My Experiments With Turtle

[DarkStar]

It was uphill. I got some more data after a full charge. After 3.617kWh on 110/120V charging, I then drive the LEAF inside the garage (40 ft) and it finished with 22.742 kWh Level II charging. 3.617+22.742=26.359 AC kWh. If the Battery Pack is 24 DC kWh, then I have 3.617% lost in efficiency.

Hmm... I get 9.83% efficiency loss (=(26.359/24)-1), which is pretty close to my guesstimate of 90% charger efficiency.

 

[waidy]

I re-did my calculation, you were right. I looked back on my xterm window and found that I was using a wrong number. Thanks for the correction.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I don't think u have 24 kwh...*waits for yelling to subsides*

I think its more like 21

 

[waidy]

I don't understand. Where did you get the 21kWh number? If this is true, that makes my charger even less efficient.
Waidy Lee

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Just a guess

 

[AndyH]

Just a guess

Ick! ICK! No more guessing for you until tomorrow. :lol:

Wait...ummm...I get it - you're using Jedi mind tricks on yourself so you're conditioned to stay in the 20kWh of the white bars so you have a pre-programmed reserve. Ok...no more 'reality' for you, Dave!

 

[AndyH]

I don't understand. Where did you get the 21kWh number? If this is true, that makes my charger even less efficient.
Waidy Lee

Some of the senior EVers are still in a lead state of mind, so they need to move the capacity numbers around until they see the 80% efficiency they're expecting. It's 99.9% confirmed that we have a full 24kWh of energy to use, with 20kWh in the white bars and 4 until we sputter to a...oh you know about that already.

Andy

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ok my 21 kwh statement is a lame attempt to justify what is appearing to be a very poor charging efficiency. i dont know if its just 120 or what? but it aint looking good.

 

[evnow]

ok my 21 kwh statement is a lame attempt to justify what is appearing to be a very poor charging efficiency. i dont know if its just 120 or what? but it aint looking good.

Assuming that the charging efficiency is the difference between the energy used at the plug (what Blink shows) and what Leaf shows as the efficiency - I see wildly varying numbers - from low 60 to nearly unity.

How are you calculating the charging efficiency ?

 

[garygid]

Using the CARWINGS kWh nunbers (too low), will make it appear like your efficiency is way too low.

There are losses going into the battery, which probably "holds" 24 kWh. However, remember that there are also more losses when recovering energy from the battery, before the energy can actually be used.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ok my 21 kwh statement is a lame attempt to justify what is appearing to be a very poor charging efficiency. i dont know if its just 120 or what? but it aint looking good.

Assuming that the charging efficiency is the difference between the energy used at the plug (what Blink shows) and what Leaf shows as the efficiency - I see wildly varying numbers - from low 60 to nearly unity.

How are you calculating the charging efficiency ?

distance traveled divided by power from the wall
over
combined results from daily trip resets and carwings. on MPK ratings.

actually, take that back. forget carwings, i pretty much ignore them. i only log in about once a week to see if i am in top 100 for anything.

 

[AndyH]

Thanks very much gents. While I look forward to first-hand experience, your reports on energy use have me asking what Carwings is smoking.

Will the real energy number please stand up!

 

[bsavall]

I did my first experiment with turtle mode, and can confirm that when you get turtle, you are REALLY in trouble.

My experience was:

Turtle mode = <0.5 mile (surface street)
Very Low Battery = ~5 miles (surface streets)
Low battery = ~15 miles (surface street)

75 estimated range = 70 miles (ECO mode) combined HWY and surface streets till dead (aka turtle on back).

NOTE: heater and stereo stayed on all of the time!!

Started out the day with an estimated range of 75 miles (which went to 85 when going downhill in eco mode). When the odometer got to 55.1 miles I got the low battery alert and the dash showed I had 8 miles left. Got off the freeway and drove the surface streets for a while and at 65.2 miles I got the Very Low battery alert. HHhhmmmm...time to get closer to home? Cranked up the heat and made it to my neighborhood, but no turtle as of yet. Did circles around the block, until I got turtle just as I drove past my house. NOTE: at no time did the heater, or the stereo shut off. Made it around the block one more time (0.4 miles) then pulled into my driveway. I was a bit to close to the side of the garage, and so went to back out and retry....and the LEAF shutdown with the car halfway in the garage. I had just enough length from the Blink cord to reach (~18 inches to spare!).

After 5 minutes of Blink charge, there was not enough juice to power the car. After an additional 20 minutes, I was able to pull into the garage.

I won't be doing that again. And not surprisingly have lost my LEAF driving privileges for a while

Brad

 

[Boomer23]

Please excuse me for posting this in two threads (also in the I Beat the EPA... thread), but I worked really hard, emotionally at least, to get this data:


Here's a report of today's drive from 100% charge to turtle mode: Bottom line - 86.5 miles.
Temperatures between 60 and 70 deg F
No A/C use
No freeway driving
All trips in D except where noted in ECO

I wasn't keeping close track of miles until 65.4 miles, so the earlier events are estimates using Google Maps.

