Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

[user 10599]

RAV4-EV is now a $25,000 to $30,000 vehicle.

http://www.carmax.com/search?ANa=42...8-2e63259549de&Ep=search:results:results page

Oooh, okay I will include that in my short list if something happens and I need to replace my car earlier than expected. I'm half inclined to go test drive the one in Oxnard this weekend. But if I do that, I'm likely to buy it and I have way too many bills coming due this next year to be doing that.

 

[mihird]

When you fall asleep at the wheel . . . you wake up in pain.

That is a Lol!

Building/pricing a Tesla should theoretically cost more than the Bolt/Leaf. Leaving the battery capacity comparison aside, Tesla has shown that it tends to be on the forefront of innovation on every other aspect of EV construction..materials, aerodynamics, suspension, sensors etc. etc. when compared to the Chevy, Nissan or any other EV offerings..not to mention its vastly superior supercharging network.

The Bolt & Leaf will have to come lower in price compared to the Model 3 to remain competitive...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

When you fall asleep at the wheel . . . you wake up in pain.

That is a Lol!

Building/pricing a Tesla should theoretically cost more than the Bolt/Leaf. Leaving the battery capacity comparison aside, Tesla has shown that it tends to be on the forefront of innovation on every other aspect of EV construction..materials, aerodynamics, suspension, sensors etc. etc. when compared to the Chevy, Nissan or any other EV offerings..not to mention its vastly superior supercharging network.

The Bolt & Leaf will have to come lower in price compared to the Model 3 to remain competitive...

and they will because "an affordable vehicle for $35,000" is not something that is going to happen

 

[Valdemar]

It's worth noting that the Leaf has effectively been a sub 30k EV for like 6 months already given the incentives Nissan offers for purchasing one, including 0% financing for up to 72 months.

 

[dhanson865]

When you fall asleep at the wheel . . . you wake up in pain.

That is a Lol!

Building/pricing a Tesla should theoretically cost more than the Bolt/Leaf. Leaving the battery capacity comparison aside, Tesla has shown that it tends to be on the forefront of innovation on every other aspect of EV construction..materials, aerodynamics, suspension, sensors etc. etc. when compared to the Chevy, Nissan or any other EV offerings..not to mention its vastly superior supercharging network.

The Bolt & Leaf will have to come lower in price compared to the Model 3 to remain competitive...

except Tesla has two cost savings that Nissan/Chevy don't have access to.

1. Lack of dealer network taking a cut that increases costs for Nissan/Chevy
2. economies of scale / battery costs due to the gigafactory.

 

[Nubo]

...That or Chevy and Nissan will slot their offering in at $25K base. That will be tough with no vertically-integrated battery factory....

I thought Nissan did have their own battery factory, in TN? Capacity was 200,000 units per year, iirc...

 

[BoulderLeaf]

...That or Chevy and Nissan will slot their offering in at $25K base. That will be tough with no vertically-integrated battery factory....

I thought Nissan did have their own battery factory, in TN? Capacity was 200,000 units per year, iirc...

Yep, they do; in fact they have 3 of them: in Tennessee, in Japan, and in England. And yes it has been said that the Tennessee plant could produce 200,000 packs at full capacity.

I'm assuming that the 3 factories are all very roughly the same capacity since the Japanese plant handled all early LEAF production until the US factory came online, and the England factory handles all of the European supply (of the LEAF as well as thr NV200).

By the way, it was confirmed a few months ago that the England plant had swapped over to producing the 60 kWh packs, so I'm more and more inclined to believe we'll see the new LEAF at the end of the year as previously hinted.

As to the Gigafactory being a crucial price advantage, I'm not so sure. Tesla stated that their (public, anyway) intended price reduction target was 30%, to be achieved through economies of scale. That's isn't anything to sneeze at, especially given their already low price per kWh, but Chevy has stated that they can source their batteries for $125/kWh now with the Bolt. And Nissan has already stated years ago that their upcoming NMC chemistry will nearly halve the cost of the Nissan batteries (if they continue down that route - even a year now is quite a while when it comes to battery tech).

 

[BoulderLeaf]

It's worth noting that the Leaf has effectively been a sub 30k EV for like 6 months already given the incentives Nissan offers for purchasing one, including 0% financing for up to 72 months.

Exactly. Even the new 2016 SV/SL with 30 kWh battery and QC port can be had for just over $25k. I wonder if this price point will translate much to the new LEAF; if it does, I think it'll be a winner. 200 miles for $25-30k would be pretty amazing.

 

[Rebel44]

...That or Chevy and Nissan will slot their offering in at $25K base. That will be tough with no vertically-integrated battery factory....

I thought Nissan did have their own battery factory, in TN? Capacity was 200,000 units per year, iirc...

Yep, they do; in fact they have 3 of them: in Tennessee, in Japan, and in England. And yes it has been said that the Tennessee plant could produce 200,000 packs at full capacity.

I'm assuming that the 3 factories are all very roughly the same capacity since the Japanese plant handled all early LEAF production until the US factory came online, and the England factory handles all of the European supply (of the LEAF as well as thr NV200).

By the way, it was confirmed a few months ago that the England plant had swapped over to producing the 60 kWh packs, so I'm more and more inclined to believe we'll see the new LEAF at the end of the year as previously hinted.

