Next Car when LEAF Lease Ends?

[alcalira]

I've loved my LEAF from day one--every mile, every minute. And it will be a sad moment when I have to leave the car at the dealership at lease end in a few weeks. I need to replace the LEAF. I've been spoiled by the late-2012 lease deal, with payment in the low 200s for SL. Nothing like that now, unless I downgrade to S, and I don't want to do that.

Best lease deals around now are for VW e-Golf without QC (gotta have QC) and Chevy Spark EV with QC. While the Spark is very different from the LEAF, it has its good points and is really inexpensive and apparently lots of folks like it.

What are other current lessees doing? Another LEAF? A different EV? Going back to liquid fuel?

 

[RonDawg]

Needing/wanting QC is going to be a limiting factor. You can get cheap lease deals and you can get a car with QC, but getting both is a bit difficult at the moment except for the Leaf S and Spark.

If you had gone shopping a few months ago you could have picked up a 2015 Golf SEL (QC included) for $200/month with 7500 miles/year included. Some folks negotiated a similar deal with 10k/year included.

 

[cwerdna]

I've loved my LEAF from day one--every mile, every minute. And it will be a sad moment when I have to leave the car at the dealership at lease end in a few weeks. I need to replace the LEAF.
...
What are other current lessees doing? Another LEAF? A different EV? Going back to liquid fuel?

I bought a used Leaf to replace the one I turned in.

I passed on the car I mentioned at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=429492#p429492. I bought the one at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19362&p=430825&hilit=saga#p430825. I had some posts in that thread in between.

I figured if I leased another, I'll be out a bunch of $ again and have no car in the end. The value of my Leaf won't be 0 at the end, but hopefully I'll come out ahead vs. leasing another for the equivalent amount of time.

At the time, I also considered:
- extending my lease (12 months for the price of 10 was the deal), but I knew I'd need to buy new tires to survive another 12 months, for a car I won't likely have
- buying out my Leaf but after the $6500 discount, it was $3K to $3.5K too high vs. the market, I found. No thanks.
- leasing a Fiat 500e or Spark EV. Latter was ruled out because of only 1 stereo choice and it being supposedly crappy. And, it having only a lame 3.3 kW OBC. I was looking at 3 year leases of the Fiat but although the lease was fairly cheap, it'd be a step backwards in many ways (e.g. afterthought nav unit, no Around View Monitor, much smaller car, bumpier ride I think, etc.) and I'd hit the same tire problem.
- getting a '16 Volt so I could ditch my Prius too - wouldn't be ready in time, and when it was, I was concerned about 1st year of a new generation GM reliability. Yeah yeah, the 1st gen Volt actually did well in this dept but reliability overall for gen 1 has fallen back to average in CR (IIRC). And, GM's 1st year reliability is often dismal and sometimes remains AWFUL.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I've been looking for a used 2013 sv + qc for months, since October. There was one in the 10,000 range. It took many weeks to sell. I thought it would be the first of many. Since then I've seen none anywhere near that price.

It seems that used leaf prices have gone up and priced out of my range. 13-14k is too much for me. Will lose too much value with 200 mile cars coming out next year.

Nissan is baffling as they are making it much more difficult to stay in a leaf.

They are no longer allowing lease extensions.

The earlier $6500 discount on insanely high residuals has been reduced to $5000, essentially a $1500 price increase as the car gets older.

No other EV has become available in my area. I3 and model s and much more expensive.

I'm extremely disappointed that I feel squeezed from all sides. No alternative except to buy a gas car. I didn't think I'd say that. We'll plan to hold on to it for 3 years, sell and one of the new 200+ mile range cars that will certainly be out by then.

We're currently planning a Mini Cooper. Fun with supposedly good resale value. And decent gas mileage. Too bad there's not yet an electric mini.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I recently inherited some money. I could have bought my car off lease, but as Cwerdna notes, I would have paid a steep premium for it, even after the discount, and exhausted my funds. My situation is further complicated by a likely very limited remaining lifespan, and also by wanting a Zero motorcycle. In the end, it appears that spending $5k (plus VPP discount) to lease a 2016, and spending an equal amount on a down payment for a leftover 2015 Zero, will give me the most fun for my dollars, while leaving me quite a few of them. My heirs don't want to inherit a likely 11 bar Leaf, and I don't care if the Zero gets repossessed after I die. I'm going to enjoy the time I have left, with a true 100+ mile Leaf, and a 120 mile range Zero SR, S or even DS. I will definitely miss "Ana" though (named by her DMV license plate) and the virtually trouble-free miles I've driven with her.