Start of day: Charge = 100%, range showing: 12 bars remaining, 104 miles
Breakfast at the beach: round trip 15 miles, 9 bars remaining, 77 miles
Bank run: round trip 6 miles (total 21 miles), 8 bars remaining, 70 miles
Fun drive: round trip 39 miles (total 60 miles) 2 bars remaining, 22 miles (Some ECO on downhills to improve regen.)
Question: Would you leave for an 11 mile round trip with 2 red bars and 22 miles on the display? We decided to go for it, in ECO.
Movie theater: round trip 11 miles ECO (total 71 miles) 1 bar remaining, 9 miles
Driving around near the house to get to turtle mode, all in D mode, headlights turned on, low speeds in neighborhood:
at 71.6 miles, 8 miles remaining - began flashing
at 73 miles, 7 miles remaining - flashing
at 74.2 miles, 6 miles remainng - flashing
at 76.7 miles, zero bars
at 77.2 miles, 5 miles remaining - flashing, visual displays showing low battery, asking if we want guidance to charge point
at 77.9 miles, dashboard lights dimmed
at 78.3 miles, 4 miles remaining - flashing
at 78.6 miles, 5 miles remaining - flashing
at 78.9 miles, 4 miles remaining - flashing
at 81.1 miles, --- displayed, voice notice that battery is very low, asking if we want guidance
at 84 miles, turned on heat to get to turtle faster
at 86.4 miles, turtle mode, display that motor power is limited
at 86.5 miles, pulled into driveway and stopped, put into Park and applied parking brake.

Car would no longer go into D or R gear but beeped instead and stayed in N.
With brake applied, car wouldn't turn off. But with foot removed from brake, car turned off.
Plugged in EVSE connector, dash lights flash normally indicating EVSE plugged in.

Overall trip economy displayed in car: 4.0 mi/kWh on dash display, 4.1 mi/kWh on central touch screen

 

[Kataphn]

Thanks, Boomer for this data. Very helpful to me.

 

[mwalsh]

Boomer, thou art a brave man!

 

[occ]

Please excuse me for posting this in two threads (also in the I Beat the EPA... thread), but I worked really hard, emotionally at least, to get this data:


Here's a report of today's drive from 100% charge to turtle mode: Bottom line - 86.5 miles.
Temperatures between 60 and 70 deg F
No A/C use
No freeway driving
All trips in D except where noted in ECO
...

Great data point Boomer! Very helpful.

Question: No freeway driving, and only ~86 miles. Would you say you were driving "normally" like you would in and ICE car, or were you kinda driving with efficiency in mind, even if it was only in the back of your mind?

I'm wondering if I can make an 87 miles trip home from the dealer (75 freeway, 12 miles surface suburban streets) when I get mine. Seems like all owners experience and data point so far say I should be able to make it if I keep the freeway speed to no more than 60 mph, and no CC. What do you guys think?

 

[corwin]

Please excuse me for posting this in two threads (also in the I Beat the EPA... thread), but I worked really hard, emotionally at least, to get this data:


Here's a report of today's drive from 100% charge to turtle mode: Bottom line - 86.5 miles.
Temperatures between 60 and 70 deg F
No A/C use
No freeway driving
All trips in D except where noted in ECO
...

Great data point Boomer! Very helpful.

Question: No freeway driving, and only ~86 miles. Would you say you were driving "normally" like you would in and ICE car, or were you kinda driving with efficiency in mind, even if it was only in the back of your mind?

I'm wondering if I can make an 87 miles trip home from the dealer (75 freeway, 12 miles surface suburban streets) when I get mine. Seems like all owners experience and data point so far say I should be able to make it if I keep the freeway speed to no more than 60 mph, and no CC. What do you guys think?

You should have no problems. See my report from yesterday (last post on the page).
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3224&start=10

 

[Boomer23]

Question: No freeway driving, and only ~86 miles. Would you say you were driving "normally" like you would in and ICE car, or were you kinda driving with efficiency in mind, even if it was only in the back of your mind?

It was a mix of driving styles. Fairly conservative on the morning trips, largely because Mrs. Boomer doesn't like G forces and I kind of like driving smoothly in traffic. Then the fun drive was just me heading for my favorite twisty road in the hills. That part was just driving like I would in an ICE car until I got to the twisty road. The fun part was driving between 40 and 45 on the twisty part where the speed limit is 35 and enjoying the feel of the car's torque as I accelerated out of turns. First leg was mostly downhill, though not steep. The return leg of that road was back up the hill, but I had to slow down when a truck pulled out in front of me, and that killed the fun on the rest of the trip back to the main highway, so I drove more slowly there. Then driving back home on the highway had some downhill stretches where I used ECO to regen more and I drove gently to conserve power. The drive to and from the movies was all in ECO and slower than most traffic. And the last part was all in neighborhoods in D, topping out at not much more than 25 mph and not really able to push it hard for safety as I drained the batteries.

 

[Adrian]

Yesterday is the closest I got to turtle. I decided I was going to drive like I would if I was driving my Civic GX and not pay attention to speed, A/C use, etc. Drove 75-85 mph most of the way to and back from work, enjoying the carpool lane, with A/C on. L1 charged at work for about 5 hours; my commute on this longer route (with carpool the whole way) is about 80 miles.

As I got off the freeway on my way home, the low battery warning came at 15 miles range (2 bars). The the range started dropping much quicker; about 1 mile for every .2-.3 miles driven. Got to my garage with 7 miles remaining, no turtle. Maybe I'll experience turtle next time. It's amazing to me what a difference driving habits make. I have driven to work and back without charging at work and had 20 miles remaining when I was taking it easy.