smkettner
Well-known member
I saw no specifics.edatoakrun said:
I assume more rear leg room will be the Nissan spec that exceeds Bolt.
Nissan: We Can Match Bolt
- Thread starter evnow
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
I assume more rear leg room will be the Nissan spec that exceeds Bolt.
Priceless pictures of Carlos G. appearing to react after checking out the Bolt:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101940_carlos-ghosns-face-shows-nissans-reaction-to-2017-chevy-bolt-ev
Later on in the article it outlines some of the stuff I've been expecting will be announced by Nissan - multiple pack offerings at extra cost, for example, would be one of the biggies. Though I don't think I remember hearing that the largest offering would only be good for 150 miles.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101940_carlos-ghosns-face-shows-nissans-reaction-to-2017-chevy-bolt-ev
Later on in the article it outlines some of the stuff I've been expecting will be announced by Nissan - multiple pack offerings at extra cost, for example, would be one of the biggies. Though I don't think I remember hearing that the largest offering would only be good for 150 miles.
evnow
Well-known member
GCR always tries to portray Leaf/Nissan in the lowest light possible. They pick and chose quotes.mwalsh said:
In this case they are choosing to quote old Andy's interview from 2014 rather than recent the present product manager.
evnow said:
Yes, BUT (and I'm not one to defend GCR at all, since they apparently banned me from posting to their stupid site!) the 200 mile option was just recently announced to the public. All this might show is that GCR is not as on-the-ball as they should be (no surprise there!).
dm33
Well-known member
I despise some of the pro-GM sites such as Hybridcars.com and GM-volt sites. Run by the same people. Only want to spread their pro-GM views. It's why I didn't buy a Volt.mwalsh said:
Despite those sites, the Bolt looks very promising.
Edit: I confused GCR w Hybridcars.com
TomT
Well-known member
I'm sorry but not guying a car because of a dislike for a forum is simply silly...
dm33 said:
dm33
Well-known member
To each his own. I figure if someone is so protective of their product that they have to stifle any discussion that isn't glowing, that they're more likely to be hiding some bad news they don't want to hear or allow someone to say. Imagine a LEAF website that didn't allow users to talk about battery problems. I'd rather know about it and make informed decisions. If you know the site prevents any discussion of it, make me worry more. Besides, its just a nasty attitude to have.TomT said:
TomT said:
I'm not buying a car because I dislike a man. And I don't have enough money. But mostly because I dislike a man!
Firetruck41
Well-known member
I was looking to get a new phone, there was an apple enthusiast forum that had a bunch of fan boys and they stifled mention about the competition, so I went on an android forum and they were the same way, so I guess I will be destined to live with a feature phone for the rest of my life!
See how that doesn't make a lot of sense? :roll:
I guarantee there is a pro-(fill in manufacturer of choice) website out there, that would preclude one from buying any car, ever, if absence of such, was a purchasing criteria.
See how that doesn't make a lot of sense? :roll:
I guarantee there is a pro-(fill in manufacturer of choice) website out there, that would preclude one from buying any car, ever, if absence of such, was a purchasing criteria.
I hope that Nissan pushes the Leaf 2 on everyday people and takes a step back from this environmental crap. I don't give a crap about the environment, I won't be shamed into caring. I bought the Leaf because it made economical sense. My Q45 and my 300zx cost more in fuel than the payments on the Leaf. Even as the price of fuel comes down, temporarily of course, I cannot bring myself to drive either of them. The electric car is that much better of a car to drive. I've had my Leaf, 7 or 8 months and I've put 20,800km on to it. The thing is nearly a rocket ship, it passes people with ease and has no problems getting to velocities that require over speed permits. It can climb hills with the cruise control on that my V8 would kick out of cruise for and need to grab a gear to accelerate up the hill. Maintenance is almost non-existent and can be done completely in ones driveway. I wasn't bothered by doing oil changes but now I dread having to do them on my wife's car. The electric car is a better car, but not because it's green or might save the environment. Drop that crap and show how much better of a car it is and it will appeal to a larger audience.
Clearly some of you are lacking mechanical aptitude. A battery system with no thermal management is better, period. It's simple math, less parts to go wrong is always better. As someone else has mentioned Nissan took the difficult risky path but if they are successful the payoff in product quality will be that much better.
Another way to look at this would be that direct thermal management of batteries is a crutch. Instead of addressing the hardware problem an external solution, or band-aid is applied. Good for short term gains. Cylindrical batteries are also a poor design choice due to wasted volume. As energy density goes up the company with the best density per cubic centimeter will win the big prize.
Nissan playing their cards close to their chest is smart. It's like chess, you want to be responding to the other players moves so that you have time to think about what you want to do, instead of having to guess what the other guy is going to do.
Clearly some of you are lacking mechanical aptitude. A battery system with no thermal management is better, period. It's simple math, less parts to go wrong is always better. As someone else has mentioned Nissan took the difficult risky path but if they are successful the payoff in product quality will be that much better.
Another way to look at this would be that direct thermal management of batteries is a crutch. Instead of addressing the hardware problem an external solution, or band-aid is applied. Good for short term gains. Cylindrical batteries are also a poor design choice due to wasted volume. As energy density goes up the company with the best density per cubic centimeter will win the big prize.
Nissan playing their cards close to their chest is smart. It's like chess, you want to be responding to the other players moves so that you have time to think about what you want to do, instead of having to guess what the other guy is going to do.
Nubo
Well-known member
NavyCuda said:
And Nisasn doesn't care that you don't give a crap. They appeal to environmentally-conscious consumers because there are many of them and they tend to be more affluent and are more likely to be interested in the LEAF. That being said, they've already indicated that their outreach will be broader time goes on. Iirc, Ghosn referred to the larger market as "the pragmatic majority".
