Let's Raise the Gas Tax

[BillyM]

The federal and state gas taxes are too low to bring in enough revenue to maintain roads and bridges and have been unchanged for 20 years. Let's call our representatives to raise the gas tax. It won't affect us too much, and will also help with faster adoption of EVs.

 

[Randy]

They just went up 10% here....

 

[TomT]

EVs need to pay their fair share too so it needs to be something other than just a gas tax... We use and wear out the roads just as much as the ICE next to us...

The federal and state gas taxes are too low to bring in enough revenue to maintain roads and bridges and have been unchanged for 20 years. Let's call our representatives to raise the gas tax. It won't affect us too much, and will also help with faster adoption of EVs.

 

[jhm614]

EVs need to pay their fair share too so it needs to be something other than just a gas tax... We use and wear out the roads just as much as the ICE next to us...

Maybe add an annual mileage (usage?) tax during annual registration or safety inspection?

 

[planet4ever]

I agree with Tom - we need to pay our fair share. See previous threads on this:

Jan 2011: WA SB 5251 : $100 annual fee for EVs (was EV Tax)
Nov 2011: EVs and highway taxes
Jan 2013: Why Americans will soon pay more to drive every mile
Jan 2013: VA charges $50/year EXTRA for electric vehicle registration!
Apr 2013: NC bill to tax EVs $100/year
Jun 2013: California gas tax going up 3.5c/gallon July 1st

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

They just went up 10% here....

Really? I didn't even notice. :lol:

 

[Randy]

I was a little amazed, even though I don't buy much gas...

All it takes is for a refinery to be out of service and prices go up real quickly...But here's a situation where the gas tax per gallon went up from 36.5 cents per gallon to 39.5 cents per gallon and I didn't see ANY gas station raise their prices to actually collect the new higher amount...It was a missed opportunity, I guess....

 

[mbender]

The federal and state gas taxes are too low [...] and have been unchanged for 20 years. Let's call our representatives to raise the gas tax.

I say, let's just pretend it actually was a tax (ie, a percent of the 1993 average price per gallon), and apply that % to today's price per gallon. We'd have more than enough revenue to maintain and improve the infrastructure.

Let's call our representatives to turn the gas fee into a gas tax.

 

[TomT]

Miles traveled and the weight of the vehicle is the logical and fair way to do it, yes...

EVs need to pay their fair share too so it needs to be something other than just a gas tax... We use and wear out the roads just as much as the ICE next to us...

Maybe add an annual mileage (usage?) tax during annual registration or safety inspection?

 

[smkettner]

^^^^

+1 for weight(gvwr) x miles x tax rate. Same rate for commercial trucking.
Then convert the gas tax to supporting clean energy and reduction of pollution.

 

[GRA]

^^^^

+1 for weight(gvwr) x miles x tax rate. Same rate for commercial trucking.
Then convert the gas tax to supporting clean energy and reduction of pollution.

Yeah, count me as another thinking we need to replace the gas tax with a VMT tax using either a GVWR or an axle weight multiple, plus a separate carbon tax on the fuel used. That puts the road wear and tear proportionally on _all_ vehicles regardless of fuel type, while separating out the externalities due to the fuel type. Not that this entirely reasonable idea has a hope in hell of passing in the current Congress, and for that matter probably not the next one either.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Not that this entirely reasonable idea has a hope in hell of passing in the current Congress, and for that matter probably not the next one either.

Sad, but true.

I agree with Tom - we need to pay our fair share. See previous threads on this:

Jan 2011: WA SB 5251 : $100 annual fee for EVs (was EV Tax)
Nov 2011: EVs and highway taxes
Jan 2013: Why Americans will soon pay more to drive every mile
Jan 2013: VA charges $50/year EXTRA for electric vehicle registration!
Apr 2013: NC bill to tax EVs $100/year
Jun 2013: California gas tax going up 3.5c/gallon July 1st

Ray

Add to that list:
$50 Registration fee for EVs in Colorado. $30 to HUTF (gas taxes for roads) and $20 for a charge station grant fund.

 

[planet4ever]

+1 for weight(gvwr) x miles x tax rate. Same rate for commercial trucking.
Then convert the gas tax to supporting clean energy and reduction of pollution.

Yeah, count me as another thinking we need to replace the gas tax with a VMT tax using either a GVWR or an axle weight multiple, plus a separate carbon tax on the fuel used. That puts the road wear and tear proportionally on _all_ vehicles regardless of fuel type, while separating out the externalities due to the fuel type. Not that this entirely reasonable idea has a hope in hell of passing in the current Congress, and for that matter probably not the next one either.

