Nissan Addresses Slow LEAF Launch

[EVDRIVER]

Was anyone ever given a delivery date or timeframe from Nissan that has not been kept? I don't think so but correct me if I am wrong.

Everyone who was told that their car would be delivered 3-4 months after their order and then had it changed to 4-7 months was subject to a "timeframe" slippage. That's a lot of folks.

TT

The time frame change Nissan said "did not change". Classic.

 

[LEAFer]

Was anyone ever given a delivery date or timeframe from Nissan that has not been kept? I don't think so but correct me if I am wrong.

Dashboard delivery estimates: originally Dec2010. Then Jan2011. Then various weeks in Jan2011.
But ... then an official email (the first about delivery), and I quote:

... the excitement of driving a part of automotive history is almost here! Your Nissan LEAF™ is scheduled to arrive at your local dealer within the next 7 days. Once you take delivery of the vehicle, your initial $99 reservation fee will be refunded. If you have any further questions about the delivery process, just contact your Nissan Dealer.

That email was received 1/10/2011 07:19. That "7 days" promise (schedule?) has now been broken (my dealer has not called me ... nor has anyone else from Nissan).

Time will "tell" ... :|

( An internal unofficial follow-up (in response to my request for investigation) received 1/13 mentioned "... scheduled to be handed to the trucking company on 1/19.". This would imply a delivery maybe this coming weekend )

 

[Stoaty]

Unfortunately, whether Nissan admits a problem or not, there obviously is a problem. After all of the delays and misfires, I am no longer confident they can mass produce the Leaf in a timely fashion. I am going to delay ordering until several thousand Leafs have been delivered to the U.S. Of course, since my order month is January, which will probably slip to February or March, Nissan may end up delaying my order for me :lol:

 

[eddiey]

Well, I'm at the point of considering to drop Nissan and go forward with the Volt. A lot of things they've done are upsetting me bit by bit....

[begin rant]
1) Delivery dates not clear and keep pushing out further
2) SL vs SV and quick charge port. If 85% of the people are ordering SL with Quick charge port, might that's basically saying that the actual price is about 2k more. Of course, it's a marketing trick.... But in some ways I feel cheated. QC port should have been included.
3) Aerovironment EVSE installation upcharges. Give me a break! Ya, I can do it from someone else, but why bend me over and annoy the customer? I wasted $100 to have AV come out, and then me not go with them because I found out later I could waive it.
4) Winterized package? Maybe I'm dreaming, but some of the first literature I read said it had heated seats and heated steering wheel.....
5) Test drive? 4 minutes around a few blocks is not a test drive.
[end rant]

Anyways, Nissan, if you're reading this, you may end up losing a customer for life.

 

[walterbays]

The launch is certainly much slower than I expected. When I reserved I was disappointed that I wouldn't get my car within a couple of months. Then I learned here that about half the reservation holders had been waiting since 4/20/2010. Then I realized that many of those 4/20 people had been waiting since 2003 when GM crushed the EV1.

With a small production capacity of only 50,000 per year it has always been clear that Leaf could not come close to meeting demand before the 2013 model year. But GM and Ford plan to sell even fewer Volts and Focuses. It's disappointing that Nissan so far seems unable to produce cars even at that 50k/yr rate. Maybe they won't solve their problems and will never deliver in significant volume. I read that many people have deposits down on Leaf, Volt, Coda, and Aptera, and it's "whichever car hits my driveway first gets the money." In that case Nissan loses.

Or maybe Nissan will solve their problems, and ramp up to 50k/yr just a little later than originally planned, and we'll get cars a couple of months later than planned. That's a lot of months since 2003. But they need the rollout to go without major consumer disaster stories. They need to put thousands of successful drivers on the road in the next couple of years. Then by the time they can produce 250,000 per year or 500,000 per year, and by the time gas is $5-6 per gallon, they'll be able to sell them without government subsidy.

 

[tps]

It's disappointing that Nissan so far seems unable to produce cars even at that 50k/yr rate.

I'd be amazed if they'd ramped Oppama up to it's full rate this soon. Give them a few months... It's strange for me to listen to this angst; if anyone has angst it should be those of us in the "forgotten 36". Nissan is trying to do something that has not been done in the modern age: sell an affordable, mass-produced electric car. I'm willing to let them have their best shot at it, because if they succeed, my turn to buy will come up and I'll be able to OWN one. I'm glad they're taking the careful and deliberate approach of a major car company who might just be in it for the long run... That would be an EV first!

 

[Boomer23]

It's disappointing that Nissan so far seems unable to produce cars even at that 50k/yr rate. Maybe they won't solve their problems and will never deliver in significant volume.

I think that it's way early to jump to these kind of conclusions. It's the middle of January. We know that Nissan has announced a lot of deliveries in March and April and we'll be able to gauge whether they are able to ramp up production or not. By May, I'd be more willing to start forming opinions about whether they can make these cars in volume or not.

