Nissan (PHEV) Plug-in Hybrid Elect Veh 2015? 2016?

[scottf200]

In another thread I mentioned that I think Nissan will be coming out with a PHEV to help leverage their bets and to help the dual (BEV/PHEV) car owners have two Nissans. I think a lot of people would think this move is POSITIVE thing by Nissan and not negative.

It has taking other companies 3 years to developer *EV*w/ICEs at a rapid pace. Nissan will have this type (PHEV,EREV,EVER) of car by 2015 or 2016 at least so they can compete with Ford C MAX Energi, Toyota Prius, and Chevrolet Volt. I sure hope it works more like the Volt in that the electric battery always until it runs out and is used regardless of the load (heavy foot=ICE) and the MPH (62 MPH in the PIP for example turns on the ICE). That'd be great.

[UPDATE]
The Nissan/Infinity "official U.S. media outlet with today (17Nov2011) announced range-extending electric car; a.k.aPHEV/EREV
http://www.nissannews.com/newsrelease.do?&id=3057&allImage=1&teaser=infiniti-getting-charged-up-over-new-sports-car&mid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[/UPDATE]

Aside -- some may question if the C Max Engeri comes on under load or at a MPH. Articles with that and the first with a nod to EVNow.
How much EV range will Energi have ? Ford gives us a clue ...
http://www.c-maxenergi.com/2011/07/how-much-ev-range-will-energi-have-ford.html#more" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is another thing to remember. Unlike Volt, Energi will use gas engine when driven hard or at high speeds - just like the upcoming Plug-In Prius.

Ford C Max Energi - ICE under load or at MPH:
http://blogs.motortrend.com/ford-max-energi-plug-ins-volt-15941.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You see, if I fully recharge a Volt, back out of the driveway onto my deserted country road and stand on the go-pedal, my plug-in Chevy will whisk me silently up to 102 mph. Try the same exact exercise in your C-Max Energi and the engine will fire as soon as the carpet-nap compresses. Even if you egg-shell the pedal up to Detroit’s 70-mph inner-city freeway limit with a fresh charge, the engine is going to fire at some point (the EV-mode’s top speed has also yet to be divulged, but engineering director Sherif Marakby admitted it has been raised from the Fusion Hybrid’s 47 mph to something “above 50”).

Aside: Regular haters -- FYI, I won't see/read your post if you respond since they are suppressed: ie. This post was made by <user> who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post. --- Please remember to respond in kind and add me to your ignore/foe list. Thank you in advance. Life is to short for this bullying nonsense.

 

[TomT]

Geez, get a life!

You see, if I fully recharge a Volt, back out of the driveway onto my deserted country road and stand on the go-pedal, my plug-in Chevy will whisk me silently up to 102 mph. Try the same exact exercise in your C-Max Energi and the engine will fire as soon as the carpet-nap compresses. Even if you egg-shell the pedal up to Detroit’s 70-mph inner-city freeway limit with a fresh charge, the engine is going to fire at some point (the EV-mode’s top speed has also yet to be divulged, but engineering director Sherif Marakby admitted it has been raised from the Fusion Hybrid’s 47 mph to something “above 50”).

 

[Herm]

I would prefer that Nissan used those 400lbs for extra battery capacity.. we have enough hybrids right now.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Hey Scott, just curious if you can read Tom's quote below, or if it's been blanked out, also?

Tony (not on your ban list yet)

Geez, get a life!

You see, if I fully recharge a Volt, back out of the driveway onto my deserted country road and stand on the go-pedal, my plug-in Chevy will whisk me silently up to 102 mph. Try the same exact exercise in your C-Max Energi and the engine will fire as soon as the carpet-nap compresses. Even if you egg-shell the pedal up to Detroit’s 70-mph inner-city freeway limit with a fresh charge, the engine is going to fire at some point (the EV-mode’s top speed has also yet to be divulged, but engineering director Sherif Marakby admitted it has been raised from the Fusion Hybrid’s 47 mph to something “above 50”).

 

[TomT]

You need to try harder, Tony! :lol:

Hey Scott, just curious if you can read Tom's quote below, or if it's been blanked out, also?

Tony (not on your ban list yet)

 

[scottf200]

I would prefer that Nissan used those 400lbs for extra battery capacity.. we have enough hybrids right now.

But I was talking about PHEV not just a regular hybrids. That gives more electrical drive miles. In the future, many predict to meet the future MPG stands many/most cars will have electric motor "assist" (ie. regular hybrid not PHEV type drivetrain).

