Looking for home central A/C recommendations

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Given your minimal cooling needs, have you looked into evaporate cooling rather than AC?

Boomer23 said:
Everyone, thanks for your thoughts and comments, much appreciated.

I don't know anything about geothermal, but I haven't heard of anyone around here doing that.

Geothermal is far more efficient.

Costs are highly dependent on your source of constant temperature fluid. This usually involves very expensive trenching or drilling to cycle your coolant back to earth temperature, after it is heated or cooled in the process of cooling or heating your house.

I installed a well-sourced open loop heat pump when I built my home in 1995. I have a "climatemaster" three ton, and the entire installation including the sheet metal and duct work was only about $6k. I did the plumbing lines and connections myself, which probably would have cost ~$1,000 additional. Other than filter cleaning, one bad solder joint repaired under warranty, and one electrical connection that vibrated loose (~$150 service call) it has required no maintenance.

Like you, I have minimal cooling needs, in my case because I have a passive solar home with sufficient thermal mass to use night time cooling for most of my needs. When I do need the AC, usually late afternoons when outside ambient temps are above ~100 F (a few degrees lower than when my LEAF parked outside begins to show seven temperature bars) I simply use the heated "waste" water for irrigation purposes.

I heat primarily with wood. Since the fall of 2011, on PG&E E9 TOU rates, it would actually be much cheaper to heat with the heat pump than with wood, but I really like having the stove going, and I cut my own firewood as a byproduct of my property management. I did make about the same amount of money in the last year selling firewood, as my total home (and LEAF) electricity and propane (cook stove and back-up for solar hot water) bill, as well as the ~50 gallons of gasoline I burned, so I was pretty close to being net energy independent for the first time in my life.
 
Personally, I would install inverter driven multi-zone mini-split heat pumps in all the commonly used rooms, that way you don't need to heat/cool the whole house all the time. I've installed several of these recently, and they are astonishingly efficient. At night then you can only condition the bedroom(s), and you can set timers for all the different zones.

More expensive up front, but they have models up to 28 SEER, they are quieter, more efficient, and no ductwork needed. The last one I installed was the dual-zone LG 21 SEER. I think they make these up to 4 zones in various sizes. Sometimes it's better to install two double-zone units than a quad though.

-Phil
 
Ingineer said:
Personally, I would install inverter driven multi-zone mini-split heat pumps in all the commonly used rooms, that way you don't need to heat/cool the whole house all the time. I've installed several of these recently, and they are astonishingly efficient. At night then you can only condition the bedroom(s), and you can set timers for all the different zones.

More expensive up front, but they have models up to 28 SEER, they are quieter, more efficient, and no ductwork needed. The last one I installed was the dual-zone LG 21 SEER. I think they makes these up to 4 zones in various sizes. Sometimes it's better to install two double-zone units than a quad though.

-Phil
Mini-split is definitely the way to go. We have a system for the three rooms in our house that need A/C and it is great. Some of the blowers in the room can be ugly for these systems, but LG has a unit that hides it behind an (ugly) picture frame.
 
5 ton seems large to me. Two x 1.5 or 2 ton would be better IMO. Especially considering you do not expect to need cooler than 78.

Use 2 units so you can cool the upstair separate from downstairs or bedrooms separate from living area.

A quieter unit with higher SEER is worth it when spending money although I recommend something in the middle rather than going all out max efficient. If the additional efficiency comes with 2 speed blower fan and compressor I think that is also worth the extra.

JMHO, lots of good info posted before mine.
 
Boomer23 said:
epic said:
Ok--this is my industry.maytag sucks --2nd tier junk.amana & goodman are essentialy the same product...both made by goodman manufacturing.Go 16 seer --use bryant or carrier (they are the same units also )Trane is very good ,also.They have a lot of trouble getting to 16 seer with a 5 ton .If you do not like it so cold I would consider a 4 ton . there are load calculations that can be done.The unit also removes humidity & it must run to do that . 5 ton is preety big for 2400 sq ft. If your stuff is real leaky --fix that . that is cheaper & a fast pay back.

So out of my three bids, you would choose the Trane? They bid a 13 SEER unit at $4,800 or a 15 SEER unit at $5,800. Those are 5 ton units. I could save some money getting a 4 ton unit, I guess. This is for a split system with the compressor outdoors with about 50 feet of line run to the furnace. Includes running new control wires to the existing digital thermostat, but doesn't include any work on the ducts.

What do you think about these prices?
that is about the price i would charge around here.sealing ducts & insulation are very inportant.around here it is city energy code ,on a change out=it must be fixed..period.low cost to do,also.Trane is great.I'd go the 15 seer---only because it is a nicer,quiter outside & a nicer inside unit.You should be able to use a humidity controling t-stat with the 15 seer.
 
padamson1 said:
Ingineer said:
Personally, I would install inverter driven multi-zone mini-split heat pumps in all the commonly used rooms, that way you don't need to heat/cool the whole house all the time. I've installed several of these recently, and they are astonishingly efficient. At night then you can only condition the bedroom(s), and you can set timers for all the different zones.

More expensive up front, but they have models up to 28 SEER, they are quieter, more efficient, and no ductwork needed. The last one I installed was the dual-zone LG 21 SEER. I think they makes these up to 4 zones in various sizes. Sometimes it's better to install two double-zone units than a quad though.

-Phil
Mini-split is definitely the way to go. We have a system for the three rooms in our house that need A/C and it is great. Some of the blowers in the room can be ugly for these systems, but LG has a unit that hides it behind an (ugly) picture frame.
there are also ducted mini-splits.the main complaint with a mini-split in a residence is the look..kind of like a window unit hanging around!
 
epic said:
there are also ducted mini-splits.the main complaint with a mini-split in a residence is the look..kind of like a window unit hanging around!
Most of the manufacturers also make in-ceiling mount units, but it's a major project to install one unless you have a commercial drop-ceiling. I suppose if you are building a new house or doing extensive remodeling this might be a good choice.

-Phil
 
I ran across the Fujitsu Halcyon HFI series of mini-splits the other day - design looks to be extremely flexible and can be set up as a traditional wall-mount unit, ceiling mount or even ducted (easy to retrofit into existing ducted homes) with 1-8 zones.

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/hfi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orRJiutO9t0[/youtube]
 
drees said:
I ran across the Fujitsu Halcyon HFI series of mini-splits the other day - design looks to be extremely flexible and can be set up as a traditional wall-mount unit, ceiling mount or even ducted (easy to retrofit into existing ducted homes) with 1-8 zones.

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/hfi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orRJiutO9t0[/youtube]
think he has gas heat===NOT easy to intigrate into exsisting duct work!
 
epic said:
think he has gas heat===NOT easy to intigrate into exsisting duct work!
Yes, you'd have to give up gas heat. But I'd consider doing away with gas heat in favor of a mini-split particularly if you have solar panels...
 
drees said:
epic said:
think he has gas heat===NOT easy to intigrate into exsisting duct work!
Yes, you'd have to give up gas heat. But I'd consider doing away with gas heat in favor of a mini-split particularly if you have solar panels...
are you familiar with the carrier greenspeed--inverter,central split system.can use gas heat with this set up.we just installed 3 of these systems in a new construction house.zoning systems on 2 of the units.it is three 4 ton systems.
 
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