Lowdown of installing EVSE in my garage?

[jlsoaz]

Hi Everyone:

I just agreed to lease a Leaf and am very excited, but would like to find out quickly some of the lowdown on installing a charger in my garage. I verified with Blink that I am not in the free charger area, but they are going to call me back anyway and we will see about my paying for them to install a charger in my garage.

I think my main question is what are my choices within staying within what I am supposed to do as a lessee? Can I go with buying some equipment at Best Buy and then paying my local electrician to install? Or, realistically, is it best to go with folks who know what they are doing based on various other similar installs? Will they likely cost more?

I think maybe I should post this to a fresh thread, but will try here first to see what sort of responses I can get.

 

[gaswalla]

you should just use evseupgrade.com

It's way cheaper and more reliable. You'll probably want a 240V outlet installed - but you'd need that anyways.

 

[ebill3]

you should just use evseupgrade.com

It's way cheaper and more reliable. You'll probably want a 240V outlet installed - but you'd need that anyways.

I think evseupgrade is super, but, is getting the supplied EVSE upgraded a good idea when the car is leased? Might there be a problem at the end of a lease?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i f you decide to turn in the lease, just advertise a sale/trade here. i leased and did upgrade and i feel that i should have little difficulty finding someone willing to trade their unmodified EVSE for mine modified one

 

[JPWhite]

you should just use evseupgrade.com

It's way cheaper and more reliable. You'll probably want a 240V outlet installed - but you'd need that anyways.

I think evseupgrade is super, but, is getting the supplied EVSE upgraded a good idea when the car is leased? Might there be a problem at the end of a lease?

If you don't want to modify the evse, then just buy a new one pre modified. True it's 800 bucks or more, but you'll pay more for an evse plus install cost anywho.

 

[smkettner]

Just buy an EVSE from Home Depot etc and have your local electrician connect the power.
EVSE upgrade is a great alternative especially if you have an unused connection such as a dryer outlet in the garage.

 

[jlsoaz]

Just buy an EVSE from Home Depot etc and have your local electrician connect the power.
EVSE upgrade is a great alternative especially if you have an unused connection such as a dryer outlet in the garage.

Thanks for the various ideas from everyone. I would be concerned about whether my dealer might take issue (they own the vehicle, not me) with my use of EVUpgrade, but if it's ok with them then it will be ok with me. I don't understand what it is or why it's recommended, but I guess I can just call them to find out.

My dryer outlet is about 40 feet from the garage, so I don't think that will work readily, but I think I am already assuming I'll probabsly spend a bundle to make sure that whatever I install in the garage it is done right and is there for me to use for this or any other future EVs.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Just buy an EVSE from Home Depot etc and have your local electrician connect the power.
EVSE upgrade is a great alternative especially if you have an unused connection such as a dryer outlet in the garage.

Thanks for the various ideas from everyone. I would be concerned about whether my dealer might take issue (they own the vehicle, not me) with my use of EVUpgrade, but if it's ok with them then it will be ok with me. I don't understand what it is or why it's recommended, but I guess I can just call them to find out.

My dryer outlet is about 40 feet from the garage, so I don't think that will work readily, but I think I am already assuming I'll probabsly spend a bundle to make sure that whatever I install in the garage it is done right and is there for me to use for this or any other future EVs.

If you go to EVSEupgrade.com you will find lots of useful information about EVSEs on the home page, including an FAQ on the upgrade.

 

[planet4ever]

The first question you need to ask is whether you need 240v charging at all. How many miles do you expect to drive per day (especially weekdays)? If you are replacing another car, how many miles/year have you been putting on that one? If your answers are less than 50 and less than 10K, 120v charging may be all you need.

Leasing really shouldn't factor into your decision. By the time your lease is up you will probably be an EV fanatic even if you aren't now. If you keep the car, no problem. If you get another one, whatever you have been using will continue to work. If your EVSE meets the J1772 plug and communication standard, Nissan has no reason to complain. If you upgrade their 120v "trickle charge" EVSE then, yes, they have a right to get an unmodified one back, but many people here would be delighted to trade with you.

The Wiki here has a good summary of your options: EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment)

The most detailed discussion of various EVSE options is here: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Ray

 

[jlsoaz]

The first question you need to ask is whether you need 240v charging at all. How many miles do you expect to drive per day (especially weekdays)? If you are replacing another car, how many miles/year have you been putting on that one? If your answers are less than 50 and less than 10K, 120v charging may be all you need.

Leasing really shouldn't factor into your decision. By the time your lease is up you will probably be an EV fanatic even if you aren't now. If you keep the car, no problem. If you get another one, whatever you have been using will continue to work. If your EVSE meets the J1772 plug and communication standard, Nissan has no reason to complain. If you upgrade their 120v "trickle charge" EVSE then, yes, they have a right to get an unmodified one back, but many people here would be delighted to trade with you.

