New Owner Charging On The Cheap

[bamamarc77]

In my 3rd full day as a leaf owner...what an amazing car! Been charging only with the trickle but now it's time to go 240v. Should have the 240 outlet this week and ordered the evse upgrade today. In birmingham at this point the only chargers are at nissan dealers so gonna be getting to know them while i wait for my upgraded charger. If all goes well should be around 600 bucks for the whole enchilada. Also gonna annoy my boss to get a 240 outlet outside my office and then i'm usurping whoever's parking space is closest.
Been reading a few threads about 20% loss of capacity in 1 year not covered by the nissan warranty. Honda has already been sued for mpg on the civic hybrid being less than promised...seems as this would be virtually the same thing on the surface of it.
marc

 

[DeaneG]

Good luck, I did get my employer to put in a 120V outlet, which is good enough when parked there most of the day. Also the most important part, they mounted an "EV Parking Only" sign!

I have 14 months and 11K miles on my Leaf and haven't noticed any battery capacity degradation at all. I always charge to 80% and try not to leave it there for long. I use the Charge End timer set to 7am, with the aim to have the car ready to go just in time for me to leave for work.

 

[Chieftan68]

That Honda Insight suit in California was in Small Claims Court (the woman was trying to get around the expense and uncertainty of a single or class action suit). She won but it was immediately overturned. Now a dead issue. That ain't going to work. Remember the EPA mantra, "your mileage may vary."

BTW, I owned a 2001 Insight (first generation) and it got between 51 and 55 mpg day-in; day-out. Sold it once I got the Leaf. I owned it for 18 months and sold it for the same price as I paid for it. $4 plus a gallon of gas is hard to swallow in sunny Cal so mileage stretchers like the Insight hold their value.

I'm new to the group as well and I have been seeing some posts that indicate lost capacity in select cases, with varying miles driven and time owned. My 2011 pre-owned (rental) had 5k miles on it and was 15 months old when purchased in mid May. Since it was used as a rental, I assume it was probably left on full charge all the time. No degradation of capacity as of yet.

 

[bamamarc77]

I think the honda suit was frivolous as well but honda also had to shell out a settlement of over 3 grand to the folks who owned civic hybrids aside from the small claims suit. In the leaf's case however for the folks who have lost 15-20% capacity in a year, not sure nissan could defend that one as long as the owners didnt do anything kooky to the car. Hoping the whole deal is just an anomaly but i'm definitely gonna stop the charge at 80% from now on.
My oldest son is taking his scion xb to college resulting in my second son now needing the insight to drive to high school. Opened up the great opportunity to get my leaf.

 

[TomT]

Actually, I wish Honda had had their ass handed to them on a plate for the way that handled the Civic Hybrids. They had serious battery issues and knew it, and rather than fix them under warranty, they reprogrammed the software so that they would run on gas much more and use less of the battery capacity. This, of course, caused gas mileage to plummet. At one point, California was also looking at them for a possible violation of their emissions certification for this same reason. Honda has a very large black eye from this one...

I think the honda suit was frivolous as well but honda also had to shell out a settlement of over 3 grand to the folks who owned civic hybrids aside from the small claims suit.

 

[bamamarc77]

Guess the suit wasnt so frivolous after all. Love my insight though. Surely nissan will learn from honda's mistakes and not stonewall owners with legitimate problems.

 

[garygid]

Nissan simply says that you should expect to see Capacity loss,
and that they do not warranty Battery Pack Capacity.

 

[cwerdna]

That Honda Insight suit in California was in Small Claims Court (the woman was trying to get around the expense and uncertainty of a single or class action suit). She won but it was immediately overturned. Now a dead issue. That ain't going to work. Remember the EPA mantra, "your mileage may vary."

I think you mean Civic Hybrid: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/05/09/honda-wins-appeal-in-civic-hybrid-fuel-mileage-case/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[MaxPower]

Nissan simply says that you should expect to see Capacity loss,
and that they do not warranty Battery Pack Capacity.

Stuff like this is why I am leasing instead of buying.

Also I expect to see lots of improvements in 3 years. Maybe the Tesla SL will be available for immediate sale by then .