It doesn't have to. Primary responsibility for maintaining roads falls on state and local governments. It is states which have annual or biennial inspections, so can report true mileages to the state DMV, which would collect the money as part of vehicle registration. (Yes, they could spread it out with monthly payments, the way auto insurance companies do.) What Congress would be happy to do is reduce the current federal gas tax, and stop sending the money to the states. That would give state legislatures a powerful incentive to enact a new and more logical tax. Admittedly some of them would balk, but they could rationalize it as not a new tax at all, but a pro-states-rights replacement for a previously existing one.

Ray

 

[GRA]

+1 for weight(gvwr) x miles x tax rate. Same rate for commercial trucking.
Then convert the gas tax to supporting clean energy and reduction of pollution.

Yeah, count me as another thinking we need to replace the gas tax with a VMT tax using either a GVWR or an axle weight multiple, plus a separate carbon tax on the fuel used. That puts the road wear and tear proportionally on _all_ vehicles regardless of fuel type, while separating out the externalities due to the fuel type. Not that this entirely reasonable idea has a hope in hell of passing in the current Congress, and for that matter probably not the next one either.

It doesn't have to. Primary responsibility for maintaining roads falls on state and local governments.

Quite so, but the majority of the money, especially for the highway system, comes from the federal government.

It is states which have annual or biennial inspections, so can report true mileages to the state DMV, which would collect the money as part of vehicle registration. (Yes, they could spread it out with monthly payments, the way auto insurance companies do.) What Congress would be happy to do is reduce the current federal gas tax, and stop sending the money to the states. That would give state legislatures a powerful incentive to enact a new and more logical tax. Admittedly some of them would balk, but they could rationalize it as not a new tax at all, but a pro-states-rights replacement for a previously existing one.

Ray

Instead of paying yearly, another option, although having potential Big Brother problems, is using GPS and transponders. This has been done in a few trial programs (one in Oregon IIRR). Here's a news article from a few years ago, commenting on the foreseeable problems as PEVs entered the market:

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/how-electric-cars-could-pull-the-plug-on-us-highway-funding/9678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DesertDenizen]

EVs need to pay their fair share too so it needs to be something other than just a gas tax... We use and wear out the roads just as much as the ICE next to us...

I totally disagree, with respect. I charge my Leaf, and power my home, with my photovoltaic system. Yes I use the roads, but I already do more than just about anyone to protect the environment and reduce our dependency on fossil and often imported fuels. If I get an offset by not paying gas tax or an alternative road use fee, seems fair to me.

 

[GRA]

EVs need to pay their fair share too so it needs to be something other than just a gas tax... We use and wear out the roads just as much as the ICE next to us...

I totally disagree, with respect. I charge my Leaf, and power my home, with my photovoltaic system. Yes I use the roads, but I already do more than just about anyone to protect the environment and reduce our dependency on fossil and often imported fuels. If I get an offset by not paying gas tax or an alternative road use fee, seems fair to me.

I suspect you got a credit or a rebate for installing that PV system, didn't you? So also getting a pass on fuel tax would be a form of double-dipping, don't you think, especially as we're talking about separating out road wear and tear (via a VMT) from environmental externalities (via carbon tax or similar on fuel)?

 

[DesertDenizen]

No, I installed my system 10 years ago, there were no credits then. I have cost avoided enough to offset my initial outlay, but without any subsidies from anyone.

 

[RobertC]

I agree with Tom - we need to pay our fair share. See previous threads on this:

Jan 2011: WA SB 5251 : $100 annual fee for EVs (was EV Tax)
Nov 2011: EVs and highway taxes
Jan 2013: Why Americans will soon pay more to drive every mile
Jan 2013: VA charges $50/year EXTRA for electric vehicle registration!
Apr 2013: NC bill to tax EVs $100/year
Jun 2013: California gas tax going up 3.5c/gallon July 1st

Ray

The state already gets additional tax revenue from the tax collected on higher electric bills from EV owners (except those that generate their own electricity).
I know that in New Jersey the state gets more tax revenue from an EV owner's higher electric bill than it would get from the gas tax on a similar size car.
In other words, in New Jersey I am sending more tax to the state driving an electric vehicle than if I were driving a gas vehicle.
A simple change in the state's accounting system could appropriate the additional electric bill tax to road maintenance.

 

[GRA]

No, I installed my system 10 years ago, there were no credits then. I have cost avoided enough to offset my initial outlay, but without any subsidies from anyone.

Good for you, but it doesn't change the point I was raising about separating the costs of wear and tear from environmental issues. The roads don't care what kind of energy source the vehicle is using, only how many miles it travels and its weight. Everything else is external.

 

[davewill]

Heck, I'd settle for converting the current fixed tax to a percentage at the current levels. At least the revenues would start to rise with gas prices.