As to the Gigafactory being a crucial price advantage, I'm not so sure. Tesla stated that their (public, anyway) intended price reduction target was 30%, to be achieved through economies of scale. That's isn't anything to sneeze at, especially given their already low price per kWh, but Chevy has stated that they can source their batteries for $125/kWh now with the Bolt. And Nissan has already stated years ago that their upcoming NMC chemistry will nearly halve the cost of the Nissan batteries (if they continue down that route - even a year now is quite a while when it comes to battery tech).

GMs battery cost for Bolt is based on packed deal with LG, that also stipulate many other parts to be provided by LG - so its very likely, that whatever money is LG losing on batteries, they make on other parts.

 

[dsh]

This Nissan Japan website is showing "Now" and "Future" version of the Nissan LEAF:

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/#ev

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/#tws

 

[cwerdna]

This Nissan Japan website is showing "Now" and "Future" version of the Nissan LEAF:

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/#ev

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/#tws

The "future" version looks like the IDS Concept: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/nissan-ids-concept-revealed-news.

I'd only seen the first video at http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-ids-concept-nissan-s-vision-for-the-future-of-evs-and-autonomous-driving directly on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TLo86K7Ck).

Discussion thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20832.

 

[Firetruck41]

This Nissan Japan website is showing "Now" and "Future" version of the Nissan LEAF:

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/#ev

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/#tws

The "now" looks like a Versa, not a Leaf.

 

[garsh]

The "now" looks like a Versa, not a Leaf.

I had that happen to me too.
It started off being a picture of the IDS concept, then quickly switched to a Versa. I don't know why.

 

[dsh]

The second link shows actually a Silver Leaf.

http://www2.nissan.co.jp/BRAND/SP/

 

[fotajoye]

It's worth noting that the Leaf has effectively been a sub 30k EV for like 6 months already given the incentives Nissan offers for purchasing one, including 0% financing for up to 72 months.

Exactly. Even the new 2016 SV/SL with 30 kWh battery and QC port can be had for just over $25k. I wonder if this price point will translate much to the new LEAF; if it does, I think it'll be a winner. 200 miles for $25-30k would be pretty amazing.

Nissan is not an innovative electric car company; They are, like many of the legacy auto companies, choosing to run center pack after a strong thrust into EVs initially and using DOE money to build EV/ICEV duel factories, they backed off and chose to go to sleep until everyone caught up and Tesla started pushing. Nissan's policies are based on what they know and that's ICEVs which easily explains their lack of investment and thus advancement in timely improving the range of their batteries. It also explains their decision to not offer upgraded batteries for their older model Leafs...they simply don't want to be bothered by customers.

 

[ydnas7]

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37196&id=36493&id=36484

comparing side by side, I expect Nissan to be about 10% - 15% more range than Chev Bolt, if both had the same battery capacity.

 

[LeftieBiker]

That is the video that was released with the appearance of the concept car - I remember it. Do not take it to be anything more than that.

 

[Jedlacks]

IMHO, Nissan could put more batteries in the Leaf. Other modifiers have done it so we know it is possible. If it is a City car, why do we need such a large truck space? Put in 25% more batteries in the area that over people put the luggage carrier and some place the spare tire. There is also space below the floor pan in the trunk area. Also, duct a cooling air pipe from the A/C to the battery enclosure. It may not be 100% effective, but something might be gained from it. With the active cooling, they could then increase the charge from 6.6kw to 10kw and have us bridge that gap between chargers.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

IMHO, Nissan could put more batteries in the Leaf. Other modifiers have done it so we know it is possible. If it is a City car, why do we need such a large truck space? Put in 25% more batteries in the area that over people put the luggage carrier and some place the spare tire. There is also space below the floor pan in the trunk area. Also, duct a cooling air pipe from the A/C to the battery enclosure. It may not be 100% effective, but something might be gained from it. With the active cooling, they could then increase the charge from 6.6kw to 10kw and have us bridge that gap between chargers.

Nissan has done so extensively. now their current thoughts are known only to them.

my guess; extensive redesign required to handle the extra weight. Even with power density improvements we are still likely talking about a few hundred pounds which is essentially doubled when we consider passengers and cargo.

This leads me to think Nissan should have gone with a slightly larger platform initially that would have handled the extra weight from day one. It would appear they miscalculated

1) the speed of battery innovation
2) the reaction time of their competition
3) the customer's level of patience

 

[Firetruck41]

IMHO, Nissan could put more batteries in the Leaf. Other modifiers have done it so we know it is possible. If it is a City car, why do we need such a large truck space? Put in 25% more batteries in the area that over people put the luggage carrier and some place the spare tire. There is also space below the floor pan in the trunk area. Also, duct a cooling air pipe from the A/C to the battery enclosure. It may not be 100% effective, but something might be gained from it. With the active cooling, they could then increase the charge from 6.6kw to 10kw and have us bridge that gap between chargers.

They have already added "25% more batteries" (capacity) in the same physical footprint (2015 24kwh vs available 2016 30kwh), so no need to go through all that stuff with the trunk, luggage carrier, etc. IIRC, they have already displayed prototype battery with a 150% increase in capacity, on the same footprint as the original battery, just appears to be about 2" taller, effectively reducing ground clearance an inch or two, if it were dropped into the current Leaf. So I hope they continue that development, instead of eating into the interior space, which I find very valuable, with my family of five.