The Wiki here has a good summary of your options: EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment)

The most detailed discussion of various EVSE options is here: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Ray

Thanks Ray- I'll read more at the link when I get a chance, but a couple of quick clarifications from my side

- Leasing has not really factored in to my decision, I just thought I'd mention how I'm coming to the car.
- Note that the closest public charger is in the next county, 40 miles away. If I do depart for the larger city toward that charger, I'll probably want to make sure I have a good charge going. I'm not really sure that I will take it much out of the county though. I sort of just want it for an around-town car, keeping in mind that means roughly a 20 mile radius with some 75 mph highway driving.
- I am probably not going to be interested in 110V charging except when I am on the road for emergencies. Most of my daily trips are very short - 5-20 miles, but I see no reason not to install and pay for the fastest possible charging to my garage, as long as it stays within what Nissan is ok with (especially considering the car belongs to them).

 

[rumpole]

Hi Everyone:

I just agreed to lease a Leaf and am very excited, but would like to find out quickly some of the lowdown on installing a charger in my garage. I verified with Blink that I am not in the free charger area, but they are going to call me back anyway and we will see about my paying for them to install a charger in my garage.

I think my main question is what are my choices within staying within what I am supposed to do as a lessee? Can I go with buying some equipment at Best Buy and then paying my local electrician to install? Or, realistically, is it best to go with folks who know what they are doing based on various other similar installs? Will they likely cost more?

I think maybe I should post this to a fresh thread, but will try here first to see what sort of responses I can get.

The EVSEUpgrade is a great idea and a great product, but keep in mind that should you get a future Leaf in the 2013 MY or beyond, the on-board charger is going to be upgraded to 6.6 kW. The 2011 and 2012 Leaf's both have 3.3 kW chargers. According to the EVSEUpgrade site: "The standard upgraded unit will charge at 12 amps on 240v which is twice as fast as 120v and 87% of the maximum capability of the Leaf. We are now also offering a revision 2 software upgrade that will allow the full LEAF level 2 charge capability (16 amps) when used on 240v."

The upgraded 16 Amp unit offers full L2 capability for the 2011 and 2012 model years. Once the charger goes up to 6.6 kW, the Leaf will be capable of 30A charging, so the upgraded 16 Amp charger will be current limited. I have no doubt that Phil would be able to modify the 2013 MY Leaf L1 charger to do 30A, but you will need two slot 30A circuit breakers on your panel, assuming you have the spaces available, or get a sub panel, which you will probably have to have an electrician put in anyway. Again, the EVSEUpgrade is a great idea and a fine product, but you should be as informed as possible.

Should you decide to get an EVSE installed in your garage, you can check out the video I made of a similar EVSE install: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R61LyUJEupM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My total cost was $1030. I recycled some wiring, though, so you might be in the $1200-$1500 range. The quote from Aerovironment for me was $2100.

 

[jlsoaz]

[...]
Again, the EVSEUpgrade is a great idea and a fine product, but you should be as informed as possible.

Should you decide to get an EVSE installed in your garage, you can check out the video I made of a similar EVSE install: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R61LyUJEupM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My total cost was $1030. I recycled some wiring, though, so you might be in the $1200-$1500 range. The quote from Aerovironment for me was $2100.

Ok, thanks for the further info.

 

[planet4ever]

The upgraded 16 Amp unit offers full L2 capability for the 2011 and 2012 model years. Once the charger goes up to 6.6 kW, the Leaf will be capable of 30A charging, so the upgraded 16 Amp charger will be current limited. I have no doubt that Phil would be able to modify the 2013 MY Leaf L1 charger to do 30A, but you will need two slot 30A circuit breakers on your panel, assuming you have the spaces available, or get a sub panel, which you will probably have to have an electrician put in anyway.

Four quibbles:

• 6.6kW will be nice to have when charging away from home, but most people will find it adds very little in their garage, because 3.3kW will already charge the car (including 2013 and probably 2014) from completely empty in less time than you will be in bed.
• Don't call what you get from Phil a charger; it's an EVSE. As your second quoted sentence suggests, the charger is a permanent part of the car.
• I seriously doubt that Phil will be able to upgrade the L1 to 30A. I'm guessing he would be able to reuse the J1772 connector and attached cable, but not much else. (What's the old joke about upgrading a car by jacking up the radiator cap and rolling a new car under it?)
• You are not allowed to run a 30A EVSE on a 30A circuit. The circuit has to support 25% more amperage than the maximum continuous draw, so a 30A draw means you need at least 37.5A breakers and wiring. (In practice, that means 40A.)