 

[Roostre]

OT

 

[TomT]

Since there is nothing out there right now that I actually really want (outside of a Tesla), I've decided to turn in the Leaf in March and just go without until a suitable vehicle shows up... I have another vehicle and a BMW motorcycle (which I used to ride everywhere before the Leaf and which gets around 55MPG) so it won't be a hardship... After my experiences with Nissan, I'd have a hard time justifying another Leaf...

 

[bradbissell]

Decided to lease a 2016 Volt for $205/15k miles/39 months and turn in my month to month 2013 Leaf. The Leaf will go back by the end of the month since I refuse to buy the Leaf with 38k miles for $14.5k after Nissan's not so generous discount. The Volt isn't my first choice in EV (it is a PHEV, ugh). Since I can't afford a Model S, and the lease rates on the 30kwh Leaf are insane, I settled for the Volt. Hopefully the Model 3 will be out when my Volt lease ends in 39 months. I really wish Nissan had released the Leaf2 rather than the 30kwh stop gap car.

 

[kolmstead]

Same here, Tom. It is beginning to appear that Nissan still doesn't have a handle on battery degradation issues. When I look at lack of support for early adopters combined with the probability that new batteries will degrade nearly as fast as the old ones did, I can't generate any interest in Nissan products at all.

And in my opinion, now is not the best time to be buying a new EV anyway. In another year or two, we'll have a choice of several vehicles with much better range for prices not much higher than we're paying now for 80 mile cars.

Personally, I'm using a Prius to get around when my severely degraded Leaf won't fill the bill. By next winter, the Leaf will be parked or gone. If I don't qualify for a new battery in the remaining three weeks of warranty, I don't want to look at the car any more. $25K for five years of commuting was too much.

-Karl

 

[TomT]

I assume that is for the base model? That is a pretty good deal and I might consider going that route...

Decided to lease a 2016 Volt for $205/15k miles/39 months and turn in my month to month 2013 Leaf.

 

[bradbissell]

Yes, the $205 per month is for a Volt Base LT with comfort package. The Premiere didn't really add anything I felt I needed. Also, I don't like the idea of paying for options for the next owner. I did have Supplier pricing, a private offer via the chevy website and the MA $2500 rebate I used for a downpayment. The difference between 10k and 15k miles per year was $45/month.

 

[cwerdna]

Same here, Tom. It is beginning to appear that Nissan still doesn't have a handle on battery degradation issues. When I look at lack of support for early adopters combined with the probability that new batteries will degrade nearly as fast as the old ones did, I can't generate any interest in Nissan products at all.

FWIW, there are some folks (like at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/1090722420959194/?comment_id=1090731467624956&reply_comment_id=1090973704267399&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D) asserting that the '13+ non-lizard batteries seem to be holding up better than the '11 and '12 batteries. From http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss, if you toss out 2013 Leafs w/build date of 03/2013 earlier and a single fluke from TX (hhgblueleaf), it does seem like the '13s are holding up better.

Now I'm seeing speculation that perhaps there was some battery change/switchover sometime in spring of 2013.

To quote from the poster there
"There are actually some 2014 LEAFs that have the lizard battery. It depends on the manufacturing date. I think after July 2014 they are lizard batteries.

There is SUBSTANTIAL evidence that 2013 and 2014s don't lose capacity as fast as 2011-12s. Whether that's due to a chemistry change or other factors, it's definitely happening. There's no way a 2011-12 could go 75,000 miles without losing a bar, but I know of several 2013s that have."

Personally, I'm using a Prius to get around when my severely degraded Leaf won't fill the bill.

My almost 10 year old Prius is my range extender.