To be serious and honest, it would seem to be a good move by Nissan because it is fairly common to have brand loyalty. That is to say a Nissan LEAF owner who also needs a ICE vehicle already today may choose to get a Nissan PHEV. That gives them additional electric miles when they drive the Nissan PHEV and less gas miles than by an alternative ICE based vehicle they would have bought/needed anyway. Add this point to my OP in bold.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Tony (not on your ban list yet)

Looks like you may have been added to the list and edited into the original post after his most recent post.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Scott; interesting summation.

let me tell you mine. i think Nissan will announce 2 additional EVs along with a extended range hybrid. all of which to be introduced in the 2013 or 2014 model year.

the TN plant is set to build 120-150,000 Leafs and 200,000+ battery packs. i think the additional battery packs will be divided up between a;

high end EV in the $50,000 range.

a low end EV in the $25,000 range.

extended range hybrid in the low 30's

 

[BlueSL]

Aside: Regular haters -- FYI, I won't see/read your post if you respond since they are suppressed: ie. This post was made by <user> who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post. --- Please remember to respond in kind and add me to your ignore/foe list. Thank you in advance. Life is to short for this bullying nonsense.

Good for you, Scott. The fanboy air can get a little thick around here. Interesting post. Thanks.

 

[LKK]

There is a market for the pure EV and a market for the extended range EV. Nissan has one covered, why shouldn't it compete in the other?

 

[TomT]

I suspect that we will eventually see them compete in all three markets (BEV, HEV, PHEV)... Until that dropped the Altima hybrid this year (which will likely be back in some improved form later), they were already in two of the three...

There is a market for the pure EV and a market for the extended range EV. Nissan has one covered, why shouldn't it compete in the other?

 

[SanDust]

the TN plant is set to build 120-150,000 Leafs and 200,000+ battery packs. i think the additional battery packs will be divided up between a;

high end EV in the $50,000 range.

a low end EV in the $25,000 range.

extended range hybrid in the low 30's

I don't see Nissan producing anywhere near this number of Leafs or battery packs for the first several years. Hopefully eventually but not possible out of the gate.

As for what they'll produce, looking at Renault may give some clues. From your list it looks as if the high end EV will be an EREV. I'd agree that we'll see a low end EV like the Spark/Fit. Not sure about anything else but an EREV sedan or CUV could be in the mix assuming Nissan can get the technology sorted.

 

[SanDust]

There is a market for the pure EV and a market for the extended range EV. Nissan has one covered, why shouldn't it compete in the other?

No reason and no doubt they want to. It's just a question of resources. Nissan had real trouble with the parallel hybrid technology and ended up licensing it from Toyota. EREV technology is harder still, so Nissan engineering has their work cut out for them. They're apparently going to announce the ESFLOW as an EREV so maybe they have a good handle on it.

 

[scottf200]

The Nissan/Infinity "official U.S. media outlet with today (17Nov2011) announcement.

http://www.nissannews.com/pressrelease/3057/1/infiniti-getting-charged-up-over-new-sports-car" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11.17.2011 , LOS ANGELES
INFINITI GETTING CHARGED UP OVER NEW SPORTS CAR CONCEPT

– Low Emission and High Performance; Geneva Motor Show Reveal –

A highly advanced, range-extending electric sports car [REEV] concept is under development at Infiniti. Set to emerge at the Geneva Motor Show in March 2012, this vehicle is being created to extend the potential for high performance, low emission electric cars.<snip>

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the TN plant is set to build 120-150,000 Leafs and 200,000+ battery packs. i think the additional battery packs will be divided up between a;

high end EV in the $50,000 range.

a low end EV in the $25,000 range.

extended range hybrid in the low 30's

I don't see Nissan producing anywhere near this number of Leafs or battery packs for the first several years. Hopefully eventually but not possible out of the gate.

As for what they'll produce, looking at Renault may give some clues. From your list it looks as if the high end EV will be an EREV. I'd agree that we'll see a low end EV like the Spark/Fit. Not sure about anything else but an EREV sedan or CUV could be in the mix assuming Nissan can get the technology sorted.

its all speculation but i find it curious that the Altima Hybrid was pulled. i predict its return in a very similar "Volt" like config along with a 100% EV in a 150 mile real world range mode. naturally an extended range in the Altima trim will be $40+

 

[evnow]

its all speculation but i find it curious that the Altima Hybrid was pulled.

