NC Leaf Owners

[lpickup]

So I talked to one of the ABB reps for a few minutes before going into the show. IIRC he mentioned that one of their L III chargers cost somewhere around $25,000, and "what a deal it would be" for gas stations to install them. When I asked about the necessary infrastructure required for L III chargers, he agreed that could be a bit of a barrier to adoption in the near term.

I'm guessing he didn't, but did he mention the infrastructure requirements specifically? I'd be willing to bet that a gas station (and most typical commercial properties) already have the necessary infrastructure which would basically be 480V service. I don't even think 3-phase power is a requirement, but I would guess that a gas station would have that anyway.

I think the bigger barrier, at this point, is a business model that would allow the owner to make money. 24kWh of power is 24kWh of power regardless of how fast it's delivered. That represents about $2.50 in "fuel" costs as compared to how much we pay to charge at home. Of course the convenience factor is worth something. So let's say they can get away with charging $10 for a charge. Assuming $7 of that is profit after they pay their electric bill (they do have to pay demand charges to cover the instantaneous power requirements, which can get VERY expensive), that's still a lot of charges to pay for the equipment (over 3500). Even if there were a line of EVs waiting to charge 24 hours a day, at 30 minutes/charge (60 charges per day), they're only going to make $420/day on this and it will take several months to just pay off the equipment. At this point I would be willing to wager in NC they might get 1-2 customers a day, and maybe in the next 5 years that will climb to 10/day. That's only $70/day.

HOWEVER, think of this: the customer is captive for 30 minutes while their car is charging. I think the chances are pretty good that in the right setting you can get them to buy something that's going to make more money than the $7 they'll make charging your car. Some gas stations (like Sheetz) that have a pseudo-restaurant inside might be able to make money this way, but I think the real "killer app" for DC QC stations is going to be restaurants and coffee shops and other stores that have relatively high profit margin items for sale and would occupy a customer for 30 minutes or so.

 

[Razorbil]

Hello folks. This seems to be the spot for the NC folks. Anybody on here in Western NC?

Also, I had someone today tell me that pure electric cars (Leaf, Fit, Fusion, etc.) were exempt from the yearly NC vehicle inspection. That does not sound right since they do have to still check the other items (tires, wipers, lights, etc), right?

 

[NuclearLeaf]

Hello folks. This seems to be the spot for the NC folks. Anybody on here in Western NC?

Also, I had someone today tell me that pure electric cars (Leaf, Fit, Fusion, etc.) were exempt from the yearly NC vehicle inspection. That does not sound right since they do have to still check the other items (tires, wipers, lights, etc), right?

They are exempt from the emission inspecting, but the safety inspection is still required, it is around $10.

 

[Razorbil]

Hello folks. This seems to be the spot for the NC folks. Anybody on here in Western NC?

Also, I had someone today tell me that pure electric cars (Leaf, Fit, Fusion, etc.) were exempt from the yearly NC vehicle inspection. That does not sound right since they do have to still check the other items (tires, wipers, lights, etc), right?

They are exempt from the emission inspecting, but the safety inspection is still required, it is around $10.

That's not bad at all. Thank you.

 

[morawski99]

Has anyone else in the Triad area seen a phantom charging station show up on the list of stations at PTI airport? I went looking for this Level 2 station the other day but couldn't find it...to my dismay...This would actually work out very nice if they actually had one there since I travel for work quite a bit and would like to be able to drive my Leaf instead of my ICE.

 

[lspooz]

Just a few quick comments: at the NC Natural History Museum in Raleigh there's a new L2 Chargepoint parking space right near the 4-story Earth globe: didn't show up on googling but it's there and seems operative [the 6 in the parking garage a block away did appear], and it wasn't ICE'd!

BTW, I spotted 3 LEAFs in Greensboro over the Easter weekend [2 blacks and a white] - a personal record

 

[jimmyz80]

Just a few quick comments: at the NC Natural History Museum in Raleigh there's a new L2 Chargepoint parking space right near the 4-story Earth globe: didn't show up on googling but it's there and seems operative [the 6 in the parking garage a block away did appear], and it wasn't ICE'd!

BTW, I spotted 3 LEAFs in Greensboro over the Easter weekend [2 blacks and a white] - a personal record

I'm pretty sure those are listed on plugshare. It's a great resource for finding stations in downtown Raleigh, if you haven't checked it out.

