus Tax =$349. Was the free charger the AV level 2?

Probably will sign over the phone tonight.
-joshua

Yea it is a Nissan Branded Aerovironment Level 2 EVSE. You can make it into a "portable" unit by attaching a pigtail plug that supports 40 amps e.g. 10-50P.

Also, make sure to apply for the CA rebate....funds are running low so submit asap to reserve the funds.