Since they are fulfilling all their CARB commitment with Leaf, no need for Altima Hybrid.

 

[evnow]

It has taking other companies 3 years to developer *EV*w/ICEs at a rapid pace. Nissan will have this type (PHEV,EREV,EVER) of car by 2015 or 2016 at least so they can compete with Ford C MAX Energi, Toyota Prius, and Chevrolet Volt. I sure hope it works more like the Volt in that the electric battery always until it runs out and is used regardless of the load (heavy foot=ICE) and the MPH (62 MPH in the PIP for example turns on the ICE). That'd be great.

You are assuming Nissan hasn't already started development - say 2 years ago.

BTW, there is a good case to be made for using engine in a PHEV in 2 others ways, compared to Volt.
1. Use electric only in lower speed/ power. This reduces the stress on batteries (and theoretically reduces price).
2. Use a small gas engine to extent the range by 100 miles or so, like in I3.

Energi price will tell us whether (1) is true. i3 with extender will tell us how well (2) works.

Instead of a PHEV like Energi, I might opt to get Infinity EV + i3, if Energi is not well executed.

 

[scottf200]

It has taking other companies 3 years to developer *EV*w/ICEs at a rapid pace. Nissan will have this type (PHEV,EREV,EVER) of car by 2015 or 2016 at least so they can compete with Ford C MAX Energi, Toyota Prius, and Chevrolet Volt. I sure hope it works more like the Volt in that the electric battery always until it runs out and is used regardless of the load (heavy foot=ICE) and the MPH (62 MPH in the PIP for example turns on the ICE). That'd be great.

You are assuming Nissan hasn't already started development - say 2 years ago.

BTW, there is a good case to be made for using engine in a PHEV in 2 others ways, compared to Volt.
1. Use electric only in lower speed/ power. This reduces the stress on batteries (and theoretically reduces price).<snip>

I guess I figured that if Nissan made such a huge bet on the company with the LEAF that they would have put all their best resources on it with less for PHEVs.
We know from Nissan/Infinity tho they are making a PHEV/REEV ("range-extended electric" vehicle) so we know they started a while ago. (Update/link here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6840" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

 

[scottf200]

Meant to do this a while back but was distracted by life/work.

Some google searches show that Nissan is indeed getting into the PHEV market. Wonder if that will end up being their focus for the USA market as gas is so cheap here and the many other various reasons related to BEV vs PHEV adoptions. A couple of the articles refer to Europe, China, and Japan which seems to conflict with some opinions that there is no market there for PHEVs as it is a USA phenomena.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20124635-54/nissan-to-make-plug-in-hybrid-in-eco-car-push/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan said today it will make a new plug-in hybrid vehicle as part of a plan to improve product fuel efficiency and lower its environmental footprint.

At a press event in Yokohama, Japan, CEO Carlos Ghosn said Nissan will invest 70 percent of its annual research and development budget on environmental technologies in the next five years.

Its product road map calls for the introduction of a plug-in hybrid based on in-house technology and a new front-wheel hybrid model by 2015.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/us-nissan-plug-in-idUSTRE79N0HF20111024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Reuters) - Nissan Motor Co will launch a plug-in hybrid vehicle developed in-house in 2015 as part of its new five-year environmental plan, Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn said on Monday.
<snip>
As emissions and mileage regulations grow stricter around the world, Nissan and Renault are also sharing development costs with equity partner Daimler AG, with plans to work on fuel-cell vehicles together to complement battery EVs in the zero-emission field.

"When you combine the research and development budgets and the investments of these three companies you have the largest one in the industry," Ghosn told a news conference. "Nobody matches us."

Nissan will aim for a 35 percent improvement in fuel economy averaged across its fleet in Japan, China, Europe and the United States compared with 2005 levels by launching new technologies, including a front-wheel drive hybrid model, it said.

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2011/10/24/nissan-to-build-plug-in-hybrid-by-2016/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan Motor Co. said it will develop a new hybrid model and a plug-in hybrid by the 2016 fiscal year as part of a plan called the Nissan Green Program 2016, or NGP 2016. The car maker says the program focuses on reducing the company’s carbon footprint, shifting to renewable energy and increasing “the diversity of resources used by Nissan.”
The future models are part of a strategy to that includes improving corporate fuel economy by 35% compared with the 2005 level. Nissan says it will launch vehicles designed to give class-leading fuel economy across a range of market segments in the U.S., Europe, China and Japan.