Newbie to Electric Cars, LEAF and Lease in California

[sqnewton]

Hello,

I am a newbie to all of the above and I was wondering how good of a deal is going for a leased LEAF. I live in the south Bay area and the distributor is offering me a lease with:

- $0 down
- $299/mo lease for 39 months (first month no payment) and 12.000 mi/year. With 8.375% tax it is $324/mo.
- $859 once pre-pay maintenance to cover the 39 months (assume + tax = $931)
- $2,500 cash back
- Total over 39 mo is $9,813 lease payment
- road assistance included for the full term

I am considering extra costs of $0.14/kW (calculated from my bill), $500 of ding and cosmetic fixes at the end of lease (offered by Nissan), DMV registration (year 2 and 3) of $350 (estimated?) and insurance of $800/6-months (from insurance company).

I have a Honda Accord 96 with 130,000 and between 28-30 mi/galon (measured) and lately I am driving avg. of ~20mi/day ~ 8,000/year.

Is this really a good deal because of the car itself, the lease, the technology?

I appreciate your comments and feedback. Thank you!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not the best deal out there, and there is one pure profit makers for the dealer that I WOULD NOT BUY AT ANY PRICE. You don't need the options that will available on a 2013 (heat pump / 6.6 charger) for your small driving needs and mild climate.

- $0 down (smart)

- $299/mo lease for 39 months (first month no payment) and 12.000 mi/year. With 8.375% tax it is $324/mo. (I personally would limit to 36 months to stay in the warranty period)

- $859 once pre-pay maintenance to cover the 39 months (assume + tax = $931) (DO NOT BUY!! There is no real maintenance beyond rotating tires. PURE PROFIT FOR DEALER)

- $2,500 cash back (you need to apply to California Center for Sustainable Energy for this)

- Total over 39 mo is $9,813 lease payment

- road assistance included for the full term (this is from Nissan; no cost to dealer)

I have a Honda Accord 96 with 130,000 and between 28-30 mi/galon (measured) and lately I am driving avg. of ~20mi/day ~ 8,000/year.

Time to retire that beast. You are a perfect candidate for a 2012 LEAF.

 

[x10guy]

The deal is OK but there are better deals out there. I'm also in the LA area and when I was shopping for a lease earlier in the month I got plenty of offers for Zero drive off and under $300 (INCLUDING taxes). Also not quite sure about the maintenance fee. I haven't had the leaf for very long but my understanding is that the maintenance costs is very low.

 

[Boomer23]

Shop around. This dealer seems like they are into misleading the innocent. As Tony said, have nothing to do with a deal that includes pre-paid maintenance. There is almost no maintenance on this car, and you'll get almost nothing in return for your $931.

I've heard of lease deals close to $200/mo recently, but I don't know if those still exist. Of course, lease deals include lots of parameters, and you definitely want to pay as little down as possible. Some of the sweet-looking lease monthly payments include a large down payment, so watch out for that.

As far as the $2500 cash back, is this from the dealer, or is the dealer just stating that you'll get the $2,500 back from California and trying to claim that's part of the deal for you, as Tony also said. Everyone gets the CA rebate as long as you buy or lease for at least 36 months. (In case you're not aware, get a copy of the fully signed and completed lease document as well as a copy of the DMV document before it gets taped to your windshield. You'll need both of those documents to send in to the CCSE in San Diego to claim your $2,500 check. Be sure to get at least a 36 month lease to qualify for this reimbursement.)

One way to get competitive bids is to go through a site like Cars.com or Edmunds, which provide the option of sending emails to the internet managers of various dealerships and asking for their best deal. Many dealers will post their inventories online, so you can check which dealers have the largest LEAF inventories. Those dealers will often be the most anxious to cut you a deal. Work by email and play them against each other to get the best deal before you go in to the dealership, otherwise they'll try to work their magic on you in person.

 

[Randy]

Not sure if South Bay is in the LA or San Francisco areas.

I would recommend that you call Danny Truong at Fontana Nissan. They are offering $7500 off MSRP on a LEAF purchase, or $12,275 in total savings on a LEAF lease (plus you get the state $2500 rebate yourself) and through Sunday they are offering an Aerovironment home charging kit for free (not installed). The charger is worth several hundred $$$.

Even if you had to pay to ship it to San Francisco area, it's still a great deal...

Danny has posted on the forum, but his number is 909-574-2290 or email [email protected]

They are great folks at Fontana Nissan.....

Randy

 

[Caracalover]

I buy cars, so I won't comment on the lease.

As for what you should know about the electric experience is how different electric is to gasoline.

With gasoline you use more than 75% (With your current car likely closer to 85%) of the energy potential to create heat. With an electric car you waste almost no energy, but the available energy you begin with is roughly equal to the energy in one gallon of gasoline. If you want heat, you use energy for it, rather than get it as an (Expensive) extra like in the car you are used to driving. A/C use is not a concern for the most part, after the cabin is cooled down it draws very little power.

