Nissan get your head out of your bottom

[Packet]

It's clear the process is messed up. I don't think anyone's trying to justify it, even if they can see why it happened. To my mind, Nissan made the same mistake Google did, which was trying to move from a position of dealing with customers one step removed to dealing with them directly. It didn't work any better for Google with the Nexus One than the LEAF is for Nissan; in Google's case, the sudden change to dealing with /paid/ users swamped their inadequate customer support system, and in Nissan's case, they're discovering that dealing with customers directly is a lot different than doing business just with dealers.

That doesn't excuse it, nor change the fact that the situation sucks.

There are some who have been waiting an immense amount of time for their car, and there are some who have ordered much more recently and have apparently line-jumped (me among them, I admit, though not by any choice or intention of my own). And unfortunately, right now, most of the other practical EVs don't seem much better off in terms of ability to order and know what's going on. None of this is too unfamiliar to people who have been early adopters with other technology (sort of like the old days of "don't buy revision A hardware" with Apple, though they're much better about that now), but most people don't expect to apply early adopter mindset to automobile purchasing.

Yes, Nissan has screwed up. Whether you feel it was an understandable screw-up or not, we can't deny that the ordering process has been at best a comedy of miscommunication and strange decisions, and at worst downright misleading (intentionally or otherwise).

However, we're all here because of a shared interest in EVs. As sucktastic as the situation is and as frustrated as many people are, we probably don't need to yell at each other, do we?

 

[ggodman]

Sorry fairness was never guaranteed welcome to the real world, as a consumer you have all the power in the equation, if the minuses for you out weigh the positives don't buy it, period f***ing dot. The dealer you ordered from will be happy to have an orphan and sell it to someone who wants it, or as you indicated try to profit yourself for your perceived trouble (LOL), I'm sorry the forum complainers feel like the entitlement brigade.

 

[LALeaf]

Its very interesting how the responses critical of the original poster and healy100 are playing out:

avanti5010, Leaf delivered: 4/23/11
AmarilloLeaf, Leaf delivered: 3/31/11
Stoaty, Lucky Duck, ordered 1/26/11, estimated delivery 5/23/11 (4 months order to delivery)
SteveInSeattle, Leaf delivered: 5/3/11
DaveinOlyWA, Leaf Delivered: 1/18/11
evnow, Leaf delivered: 2/25/11
bdgotoh, Leaf delivered: 4/11/11
thankyouOB, Lucky Duck, ordered Feb 2011, Leaf delivered April (2 months order to delivery)

It seems that compassion and empathy don't extend pass the delivery of your Leaf. Nice.

 

[BlueSL]

LALeaf, this one is my favorite.

I went from "Pending" to "month of June" today.
So, that makes it: March to April to May to Pending to June.
What a fiasco!
Nissan sure has botched this process.
I ordered October 30, 2010.

 

[nissanvirgin]

Thanks packet and LALeaf. I think all the replies are civil enough with the exception of perhaps bdgotoh and ggodman (do I detect a smidge of arrogance in that username and in the post?). ThankyouOB in particular you have my agreement. Of course this is no big deal in the grand scheme of things and in no way rises to the level of a political issue, like healthcare.

But then I never said Nissan's mistakes were a huge crime or an affront to my sense of justice. I just said this is truly horrendous customer service, and Nissan can do something to make things better but chooses not to. Those like bdgotoh who would rather blame the victims, or ggodman who would rather insult them, and create conflict among the posters where none existed before seem not to be understanding that the nature of the complaint is about customer service, not political or social or financial rights. Yet while not rising to the level of societal ill, the problems Nissan has created are not trivial in the context of car selling (this is Nissan's supposed expertise no?), and the handling of the problem by Nissan is really lousy beyond anybody's lowest expectations. As said previously, there are many things Nissan can do, and in trying to be constructive rather than just complaining, I suggested some of them. For sure the first thing -- an apology and an honest explanation -- any company that cared about loyalty and reputation would have done, and it would cost nothing, but Nissan can't get themselves to even do that. This makes customers more upset than they needed to be, and makes the company look worse than they had to, so it's clearly a stupid thing all around.