I'm in the camp with those who think that getting it right is hugely important. I've done my share of ranting, even blogging about the lack of information Nissan has provided to those of us with reservations. I tend to think that there were a few quality problems with the first few cars produced, but I'm not sure that being open about it would have been the better choice. I can see the headlines: "Nissan cites quality problems, announces delays in first electric car", just as GM is winning awards right and left for the Volt. I don't think that would have been good for the future growth of the EV market nor for the future value of our own LEAFs.

 

[walterbays]

I think that it's way early to jump to these kind of conclusions.

Okay, I wasn't clear. My sentiment is +1 tps and +1 Boomer23. I'll try again.

Hypothetically, it is possible Nissan will never be able to ramp up production. Even in that worst case, everyone who is angry at Nissan may just get to buy a Volt, Coda, or Focus - whatever can be delivered first.

But because Nissan has the most ambitious goals to build plug-in cars, they are the ones most likely to bring them into the mainstream and begin to make major improvements in overall energy use. In achieving those goals what matters is the 2013 model year and beyond, when Nissan will have ample production capacity.

The first couple of years production will mainly just demonstrate to friends and neighbors that an EV can be practical. For that to happen Nissan can't afford a major recall, with critics poised to pounce on the slightest problem. If the rollout goes a little slower than we would all like, and slower than Nissan would like, it matters little to Leaf's long term success.

 

[LakeLeaf]

I think that it's way early to jump to these kind of conclusions. It's the middle of January. We know that Nissan has announced a lot of deliveries in March and April and we'll be able to gauge whether they are able to ramp up production or not.

Not counting some of the lesser known blogs, has Nissan really announced a lot of deliveries in March and April?

I think they have told people who ordered 1 SEP that their Leafs will arrive in February, and those who ordered 2, 3, 4, 5 SEP that their Leafs would arrive in March. That's something like 250 Leafs, as I believe the initial order days were only about 50 cars/day. If if Nissan took 100 orders a day, that's still only something like 500 Leafs. I haven't been following the spreadsheet really closely, but I don't think all of September have delivery dates, nor October, etc.

2) SL vs SV and quick charge port. If 85% of the people are ordering SL with Quick charge port, might that's basically saying that the actual price is about 2k more. Of course, it's a marketing trick.... But in some ways I feel cheated. QC port should have been included.

I think a lot of us who ordered the QC are coming to the conclusion that it will see little use. It looks like there are just going to be very few QC stations installed. Save you money!

 

[planet4ever]

I think they have told people who ordered 1 SEP that their Leafs will arrive in February, and those who ordered 2, 3, 4, 5 SEP that their Leafs would arrive in March. That's something like 250 Leafs, as I believe the initial order days were only about 50 cars/day. If if Nissan took 100 orders a day, that's still only something like 500 Leafs. I haven't been following the spreadsheet really closely, but I don't think all of September have delivery dates, nor October, etc.

Actually, for the orders reported in the spreadsheet, most Sep 1 orders have Jan delivery, and most Sep 2 through Sep 15 orders have Mar delivery, though there is a scattering of Apr and Pending throughout that period. The late Sep through Oct 1 orders are mostly Apr delivery, with the curious exception that nearly all CA orders during that period are still Pending.

The spreadsheet has 144 entries with orders through Sep 15, and I find it hard to believe that any more than 20% of the people who ordered during that period are shown in the table. That gives me a minimum of 750 cars that Nissan expects to deliver by the end of March. My own guess is that they are aiming for 1000.

 

[hill]

Was anyone ever given a delivery date or timeframe from Nissan that has not been kept? I don't think so but correct me if I am wrong.

Dashboard delivery estimates: originally Dec2010. Then Jan2011. Then various weeks in Jan2011.
But ... then an official email (the first about delivery), and I quote:

... the excitement of driving a part of automotive history is almost here! Your Nissan LEAF™ is scheduled to arrive at your local dealer within the next 7 days. Once you take delivery of the vehicle, your initial $99 reservation fee will be refunded. If you have any further questions about the delivery process, just contact your Nissan Dealer.

That email was received 1/10/2011 07:19. That "7 days" promise (schedule?) has now been broken (my dealer has not called me ... nor has anyone else from Nissan).

Time will "tell" ... :|

( An internal unofficial follow-up (in response to my request for investigation) received 1/13 mentioned "... scheduled to be handed to the trucking company on 1/19.". This would imply a delivery maybe this coming weekend )

Heck, if the truck gets it today, and the dealer doesn't have it today ... it must be a mighty long trek from the port, to your area.

After waiting for YEARS (with one of the 1st $500 deposits) for the non-existent Aptera ... all these Leaf set-backs have mearly been bumps in the road . . . much more do-able than that huge disapointment.

 

[walterbays]

I think a lot of us who ordered the QC are coming to the conclusion that it will see little use. It looks like there are just going to be very few QC stations installed. Save you money!