So you do need to use energy with these factors in mind. With your stated commute I see no issues with an 80% charge and even if you forget to plug it in, you will still be able to go to work and back the next day. Try that with only one gallon of gas in your current car, and you will know what range anxiety is. With a full charge you likley could make the RT three times. Things that affect economy will be more pronounced with an electric car, since almost 100% of the energy is used for what you choose to use it for, and rain, snow, hills, speed, etc. are going to require more energy. Again with your driving habits this should not be an issue, but if you drive 70 in the rain with the heat on, don't be shocked when the range meter believes you will run out of energy in just a few more miles. I have seen range in the teens with half a battery remaining. Doesn't mean I didn't make it home, but if you are not prepared for that it can scare you. Change your energy use and you will see the range estimate go up or down - but it is just an estimate - so often it can be ignored or even laughed at. But you do need to plan your daily energy use.

I like to put it this way, you can plan your daily drive, or you can plan your budget. The savings and freedom that you will experience when you go electric are priceless. Freedom from stopping to get gas, freedom from oil changes, freedom from the addiction to oil, etc.

Do check your utility bill to see how close to the next tier you are getting, so you won't have any suprises. If you have a pool, a large house that uses a lot of electricity, and are paying too much for electricity, this might not be as economical as you would like. You will likely use around 100 KWH to drive around every month.



The Leaf will likely be driven more than your current car since it is far cheaper to operate. Will 4000 miles over your current milage be enough? Joy rides are back with this car, so you have been warned and you should at least know what the extra miles might cost you so you can keep smiling on those joy rides.

 

[planet4ever]

I live in the south Bay area and the distributor is offering me a lease with:
<snip>
- $859 once pre-pay maintenance to cover the 39 months
<snip>
I am considering extra costs of $0.14/kW (calculated from my bill)
<snip>
I have a Honda Accord 96 with 130,000 and between 28-30 mi/galon (measured) and lately I am driving avg. of ~20mi/day ~ 8,000/year.

I'm going to assume you mean San Francisco Bay. First I'd like to second what Tony said.

• Try to get a 36 month lease rather than 39 month.
  • Nissan NA provides roadside assistance for 36 months.
  • You are required to get an annual battery check. The first two are free, but if you keep it more than 36 months you'll have to pay for the third one.
  • Except for battery and drive train, the vehicle warranty is 36 months.
  • Do not go less than 36 months, though. If you do you will lose the $2500.
• Do not fall for the pre-pay maintenance.
  • If you turn it in at 36 months your service costs will be less than half that exorbitant price.

But I do want to caution you on your assumption of $0.14/kWh. (By the way, you left off that critical "h". You pay for how much electricity you use, not how fast you use it.) Assuming your service provider is PG&E, you are on the standard E-1 rate, and you live somewhere around San Jose, you get 11 to 11.7 kWh/day as your baseline, and you pay a bit less than $0.13/kWh for that. The next 3kWh or so per day costs nearly $0.15/kWh, so for your average to be $0.14 you must already be over the edge into tier 3. (11kWh at $0.13 plus 3kWh at $0.15 would average only $0.134.)

Now let's see what charging the LEAF will do. Unless you are a very gentle driver you should assume 3 miles travel for each kWh from the wall. From your estimate, that would be an extra 7kWh/day or so. That will push you further up into tier 3 where you pay <gasp> nearly $0.30/kWh.

Don't get me wrong. This doesn't mean you are going to pay more than twice as much for electricity as you used to. The tiers work like income tax brackets -- the first electricity you use in the month is charged at the lower rate. It is only after you get past about 450kWh in a month that you start paying the higher rates. But you will go past that, due to charging the LEAF, and the correct way to think of this is to compare your bill without the LEAF to your bill with the LEAF, and it appears that difference in usage will be billed at about $0.30/kWh.

So, unless you start conserving electricity more or change your rate schedule or get solar panels or learn to drive more efficiently (all of which I recommend), your 8000 miles/year will cost you about $800/year for "fuel". Of course your Accord would use, by your numbers, about 275 gallons of gasoline per year, and if we assume an average of $4.00/gallon over the next three years, that's $1100 for fuel. So the LEAF will still save you; but probably not as much as you were expecting.

You will undoubtedly save a lot more than that by avoiding service costs on that old Accord.

Ray

 

[x10guy]

Now let's see what charging the LEAF will do. Unless you are a very gentle driver you should assume 3 miles travel for each kWh from the wall. From your estimate, that would be an extra 7kWh/day or so. That will push you further up into tier 3 where you pay <gasp> nearly $0.30/kWh...
Ray

Many California utilities offer special rates for EV charging. The best rate most often requires a separate meter which of course costs money to install but if you are committed to EV driving, that is by far the cheapest charging option.

 

[planet4ever]

Many California utilities offer special rates for EV charging. The best rate most often requires a separate meter which of course costs money to install but if you are committed to EV driving, that is by far the cheapest charging option.

For PG&E (most of northern California) the EV rate with a separate meter is E-9B, which is changing radically as of January 2013. I am hesitant to recommend it at this time. See this thread: PG&E / CPUC - Non-Tiered Time Of Use Rates

If you are in a home with a roof where you can put solar panels, I think the best solution may be a PV system with the E-6 solar rate schedule. Try digging through the Official California PG&E Thread.

Ray