Attempts like bdgotoh's to minimize the problem or blame the victim I think can be fairly characterized as being apologist in nature. We all know not to "count ones chickens before they hatch" bdgotoh, but such platitudes lack actionable specificity. In this case it was reasonable to expect that EITHER that Nissan's delivery dates would not be 4 months off OR that Nissan would do something if they were. It was reasonable to make plans based on Nissan's predictions, since it was reasonable to assume Nissan, as a consumer goods manufacturing company, could predict its own ability to manufacture such goods, especially since it knew how many reservations it had before opening up ordering. Indeed Nissan wanted us to believe in the expectation they created, or they wouldn't have created it, no? I do have another car, and I didn't actually pay $2000 for $200 worth of electrical work, so bdgotoh your lectures are really misplaced. However if I did not have another car, or if I did spend $2000 on a L2 charger, it would still not be my fault. Nissan failed to meet the expectation that they so eagerly created with emails and expensive TV commercials and appearances at auto shows, and that is Nissan's fault, not the buyer's. And now by not admitting to it and trying to do something right for their aspiring customers, Nissan is making a bad situation much worse for everybody involved.

 

[sdbmania]

I think the frustration is understandable. Early on not long after I had reserved I was told that this process would likely not go smoothly. I think that prediction was accurate. I do wish the process had been better for everyone involved.

It's important to remember that we are all human and we make mistakes. Nissan isn't perfect, but this is the first time they have created a product like this and the system they developed for the process is new. Ironically, their system has so many moving parts that something can go wrong, unlike the LEAF which has fewer moving parts than a ICE car. Right now this whole situation is going to be rough on some until more cars can be built at a time. Eventually, this will get better. None of this is going to help people who are frustrated with Nissan feel much better. But, I do hope those people do something to relieve their stress.

Writing is a useful way to vent, so if that helps some people get out that frustration then I am all for it.

 

[nissanvirgin]

I think the frustration is understandable. Early on not long after I had reserved I was told that this process would likely not go smoothly. I think that prediction was accurate.

Ironically, it appeared to go amazingly smoothly for you.

Nissan isn't perfect, but this is the first time they have created a product like this and the system they developed for the process is new.

New systems don't have to suck, and when they do suck, the response doesn't have to be denial and silence. Funny I don't recall any of the three Prius rollouts meeting with any difficulty.

Eventually, this will get better.

Things will get worse before they get better, hence the frustration. Getting delivery of a 2011 car in August is worse than getting it in April. Delivery dates getting further away as time passes is evidence that things are getting worse. When delivery dates actually meet calendar dates, it will be because time without a car increases, not because delivery dates become closer. If things get better, it is in the sense that production will ramp up eventually, which will benefit those who have ordered and those who have not yet ordered at almost the same time, making the car available to all enthusiasts and some non-enthusiasts and denying any advantage of time to the early risk-takers. I get the sense you do want us stranded customers to feel better, but predictions that do not apply to us and creating excuses for continual bad behavior by Nissan are not too soothing.

 

[Amary]

Thanks nissanvirgin. You pretty much sum up my feelings and experiences with Nissan, too. This will be my first Nissan (assuming I still go through with it). I'm very brand loyal, and they had an opportunity to win a life-long convert (from Honda/Acura). As things stand, I very much doubt I will ever purchase from them again. (There should be plenty of EV alternatives next time around.)

I really was willing to go out on a limb to be an EARLY adopter, and got in line at the same time as all the people who received cars in December-April, but due to a series of screw-ups (all on the part of Nissan and its incompetent contractors), I am now also told I won't get a car till July. Meanwhile, people who ordered months after me already have their cars, and people who reserved a full year after me are being quoted August deliveries. I know many others are in the same situation. It seems that we are still being asked to pay the price of, and to take all the risks of, being an early adopter, without the benefits of actually being EARLY. (I guess early is a relative term here, but I very much wanted participate in the initial excitement of the discovery process. Much of that has already run its course now, and I'll have much less opportunity to be part of it.)

The utter failure of LEAF CS, as well as Nissan Corporate Consumer Affairs to provide any meaningful answers (or to even return calls or emails) is beyond maddening. I understand that demand is higher than supply, and that some people will have to wait longer than others. And I understand the earthquake has caused tremendous disruptions to the people and products of Japan. But the way Nissan totally botched the ordering and assignment process, and then failed to communicate anything meaningful, or even take any responsibility for their numerous (and apparently ongoing) screw-ups, is inexcusable.

I fully understand your situation about the model year as well. I really hate to be paying full MSRP for a car in perhaps the last month or two of its model year. I actually asked Nissan about canceling my MY2011 order and getting in line for a MY2012 instead. But, of course, I got zero response.

 

[planet4ever]

1. Not getting an item on time is not a no-cost matter to the customer. The customer has put off alternative purchases, maybe even sold an earlier car. In my case, I gave a car to relatives in March, and was counting on getting the Leaf in April, using Zipcar for the occasional need. I was okay with this for 1-2 months, but delivery date for my red Leaf is now July, so let's just be realistic and call it August, so I will have to manage car-less for 4 more months than intended. This is something the apologists choose to ignore.