I guess the point I'm trying to make in that paragraph is that there is a market for the Leaf to people who don't believe in man made climate change, but can see the logical value of a car that has extremely low operating costs and offers a pleasurable, relaxing driving experience. Nissan would be wise to listen to every person who is willing to spend their pay cheques on their vehicles. I've changed the mind of a number of people with similar mindsets to me, who made fun of me and rightfully so, for buying a green car. Now I can demonstrate that if you ignore the green connotations, the Leaf is a better car. It makes sense as a commuter, especially for those of us with four cars or more. If I need to go beyond the range of my Leaf, I take my precious Q45. If I really need to carve some corners I get into the 300zx. If I need to go somewhere, cheaply and reliably without feeling guilty for increasing the odometer reading, I take the Leaf.
GRA
Well-known member
AFAIA, no one disputes that a battery pack that doesn't need a TMS is the ultimate goal. The problem is that to date, no one has come up with a battery that has sufficient durability/longevity/temperature insensitivity to make going without a TMS in most of the U.S. a cost-effective solution. One person's Band-aid is another person's essential piece of engineering.NavyCuda said:
Everyone will do a happy dance once BEV battery packs no longer require a TMS, but we aren't there yet, as all too many of the early adopters here discovered. None of them, who were so badly burned by Nissan before, is willing to take Nissan's (or anyone else's FTM) word, but demand a viable warranty.
People know that a properly-engineered TMS is the only proven method that can keep a battery pack in the preferred moderate temperate range that doesn't lead to accelerated degradation or temporary capacity loss. Until some company has demonstrated, at large scale and in real-world service (not some accelerated test done on small scale) that their chemistry doesn't need a TMS to have minimal heat degradation and not lose winter capacity due to cold, most educated people who live in anything other than mild climates will insist on one. If you live in a mild climate or are willing to roll the dice based on a corporation's say-so, more power to you.
dm33
Well-known member
Have you looked on myNissanLeaf.com??? It is hardly a pro-LEAF website that doesn't allow saying anything anti-LEAF. If they banned everyone who said anything negative about the LEAF or Nissan, there would be no one left.Firetruck41 said:
Most sites I visit are balanced providing information and open discussion. Sites that only support one viewpoint are not interesting. Nothing to learn there.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
dm33 said:
Your reasoning is difficult to follow. Are you saying that if a manufacturer has fans that start a forum and act like fan boys, and you happen to find that forum, you won't buy from that manufacturer? Even though the manufacturer has nothing to do with the website or forum?
But if the manufacturer has fans that start a forum and they are more critical of the manufacturer, and you happen to find that forum, you will purchase from that manufacturer? Even though the manufacturer has nothing to do with the website or forum?
Nubo
Well-known member
(emphasis added)NavyCuda said:
I think what you're trying to say is that Nissan doesn't just need to stop marketing to environmentalists, but to actively appeal to anti-environmentalists. :lol:
dm33
Well-known member
Ya, pretty much. Every Volt website I've found has been adamantly protective. gm-volt, hybridcars, sure there are others. Why so protective. Why not allow discussion of anything non-pro Volt? How can you find out the drawbacks of the car if no one is allowed to say it? Makes me assume the worst because I can't get open information. The manufacturer may or may not have had anything to do with it. Actually I believe several of the people involved in gm-volt work for gm, but that doesn't mean GM is directing their actions.Firetruck41 said:
I'm not seeking a site thats pointlessly critical, rather one that allows an open discussion.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
This part makes sense, when looking for third party websites.dm33 said:
Firetruck41
Well-known member
Ha! I think they should begin to market to all segments, but clearly environmentalists should be an emphasis. This coming from a non-environmentalist... (not anti, not trying to destroy the earth, environment just not the first thing on my priority list...)Nubo said:
golfcart
Well-known member
NavyCuda said:
I think the leaf is a good car from an environmental perspective but I try not to be really preachy or smug about it. I removed the "zero emission" badges on my car the week I brought it home as I felt they were both misleading and do more harm than good in the big picture. Most people just roll their eyes when they see stuff like that, get defensive, or immediately start thinking of reasons why it is not as "green" as advertised. I might as well toss a "coexist" sticker, a stick figure family, and a 26.2 emblem (hey look at me I run marathons) on my back window while I'm at it.
As you have said, the car stacks up well on its own merits and is very attractive as a commuter or second vehicle in multi-car households due to the low operating costs, reliability, and the simple fact that they are a pleasure to drive with the smooth quiet performance that only an EV can give. I have found myself driving it almost exclusively for my use (my WRX just sits in the garage) and it has also become our family weekend car for around town.
I too have had friends/strangers come away very impressed with the car after talking with me about it, going for a ride, or especially driving it. I am actually shocked how many people walk up to me at the store when I am plugging in my vehicle and end up having a 15-20min conversation about it with me about owning an electric car so I think the interest/curiosity is definitely there.
I also always thought that the leaf (or any EV) makes a lot of sense from a patriotic-libertarianish perspective and would love to see it marketed in that way...
1) They are low maintenance which reduces your reliance on dealerships or repair shops (modern ICE cars are getting harder and harder to fix yourself).
2) You are not sending money to countries that are known to support terrorism and have had U.S. military intervention (driving a BEV supports our troops)
3) You have the ability to produce your own power (if paired with solar panels) and potentially be more self reliant.
4) Even if you don't produce your own power you are getting 100% domestic energy to power your vehicle.
5) It saves you money in the long haul, even at $1.50 a gallon my leaf is still cheaper to drive than my WRX.
6) EV's at least move the emissions away from population centers which improves the air quality locally where you live. Also point source emissions like power plants are probably easier to clean up/control than 1000's of little gas power plants driving around.