 

[Deleted member 6912]

Just a few quick comments: at the NC Natural History Museum in Raleigh there's a new L2 Chargepoint parking space right near the 4-story Earth globe: didn't show up on googling but it's there and seems operative [the 6 in the parking garage a block away did appear], and it wasn't ICE'd!

BTW, I spotted 3 LEAFs in Greensboro over the Easter weekend [2 blacks and a white] - a personal record

I charged there a few weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon. It was almost ICE'd, there was a small car parked half-way into the space, I backed up to within an inch of his bumper and fit inside the lines and the cord reached. As his rear wheels were against the curb that juts out into the street I don't know how he got out, hopefully he got the picture.

I needed a card to use it, I think it was a Blink. No cost but needed it to unlock the connector.

BTW I spotted 4 LEAFs plus mine all charging in a row at the American Tobacco district when I went to see a play at the DPAC. It was like a row of baby birds with their mouths open. It's not unusual to see all 4 chargers at SAS in use by LEAFs and there has been one at the Umstead lately (and a Tesla).

 

[jimmyz80]

Just a few quick comments: at the NC Natural History Museum in Raleigh there's a new L2 Chargepoint parking space right near the 4-story Earth globe: didn't show up on googling but it's there and seems operative [the 6 in the parking garage a block away did appear], and it wasn't ICE'd!

BTW, I spotted 3 LEAFs in Greensboro over the Easter weekend [2 blacks and a white] - a personal record

I charged there a few weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon. It was almost ICE'd, there was a small car parked half-way into the space, I backed up to within an inch of his bumper and fit inside the lines and the cord reached. As his rear wheels were against the curb that juts out into the street I don't know how he got out, hopefully he got the picture.

I needed a card to use it, I think it was a Blink. No cost but needed it to unlock the connector.

BTW I spotted 4 LEAFs plus mine all charging in a row at the American Tobacco district when I went to see a play at the DPAC. It was like a row of baby birds with their mouths open. It's not unusual to see all 4 chargers at SAS in use by LEAFs and there has been one at the Umstead lately (and a Tesla).

There was a similar scene today when I ventured to Chapel Hill for the first time with the LEAF. We parked in the first of four spots at the Chapel Hill Visitors Bureau on Franklin Street, and were the only ones charging. When I came back to the car, three of the four spots were in use. Two LEAFs and one Volt. I hope chargers can keep being added so we don't end up fighting over them in the near future.

 

[jimmyz80]

Just thought I'd take a second to post a fun example of how well the range of the LEAF works here in the Triangle region of NC. We left Apex with 100% charge this morning, drove to Chapel Hill for lunch, charged for about 90 minutes while eating, continued on to Fearrington Village, then to Raleigh Executive Airport in Sanford, and back home. Pulling into the driveway I had 3 bars still remaining, and 17 miles on the GOM. Total distance traveled: 83 miles!

I've gotta say, when you can charge while at your destination, there's very little you can't do with the LEAF.

Map of today's route:

http://goo.gl/maps/s5zcV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[muleferg]

Charger ALERT.......... The Charging Station have been removed from the Alamance County Rest Area. Another step backwards for NC. :evil: :evil: :evil: "The Pope" as in Art Pope rules the State

Mule

 

[w6vms]

I used one of the L2 stations at Rex Hospital in Raleigh (incidentally, both well marked as EV only, neither was ICE'd).

These were listed on the Recargo app, but the on-board nav did not have them listed. They might have them now, I guess.

I added a brief review to the Recargo app, for the benefit of others (no one had "checked in" yet).

They are Eaton L2 units, found near the entrance to the parking deck by the main entrance to the hospital, to the right and just past the handicapped spots.

 

[MTNRanger]

I used one of the L2 stations at Rex Hospital in Raleigh (incidentally, both well marked as EV only, neither was ICE'd).

These were listed on the Recargo app, but the on-board nav did not have them listed. They might have them now, I guess.

I added a brief review to the Recargo app, for the benefit of others (no one had "checked in" yet).

They are Eaton L2 units, found near the entrance to the parking deck by the main entrance to the hospital, to the right and just past the handicapped spots.

I added Rex to Plugshare back in January. You can grab my photos off Plugshare and put them on Recargo if you want. Personally, I like Plugshare (easy to add stations) and Carstations (they have more red tape when adding stations).