Am I ever with you on that one. My calendar dates were earlier than yours, but your pain brings back the bad memories. I gave my car to my granddaughter in November, because my dealer assured me I would have the car in December. Then I waited nearly six months, finally getting my car three weeks ago.

3. Time is even more money in this case because of the $5000 CA tax credit expiring.

Again, my sympathies, but I have to point out that you have overstated your case. The rebate (not really a tax credit) doesn't expire, but if you don't get your car before July it will almost certainly be cut in half. Not that you should be happy to lose $2,500 ...

4. Some of us are locked in to the Leaf. Some of us have paid thousands to install chargers which may not work with other EVs, so the advice of apologists to just go elsewhere is not useful advice.

Most of your points are valid, but I don't think this one is. You are presumably talking about AeroVironment charging docks. I am quite confident those docks will work with any new freeway-capable EV produced in the next five years, probably the next ten years. It's not like they are some proprietary Nissan gadget. They are basically just a big switch with the one and only SAE standard EV connector on the business end. Shucks, if Ford is to be believed, that dock will charge a Focus EV twice as fast as it charges a LEAF.

Ray

 

[Packet]

Funny I don't recall any of the three Prius rollouts meeting with any difficulty.

Not that I disagree with the general gist of the post, but I had to address this one. I looked at a Prius (at launch) as my previous car purchase. The attempts to order one became so frustrating that I finally gave up and bought a VW Beetle instead. So while I may have been an outlier there, I sure felt like an early adopter getting burned! :|

 

[thankyouOB]

Its very interesting how the responses critical of the original poster and healy100 are playing out:

avanti5010, Leaf delivered: 4/23/11
AmarilloLeaf, Leaf delivered: 3/31/11
Stoaty, Lucky Duck, ordered 1/26/11, estimated delivery 5/23/11 (4 months order to delivery)
SteveInSeattle, Leaf delivered: 5/3/11
DaveinOlyWA, Leaf Delivered: 1/18/11
evnow, Leaf delivered: 2/25/11
bdgotoh, Leaf delivered: 4/11/11
thankyouOB, Lucky Duck, ordered Feb 2011, Leaf delivered April (2 months order to delivery)

It seems that compassion and empathy don't extend pass the delivery of your Leaf. Nice.

the real quotient should be reservation to delivery, not order to delivery.
order is just a secondary function.

as to this:
There are some who have been waiting an immense amount of time for their car, and there are some who have ordered much more recently and have apparently line-jumped (me among the
It really should read: ... and have apparently gotten luck...
there really are NO line jumpers.

and MY RAQ was in January, actually, at the end. I got the car april 30, also the end; so you should redo your math, LALeaf.
but really, just about a year from reserve date, which was in mid-may, 2010.

and FULLY AGREE that buying at MSRP or close or close to end of year is a big rip. there should be adjustments.

 

[GeorgeParrott]

Its very interesting how the responses critical of the original poster and healy100 are playing out:

avanti5010, Leaf delivered: 4/23/11
AmarilloLeaf, Leaf delivered: 3/31/11
Stoaty, Lucky Duck, ordered 1/26/11, estimated delivery 5/23/11 (4 months order to delivery)
SteveInSeattle, Leaf delivered: 5/3/11
DaveinOlyWA, Leaf Delivered: 1/18/11
evnow, Leaf delivered: 2/25/11
bdgotoh, Leaf delivered: 4/11/11
thankyouOB, Lucky Duck, ordered Feb 2011, Leaf delivered April (2 months order to delivery)

It seems that compassion and empathy don't extend pass the delivery of your Leaf. Nice.

Not fair....I took delivery on my Leaf on 2/17/2011, and I totally agree with the disgust that started this thread.

8 -))

VIN #320, Glacier Pearl SL with QC and floor mats...

George in W. Sacramento

 

[LALeaf]

the real quotient should be reservation to delivery, not order to delivery.
order is just a secondary function.

I totally agree, which makes my situation and that of others who reserved on 4/20, but who still don't have a car (or even a VIN!!), even worse. It was Nissan that decided to pick the order date as the controlling date (well sort of controlling).

as to this:
There are some who have been waiting an immense amount of time for their car, and there are some who have ordered much more recently and have apparently line-jumped (me among the
It really should read: ... and have apparently gotten luck...
there really are NO line jumpers.