Too soon to tell. The EV Project plan was always for a small number of L3 stations, but they were supposed to be strategically placed to allow road trips on certain corridors. Now I haven't seen word of a single one of them actually installed, but neither have I seen word of a single L2 station yet installed in my area outside a Nissan dealer. And the news said it was L3 stations which Cracker Barrel was installing. I don't know if that's true or if the reporter mixed it up. But it seems possible that in a year's time there will be L3 stations in some convenient locations.

Also I've read discussion on this board about people wanting to build devices to connect AC in through the QC port at 6.6 kW or above to get a faster charge than the 3.3 kW L2 port can provide. I don't expect to use my QC port often but I could be glad to have it in case of need. It's like the spare tire I've always carried and never use. (Or is that a bad example since Leaf doesn't have a spare tire?

 

[WaunaLeaf]

I'm glad to be in one of the last rollout states. I've got my reservation and I get to see how the market and the car progress over the year before I make the final committment. GM and Ford are starting to press Nissan to our advantage.

 

[GeorgeParrott]

Somewhere, in the early days of final orders opening, I thought I read/heard that Nissan took around 200 orders on "Day 1/Aug. 31." Only about 36 cars are reported delivered today on the spreadsheet and 6 of those were confirmed orders on SEPT. 1. There are still quite a number of 31 August confirmed orders that are not delivered and several of those have delivery dates NOW posted as "February 2011."

I am a 31 August finalized order, and my delivery date moved from "December 2010" to now February 2011, and I still don't even have a VIN or a specific target date NOW. Worse, I see on the spreadsheet that another customer at the SAME DEALER with the identical configuration to my order and who ordered on 1 Sept. has his car.

The LEAF LAUNCH is not only slow, but it is sequenced on some parameter not obvious or open.

Further I have, for some time, come to TOTALLY DOUBT the veracity of anything coming from the mouths or text of Nissan USA Corporate relative to the "slow launch." I am still optimistic and eager for my LEAF, but I am so glad that my Chevy Volt sits in my garage, as the first of our family two-car migration to this new generation of vehicle engineering.

 

[evnow]

Acknowledging customer frustrations, Carolin said that he's at fault for setting delivery expectations too high

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2011/01/slow-delivery-irking-some-leaf-buyers-exec-says-he-overpromised.html#more

 

[Jay]

Not to intrude to the discussion, but the mechanics behind the current/future delays as I understand it, is that, while the first month or so of production was maybe not as fast as anticipated, the Japanese ¥770,000 rebate that was enacted in May of 2009, and back-dated for April of 09 was not (or at least has not yet) renewed as was expected.

This means that (based on the current situation) in about 10 weeks, or March 31st, that ¥770,000 goes poof. That puts Nissan's 2,200 Japanese corporate sales in jeopardy instantly, and probably a good bulk of the consumer's as well (lets say 2,000ish of them (out of 4K) will commit with the rebate still on the table)...if they don't deliver/get the government commitment approved by the deadline.

It is basically a Nissan corporate decision, based on the lesser of two evils; A)tick off the US customers by making them wait a little longer and breaking some promises, or B) deliver on time in the US, and cross their fingers and hope that their Japanese hand raisers are ok with spending another $9,200ish (USD)

I'd say they are looking at it reasonably and have come to the conclusion more sales would be lost if they go with option B.

I believe what has happened is Nissan has just been sitting back waiting on the Diet of Japan (legislature) to re-up the plan or extend it...and because it hasn't happened they have been forced to adjust allocation.

EDIT: I'm not a strong speller

 

[stanley]

Statik Do you have any idea how many Leafs Nissan is now producing each week and haw the ramp up is going? Welcome back!!!! Your information is greatly appreciated

 

[Stoaty]

It is basically a Nissan corporate decision, based on the lesser of two evils; A)tick off the US customers by making them wait a little longer and breaking some promises, or B) deliver on time in the US, and cross their fingers and hope that their Japanese hand raisers are ok with spending another $9,200ish (USD)

I'd say they are looking at it reasonably and have come to the conclusion more sales would be lost if they go with option B.

I believe what has happened is Nissan has just been sitting back waiting on the Diet of Japan (legislature) to re-up the plan or extend it...and because it hasn't happened they have been forced to adjust allocation.

If this is true, it is a reasonable decision on their part... if they just told us that's what is happening I would be very much reassured. I am not so much concerned about the delay as I am about the reason for the delay (like whether they are having production problems, discovered a design problem, etc.).

 

[palmermd]

I'd say they are looking at it reasonably and have come to the conclusion more sales would be lost if they go with option B.

This is a rumor that I believe. Some of the others were just too far fetched. Thanks for the update, good to have you back in the loop here. I've removed your old site from my bookmarks. Nothing informative over there, and the 4 readers just bicker in the comment section.

 

[evnow]

I think this is highly plausible.

As we all know the tax credits/rebates in various countries play a big part.

But I'd be very surprised if the rebates in Japan are not renewed - unless toyota/honda have more influence.