By next winter, the Leaf will be parked or gone. If I don't qualify for a new battery in the remaining three weeks of warranty, I don't want to look at the car any more. $25K for five years of commuting was too much.

Hope you qualify. It is too bad that that Leaf resale value is so poor.

 

[TomT]

I also qualify for supplier pricing... Though I prefer a better equipped vehicle (I'd get the Premier), I'll have to check in to it! We have an all-day test drive of the Volt coming up this Saturday so I'll know better after that if we like it enough to seriously consider it...

Yes, the $205 per month is for a Volt Base LT with comfort package. The Premiere didn't really add anything I felt I needed. Also, I don't like the idea of paying for options for the next owner. I did have Supplier pricing, a private offer via the chevy website and the MA $2500 rebate I used for a downpayment. The difference between 10k and 15k miles per year was $45/month.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Well I am farther out (lease end Dec 2016) and would extend up to 6 months if there was something on the horizon but my choice will simply be the farthest range (with fast charging) I can buy for under $35,000. Now I am a Nissan fan but fandom does not supercede my budget and a $3,000 hit for sales tax is simply something I am unable to do.

After EVing it several years, I have determined 40 kwh is the bare minimum for purchase so I maybe leasing again for the 3rd time knowing that 2019, there is likely to be no EV incentives left.

 

[kubel]

Decided to lease a 2016 Volt for $205/15k miles/39 months.

How much down?

 

[pkulak]

I've got an order in for an A3 E Tron. I'll let you guys know how I like it. I really wanted the new Volt, but my wife wouldn't have it, haha. Oh well. I've driven the A3 sedan a bunch and been throughly impressed; I don't foresee much hardship.

 

[TomT]

I drove it and like it but found it's electric range just too limited for my taste...

I've got an order in for an A3 E Tron. I'll let you guys know how I like it. I really wanted the new Volt, but my wife wouldn't have it, haha. Oh well. I've driven the A3 sedan a bunch and been throughly impressed; I don't foresee much hardship.

 

[GerryAZ]

You folks in California and the other CARB states have a lot more choices for BEVs and PHEVs than the rest of us. I wish some of the other manufacturers would get serious about nationwide availability.

Gerry

 

[pkulak]

I drove it and like it but found it's electric range just too limited for my taste...

Yeah, that's the real downside. But, I just don't think there are enough options out there for me to make EV range a deal breaker. I mean, if I need road trip range and 30+ miles of EV, I get to choose between the Volt and the Tesla? I'm just going to burn a bit more (premium!) gas and not worry about it as much.

After the Model 3 has been out for a year or two and I can buy a normal version without a wait, I'll consider my options again. Maybe see how those super chargers are holding up to demand. That's not going to be any time soon, however. And there's no way I'm driving a Leaf as my only car until then!

Also, the electric range is a bit less of an issue for my family. I commute by bike, so our car is mostly used for local errands, which are usually under 20 miles round trip.

 

[redLEAF]

I drove it and like it but found it's electric range just too limited for my taste...

Yeah, that's the real downside. But, I just don't think there are enough options out there for me to make EV range a deal breaker. I mean, if I need road trip range and 30+ miles of EV, I get to choose between the Volt and the Tesla? I'm just going to burn a bit more (premium!) gas and not worry about it as much.

After the Model 3 has been out for a year or two and I can buy a normal version without a wait, I'll consider my options again. Maybe see how those super chargers are holding up to demand. That's not going to be any time soon, however. And there's no way I'm driving a Leaf as my only car until then!

Also, the electric range is a bit less of an issue for my family. I commute by bike, so our car is mostly used for local errands, which are usually under 20 miles round trip.

I was also considering the A3 e-tron as a possible 'combo' car (EV + ICE for long trips) but its also too small to serve the utility aspect of the ICE it would replace; your 20 mile R/T or less may indeed be doable with the e-tron but the Audi reps I spoke with at an event a few months back thought 15 to 18 miles was about it in full electric mode; but as always YMMV. You're correct about current lack of choices in the rest of the US but this Audi should slowly show up nationwide; VW/Audi/Porsche has a few other PHEV and full EV models in the wings but this one is the first.