Ray

 

[JPWhite]

• 6.6kW will be nice to have when charging away from home, but most people will find it adds very little in their garage, because 3.3kW will already charge the car (including 2013 and probably 2014) from completely empty in less time than you will be in bed.

Ray

For overnight charging I agree a slow 3.3 kWh L2 or 16amp L1 is all that is required.

However there are times when I would have appreciated the faster charger. One time I found my self making a trip to downtown Nashville twice a day. I'd have to wait long enough to get 8 bars prior to setting off the second time. Sometime the car is sitting at 10 bars and me and my wife decide on the spur of the moment we want to go somewhere that will require say 11 bars. We have to wait for the car to charge sufficiently after I hit the override, a quicker charger would cut that wait from 30 Mins + to 15 Mins+

Now that charging networks such as Blink are charging between 1 and 2 dollars an hour for L2 charging in TN, the quicker charger is clearly superior.

 

[jlsoaz]

Just an update here, assuming I want to install a non-EVSEUpgrade.com unit in my garage for 30Amp or higher (keeping in mind that this will apply, as much as possible, to a future EV as well as this one) are there any recommendations?

Poking around the links that provided, this page was linked from somewhere and seemed helpful to give a quick summary of what's out there, although it seemed not sufficiently helpful.

http://www.pluginrecharge.com/2011/08/residential-evse-roundup.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The threat that is here on the forums as to comparisons and everything seems probably rich with information, but also I suspect difficult in that it's hard to go through 78 pages to reach conclusions.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not eligible for saving money via the EV Project because of my zip code, but what I take away so far from research includes that this is ok in that I sort of already knew that would happen and this allows me to get to discussing things with a few people (which I will do over the phone in a couple of hours when business hours open up a bit more).

One person I will discuss a Clipper Creek unit with them that they are selling, and it is 40 Amps, but I want to be a bit careful and not assume necessarily that "more is more", especially as I am in Arizona. I am not near Phoenix (am about an hour South of Tucson, at 3500 feet elevation, so a notch cooler here than Tucson), and don't anticipate quite the issues they have there, but still, want to educate myself a bit as to various issues.

 

[smkettner]

This thread has my brief summary of equipment options on page 1

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5842

I would not get all wrapped up in being future proof. Just get what you need now.

I would stay away from SPX.

Or is it the installation and wiring you are concerned about? A local electrician can pull the circuit needed. Nothing special just logistics.

 

[JPWhite]

Just an update here, assuming I want to install a non-EVSEUpgrade.com unit in my garage for 30Amp or higher (keeping in mind that this will apply, as much as possible, to a future EV as well as this one) are there any recommendations?

EVSEUpgrade is 16A. 30A may never come to pass for this solution.

If you have access to a second hand EVSE that may be a good option.

Don't drive yourself crazy over these choices. If you local mileage is moderate, use the L1 supplied unit until you are more sure if you need a dedicated EVSE in the garage or not. From a convenience point if view I'd want one, but others have managed just fine using the L1 unit that comes with the car.

 

[Nubo]

Just an update here, assuming I want to install a non-EVSEUpgrade.com unit in my garage for 30Amp or higher (keeping in mind that this will apply, as much as possible, to a future EV as well as this one) are there any recommendations?

I chose a Leviton unit for our garage. They're made in the USA and I have never read any negative reports, unlilke other units. Ours is a 160 (16 amps) but I believe they also make a "320". I like the metal enclosure, and the cable is heavy-duty. The 320 looks even heavier-dutier.

Having a permanent unit in the garage lets me conveniently keep the Nissan unit in the car for emergencies.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Don't drive yourself crazy over these choices. If you local mileage is moderate, use the L1 supplied unit until you are more sure if you need a dedicated EVSE in the garage or not. From a convenience point if view I'd want one, but others have managed just fine using the L1 unit that comes with the car.

I agree. For me (and probably many others), L1 "trickle" charging is more than enough at home for 99% of the time. I bought an SPX L2 unit (works perfectly fine, btw) for convenience and installed it myself. The EVSEUpgrade, while a nice option, would have solved the wrong problem for me. Sure, it's quicker, but no more convenient.

Given what you wrote in the original post, I strongly urge you to live with L1 for the first month with the car. See if it's fast enough. See whether you mind unpacking/packing the cord every day (for a while, I simply left the L1 cord in my garage). The "right" home charging solution varies so much from person to person, that the best option is to learn what you need for yourself, and then solve that problem. Trying to guess or "future-proof" or go with the Nissan recommended approach is almost guaranteed to lead you to an over-engineered, overly expensive solution.

 

[JPWhite]

Trying to guess or "future-proof" or go with the Nissan recommended approach is almost guaranteed to lead you to an over-engineered, overly expensive solution.

+1