 

[bamamarc77]

Was gonna lease as well but ended up buying used because of a good deal. I realize nissan makes the distinction between Battery malfunction and battery capacity but i'm not sure from a legal standpoint there's a real difference if someone loses 20% in a year. Honda got nailed for lower mpg than epa estimates and lower battery capacity results in lower mpg equivalents. anyway seems to me like a battery replacement under warranty would be appropriate. i'm not a lawyer though. Just a new owner who loves his leaf.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Capacity loss is fully disclosed in the warranty, it is very clear. The battery in an EV is a wear item not a gallon of gas. Just as brakes and mechanical parts wear so does the pack and it is also variable. Those ice parts are similarly covered for defects but not wear. I find it amusing to see comments or surprise about capacity coverage by owners that never bothered reading the warranty at all prior to buying the car. Regardless this has little to do with inexpensive charging, there are several topics on this already under "battery warranty" with plenty of denial and consumers that do not read before making a purchase. For even newer buyers we have something called the "Google" for researching a purchase. There is also a lease option.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/search.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Herm]

what is the next stage after denial?

 

[Randy]

Acceptance

 

[Nubo]

what is the next stage after denial?

The 5 stages of grief:

denial
anger
bargaining
depression
acceptance


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubler-Ross_model

 

[Chieftan68]

That Honda Insight suit in California was in Small Claims Court (the woman was trying to get around the expense and uncertainty of a single or class action suit). She won but it was immediately overturned. Now a dead issue. That ain't going to work. Remember the EPA mantra, "your mileage may vary."

I think you mean Civic Hybrid: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/05/09/honda-wins-appeal-in-civic-hybrid-fuel-mileage-case/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

You are correct. I am wrong. They kept on saying "Honda hybrid" in the news so I incorrectly assumed it was an Insight, not the Civic. In any case, the gist was EPA mileage figures and the famous "your mileage may vary." The software update mentioned in other posts was not done until 2010. Ms. Peters purchased her Civic in 2006. The cause of her poor mileage, I believe, was the heavy right foot. Does anyone believe the EPA anyway?

As for the software update, based on what I've read, Honda stiffed the customer for sure. But for Heather Peters and others, at some point you have to quit "kicking at the pricks." You are not going to really win against Honda and I'm afraid if the Leaf becomes a Buffalo, you are not going to win against Nissan either.

 

[dandrewk]

From reading the warranty - it only says "gradual" loss is not covered. That's the key term, and only they can define it. If an owner experiences a huge capacity loss that cannot be explained by abuse or overuse, they'd be hard pressed to deny that it was due to a defect.

How many ICE cars have a warranty protecting against "gradual" compression loss or losing MPG's over time?

 

[kg4bec]

In my 3rd full day as a leaf owner...what an amazing car! Been charging only with the trickle but now it's time to go 240v. Should have the 240 outlet this week and ordered the evse upgrade today. In birmingham at this point the only chargers are at nissan dealers so gonna be getting to know them while i wait for my upgraded charger. If all goes well should be around 600 bucks for the whole enchilada. Also gonna annoy my boss to get a 240 outlet outside my office and then i'm usurping whoever's parking space is closest.
Been reading a few threads about 20% loss of capacity in 1 year not covered by the nissan warranty. Honda has already been sued for mpg on the civic hybrid being less than promised...seems as this would be virtually the same thing on the surface of it.
marc

Hey Marc,

Welcome to LEAF ownership here in Birmingham! I've had mine since December last year and I have nearly 6000 miles on it now. I LOVE THIS CAR!

There are a few of us in the area, so maybe we can get together for a breakfast or lunch meetup sometime. Oh, and BTW, good choice on the white. I think it's the best color too.

Cheers/73, Bert/KG4BEC

 

[KJD]

If you really want to do charging on the cheap, then you need to build or buy a carport like this one.

http://www.electricvehiclesolarcharger.com/solar_carport_charging_systems.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[bamamarc77]

now that is a cool solar setup, although in alabama i'd have protesters outside my house......glad to be part of the new owner crew in birmingham......only took me 2 days of posting on the forum to get a persnickety reply from the moderator, is that about average?
marc

 

[planet4ever]

From reading the warranty - it only says "gradual" loss is not covered. That's the key term, and only they can define it.

We've been around this many times, and any judge can define it by looking at a dictionary. "Gradual" is not the opposite of "fast". The opposite of "fast" is "slow". "Gradual" is the opposite of "sudden". Sudden loss is covered. Fast loss is not covered. If you lose 1% of your battery capacity per day for 10 days, that is very fast, but it is also gradual, because it goes by gradations. These words come from the Latin word gradus which meant step. So gradual is stepwise.

Ray