 

[lpickup]

Legislative alert: Our state legislators are bound and determined to make sure we head the wrong way w.r.t. Electric Vehicles in NC. There is yet another bill introduced in the NC Senate that will inhibit EV sales here in NC. SB 327 will prevent Tesla Motors from selling their vehicles to North Carolinians through their web site or opening a Tesla store within the state. There will be a meeting of the Commerce committee to discuss the bill TOMORROW, May 7 at 11:00am in room 1027 of the legislative building. Supporters are welcome! Please contact your senator and representative and ask them to support amending SB 327 so as not to restrict sales of zero-emission all-electric vehicles by a US based manufacturer directly to North Carolina consumers.

For more info, see:
http://teslamotorsnc.com/take-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[lpickup]

There will be a meeting of the Commerce committee to discuss the bill TOMORROW, May 7 at 11:00am in room 1027 of the legislative building.

I just received notification that SB 327 has been dropped from today's agenda. That's all I have at this point.

 

[greengate]

There will be a meeting of the Commerce committee to discuss the bill TOMORROW, May 7 at 11:00am in room 1027 of the legislative building.

I just received notification that SB 327 has been dropped from today's agenda. That's all I have at this point.

Is there no Environmental Commission in the state to bring this to the attention of?

Think of all the ways to bring this to the attention of the public. USA Today has a state blurb in each edition. How would the powers at be feel about seeing this in the "National News?"

Write to the news papers, being sure to identify the sponsor and supporters of the bill.

Recognizing the problem is Step 1. Doing something about it is Step 2. Unfortunately, most people...if they even recognize step 1..do nothing about it other than complain and where does that go?

 

[lpickup]

Is there no Environmental Commission in the state to bring this to the attention of?

Oh, you don't want to know the sad state of things in NC at the moment. I don't really like to start political wars so I shouldn't bring this up, but after the last election the Republicans now control both houses and the governorship and I think the sense is they think they can get away with quite a lot (for the record I'm "undeclared" and will say that Democrats like to play these political games as well when they can).

Anyway, the house brought forth a bill earlier (HB 298) that sought to repeal an earlier law that set renewable energy targets of 12.5% by 2020. The house bill was dropped from committee, but the senate version (SB 365) is still in process.

There is also Senate bill 710 which seeks to impose a $100 flat fee on EV owners so they pay their "fair share" of highway tax. All 7 sponsors of that bill make up a 7-6 majority in the Transportation committee, so that one's pretty likely to be rubber stamped there.

 

[greengate]

Is there no Environmental Commission in the state to bring this to the attention of?

Oh, you don't want to know the sad state of things in NC at the moment. I don't really like to start political wars so I shouldn't bring this up, but after the last election the Republicans now control both houses and the governorship and I think the sense is they think they can get away with quite a lot (for the record I'm "undeclared" and will say that Democrats like to play these political games as well when they can).

Anyway, the house brought forth a bill earlier (HB 298) that sought to repeal an earlier law that set renewable energy targets of 12.5% by 2020. The house bill was dropped from committee, but the senate version (SB 365) is still in process.

There is also Senate bill 710 which seeks to impose a $100 flat fee on EV owners so they pay their "fair share" of highway tax. All 7 sponsors of that bill make up a 7-6 majority in the Transportation committee, so that one's pretty likely to be rubber stamped there.

Politics are as they are. There was a time when the people actually went to the pols and elected their constituents, but with less than half even bothering to vote and the other influences affecting the situation, we are in a position to "deserve what we get," as someone once said. (maybe my mother? Sounds familiar!!)

Setting that aside, there will come a time when as EV operators, we will be included into the way we make a contribution to the highway trust fund's. This flat fee is one way of addressing this issue. There's a lot of discussion on a national as well as a state level on how to deal with this. Gas usage is down..funds are down. That seems to be a fact. "Til then, I see it as our having been given a break for the early up front investment we have each made this regard.

So is the $100 punitive or is it right action? Given the other stuff that's been reported on here, it looks punitive to me.

 

[lpickup]

So is the $100 punitive or is it right action? Given the other stuff that's been reported on here, it looks punitive to me.

Based on the apparent partisan-ness of the bill's sponsors, I would definitely say it's punitive.

However, I do agree that EV owners need to pay their fair share. But a $100 flat fee is far from fair.