Never called you a line-jumper, just lucky.

and MY RAQ was in January, actually, at the end.

Sorry, my mistake. In fact on reread, you really weren't really critical anyway, so should have left you off the list. But to set the record straight:

thankyouOB, Lucky Duck, ordered Jan 2011, Leaf delivered April (3 months order to delivery)

 

[LALeaf]

Not fair....I took delivery on my Leaf on 2/17/2011, and I totally agree with the disgust that started this thread.

8 -))

Yes, thank you, you weren't on the list. You, sdbmania and planet4ever all have cars and all have kept your compassion and empathy for us unlucky ones well past your delivery, thank you.

 

[downeykp]

Its very interesting how the responses critical of the original poster and healy100 are playing out:

avanti5010, Leaf delivered: 4/23/11
AmarilloLeaf, Leaf delivered: 3/31/11
Stoaty, Lucky Duck, ordered 1/26/11, estimated delivery 5/23/11 (4 months order to delivery)
SteveInSeattle, Leaf delivered: 5/3/11
DaveinOlyWA, Leaf Delivered: 1/18/11
evnow, Leaf delivered: 2/25/11
bdgotoh, Leaf delivered: 4/11/11
thankyouOB, Lucky Duck, ordered Feb 2011, Leaf delivered April (2 months order to delivery)

It seems that compassion and empathy don't extend pass the delivery of your Leaf. Nice.

I do not have mine yet. Big whoop. I will get it when it gets here, today tomorrow or next year, be patient. No one is entitled to anything. If you do not like how this really lousy system works, cancel your order and wait for whatever comes next.

 

[tps]

And then there are those of us who a "geographically disadvantantaged". This constant complaining about delivery time might be amusing were it not for how Nissan is being dragged though the mud. I think they need to be given credit for doing what no one else has done to date. That is bring a mass produced EV to market and gear up for mass production. They're not anywhere near "normal production" yet. Until they get there, the delays such as we've seen are inevitable. BTW -- As one from the "forgotten 36", I would gladly trade places with any on you Tier 1 people who have had enough of the issues that come with bringing a new technology to market.

 

[thankyouOB]

LALeaf

and MY RAQ was in January, actually, at the end.

Sorry, my mistake. In fact on reread, you really weren't really critical anyway, so should have left you off the list. But to set the record straight:

thankyouOB, Lucky Duck, ordered Jan 2011, Leaf delivered April (3 months order to delivery)[/quote]


it is appreciated.

 

[LALeaf]

I do not have mine yet. Big whoop. I will get it when it gets here, today tomorrow or next year, be patient. No one is entitled to anything. If you do not like how this really lousy system works, cancel your order and wait for whatever comes next.

Agreed, the delay is not really that much of an issue. I, like most other 2010 orders, have waited over a year from reservation anyway. Personally, while I would like it sooner, I could wait another six months without a huge deal (I still have to pay for the car). However, when Nissan's screw up potentially costs me thousands of dollars in a lost rebate from California (my tax money), then it is a big deal for me. For you, being in Washington state without a state rebate, I can totally see how the delay for you doesn't really matter.

One last note, since you are a Jan 2011 order, your wait (from ordering at least) isn't quite as long as others. Also, if Nissan hadn't messed up the ordering to delivery sequence, the delivery 2010 orders would mostly just being finished now or in June and the 2011 orders would have most likely had their deliveries started in July or August. So your wait kinda is no big whoop.

 

[LALeaf]

And then there are those of us who a "geographically disadvantantaged". This constant complaining about delivery time might be amusing were it not for how Nissan is being dragged though the mud. I think they need to be given credit for doing what no one else has done to date. That is bring a mass produced EV to market and gear up for mass production. They're not anywhere near "normal production" yet. Until they get there, the delays such as we've seen are inevitable. BTW -- As one from the "forgotten 36", I would gladly trade places with any on you Tier 1 people who have had enough of the issues that come with bringing a new technology to market.

Just curious, but why can't you just order through a CA dealer and have the car shipped home? Is it a state law restriction on buying out of state cars (CA has such a restriction, but that is for smog issues)? Is it a cost issue in shipping the car (which I think you would pay through your dealer anyway)? Again, just curious.

 

[davewill]

Just curious, but why can't you just order through a CA dealer and have the car shipped home? Is it a state law restriction on buying out of state cars (CA has such a restriction, but that is for smog issues)? Is it a cost issue in shipping the car (which I think you would pay through your dealer anyway)? Again, just curious.

I think you could do this with an orphan, but Nissan won't take orders from people outside the rollout areas. Service could be problematic, however...