The gas tax approach is good for a couple of reasons:

1) Because it's gasoline consumption-related, people that drive more miles (and thus use the highways more) will generally pay more than those that don't. The flat EV fee charges the EV driver that drives 4 miles/day the same as someone that drives 60 miles/day. This is not fair.

2) Because it's gasoline consumption-related, people that drive heavier (and thus more damaging to the roads) and less fuel efficient vehicles are charged more than those that drive lighter, fuel-efficient vehicles. This is fair considering the relative damage to the roads, and doubly fair if you consider the impact to the environment. Even assuming average miles/year driven, the flat EV fee puts the EV driver in a class comparable to a car that gets ~45mpg. Not bad, but I personally feel that the environmental incentives ought to be part of the equation (although this would require re-calibrating periodically as the nation's vehicle fleet's efficiency improves). Additionally, the way the bill is written, a Chevy Volt would be immune from the fee (the wording is specifically the car has to be SOLELY powered by electricity). So in theory a Volt that is driven on electric 98% of the time would pay only a few dollars of gas tax and no flat fee, but an entirely electric vehicle would pay $100. This is not fair.

A fair solution, in my opinion, would be to use annual mileage as part of the calculation of the fee, and scale the result by the rated MPGe of the EV so as to put the EV on par with gas vehicles and keep the vehicle size/environmental effect as part of the formula. By my calculations, the fee for an EV like the LEAF driven 10,000 miles a year would be around $37.50. Opponents of this approach say that tracking mileage would be too cumbersome, yet on the official state inspection report which has to be performed within 90 days of registration renewal and is transmitted to the state DMV is the odometer reading. It seems like it would be an almost trivial matter to incorporate the mileage into the fee.

I also think that for the time being (until there are X number of registered EVs on the roads) that EVs should be exempt from the fee as a way to provide an incentive. But that's where we start to get into the political debate, so I'd certainly willing to compromise on that point. But the way the bill is currently written it is simply completely unfair.

 

[greengate]

So is the $100 punitive or is it right action? Given the other stuff that's been reported on here, it looks punitive to me.

Based on the apparent partisan-ness of the bill's sponsors, I would definitely say it's punitive.

However, I do agree that EV owners need to pay their fair share. But a $100 flat fee is far from fair.

The gas tax approach is good for a couple of reasons:

1) Because it's gasoline consumption-related, people that drive more miles (and thus use the highways more) will generally pay more than those that don't. The flat EV fee charges the EV driver that drives 4 miles/day the same as someone that drives 60 miles/day. This is not fair.

2) Because it's gasoline consumption-related, people that drive heavier (and thus more damaging to the roads) and less fuel efficient vehicles are charged more than those that drive lighter, fuel-efficient vehicles. This is fair considering the relative damage to the roads, and doubly fair if you consider the impact to the environment. Even assuming average miles/year driven, the flat EV fee puts the EV driver in a class comparable to a car that gets ~45mpg. Not bad, but I personally feel that the environmental incentives ought to be part of the equation (although this would require re-calibrating periodically as the nation's vehicle fleet's efficiency improves). Additionally, the way the bill is written, a Chevy Volt would be immune from the fee (the wording is specifically the car has to be SOLELY powered by electricity). So in theory a Volt that is driven on electric 98% of the time would pay only a few dollars of gas tax and no flat fee, but an entirely electric vehicle would pay $100. This is not fair.

A fair solution, in my opinion, would be to use annual mileage as part of the calculation of the fee, and scale the result by the rated MPGe of the EV so as to put the EV on par with gas vehicles and keep the vehicle size/environmental effect as part of the formula. By my calculations, the fee for an EV like the LEAF driven 10,000 miles a year would be around $37.50. Opponents of this approach say that tracking mileage would be too cumbersome, yet on the official state inspection report which has to be performed within 90 days of registration renewal and is transmitted to the state DMV is the odometer reading. It seems like it would be an almost trivial matter to incorporate the mileage into the fee.

I also think that for the time being (until there are X number of registered EVs on the roads) that EVs should be exempt from the fee as a way to provide an incentive. But that's where we start to get into the political debate, so I'd certainly willing to compromise on that point. But the way the bill is currently written it is simply completely unfair.

Only viewing your state and its politics from afar, I would agree that it's punitive.