Official Ford C-MAX Energi PHEV thread

[DaveinOlyWA]

. There's still no magic bullet PHEV out there yet, from my perspective.

I agree - but partly because everyone has different tastes in cars and everyone has different needs as well. I love smaller cars myself. The Gen-2 Prius is one of my favorite body styles. Which is ironic because most people (especially 'car people') hate the styling of the Prius. If Toyota were to produce a plug-in-prius that matched the capabilities of the C-Max Energi in regards to EV speed and range, and keep the premium over the regular prius below $5,000... then I think they'd have a hit on their hands.

But.. Honestly.. The Prius needs a makeover. I used to love the Prius because it was so high tech. But I must admit after driving our Leaf and Volt, the interior of the Prius starts to look a bit dated. While still much better than your typical gas car (with analog gauges...shudder) it has fallen behind. Even the Prius C and Prius V have nice color screens. So I suspect the next generation of the Prius liftback and PiP will probably get a facelift inside too. I just hope they increase the PHEV capabilities more.

Isnt that Lexus' role? I also admit to being a bit surprised that Toyota has not released a Prius like vehicle with the Lexus nameplate. They have hybrids but nothing remotely close to the Prius mileage numbers.

it is easy to see why you as a long time Prius driver might become a bit jaded to the technology but I have had another family convert who has been gushing like like Old Faithful for the past 5 weeks over his and he got a used one... a 2009

 

[Boomer23]

Isnt that Lexus' role? I also admit to being a bit surprised that Toyota has not released a Prius like vehicle with the Lexus nameplate. They have hybrids but nothing remotely close to the Prius mileage numbers.

Dave, are you aware of the Lexus CT200h? It's their entry level car, with MPG something like 43/40.

 

[TomT]

Unfortunately, it is also a pretty unimpressive vehicle... The reviews have been universally mediocre. The RX450H is their only high-end hybrid, albeit more focused on performance than economy...

Dave, are you aware of the Lexus CT200h? It's their entry level car, with MPG something like 43/40.

 

[KeiJidosha]

I rented a CMax hybrid during a week on Maui recently and I was quite impressed with many things about the car. The CMax Energi is on my list for the plug-in that will eventually replace our 2007 Prius, so this was a great opportunity for a long term road test of the hybrid version...

Hey Boom, Thanks for the review and feedback. I thought this was off our list but Mrs Jidosha has brought it up again as a Murano replacement now that Outlander PHEV is "stalled".

...The engine was responsive and more powerful than our Prius. I had no problems climbing the hills and the slopes of Mt. Haleakala...

Here's where your mileage went. This is a 10,000 foot dead lift. The battery is too small to mitigate it, and switchbacks too tight to "coast" for benefit. But I am hearing low actual MPG numbers generally for the CMax Hybrid/Energi.

BTW, how did you like the brakes (regen integration)?

 

[cwerdna]

Unfortunately, it is also a pretty unimpressive vehicle... The reviews have been universally mediocre. The RX450H is their only high-end hybrid, albeit more focused on performance than economy...

Dave, are you aware of the Lexus CT200h? It's their entry level car, with MPG something like 43/40.

Yeah, I wouldn't want the CT either. Compared to the regular Prius, it's smaller inside, slower and gets worse mileage. I don't like its styling either. The interior bits are of much better quality than any Prius though.

Lexus did have the HS but that was killed after poor sales (I won a one week test drive of it a few years ago). There is the ES hybrid now, which is a gussied up Camry Hybrid. If I were to want to take a mileage hit, I'd MUCH rather have a faster (200 hp), larger and nicer car like the HyCam or Lexus ES hybrid (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33374&id=32711&id=33288&id=33324" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/fuel-economy-vs-performance/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

I'm not sure what you mean by "The RX450H is their only high-end hybrid". Besides the CT, ES and RX, there's are the GS and LS hybrids. They get pretty pricey starting at the RX level.

 

[Boomer23]

I rented a CMax hybrid during a week on Maui recently and I was quite impressed with many things about the car. The CMax Energi is on my list for the plug-in that will eventually replace our 2007 Prius, so this was a great opportunity for a long term road test of the hybrid version...

Hey Boom, Thanks for the review and feedback. I thought this was off our list but Mrs Jidosha has brought it up again as a Murano replacement now that Outlander PHEV is "stalled".

...The engine was responsive and more powerful than our Prius. I had no problems climbing the hills and the slopes of Mt. Haleakala...

Here's where your mileage went. This is a 10,000 foot dead lift. The battery is too small to mitigate it, and switchbacks too tight to "coast" for benefit. But I am hearing low actual MPG numbers generally for the CMax Hybrid/Energi.

BTW, how did you like the brakes (regen integration)?

Yeah, but we didn't go higher than Kula, which only gets up to 3,000 ft or so. And the on board MPG gauge read 45 MPG for all of our other driving. It went down to about 42 MPG when we were in Kula and up to the winery, but it was back to 45 MPG by the time we got back to sea level. So I'm aware that hill climbing kills MPG, but we seemed to regain our average by the time we returned to the valley.

Braking felt good throughout the speed range, except for grabby brakes at parking lot speeds, at least early on, before I was used to the pedal.

 

[TomT]

To my knowledge, the RX450H is the only high-performance, four wheel drive, 3 electric motor hybrid they make. I could be wrong, however, as I do not pay that much attention to Lexus...

I'm not sure what you mean by "The RX450H is their only high-end hybrid".

 

[cwerdna]

To my knowledge, the RX450H is the only high-performance, four wheel drive, 3 electric motor hybrid they make. I could be wrong, however, as I do not pay that much attention to Lexus...

I'm not sure what you mean by "The RX450H is their only high-end hybrid".

Ahh... if you want AWD/4WD, the only choices are RX and LS hybrids.

Lexus is claiming 0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds w/the 338 hp RWD GS hybrid (http://www.lexus.com/models/GS/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. You might get a chuckle out of the video at http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/19/lexus-challenges-passengers-to-control-their-heart-rates-in-a/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

What i question is why we dont have a 50 mpg Prius branded as a Lexus. Maybe not identical in looks, just identical mechanically with the interior upgrades common to the expensive brands. Its like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. Many of the same cars, same mpg's but different interiors
43 mpg might look good to most but if coming from a Prius, its a letdown

 

[Boomer23]

I rented a CMax hybrid during a week on Maui recently and I was quite impressed with many things about the car. The CMax Energi is on my list for the plug-in that will eventually replace our 2007 Prius, so this was a great opportunity for a long term road test of the hybrid version...

Hey Boom, Thanks for the review and feedback. I thought this was off our list but Mrs Jidosha has brought it up again as a Murano replacement now that Outlander PHEV is "stalled".

...The engine was responsive and more powerful than our Prius. I had no problems climbing the hills and the slopes of Mt. Haleakala...

Here's where your mileage went. This is a 10,000 foot dead lift. The battery is too small to mitigate it, and switchbacks too tight to "coast" for benefit. But I am hearing low actual MPG numbers generally for the CMax Hybrid/Energi.

BTW, how did you like the brakes (regen integration)?

Yeah, but we didn't go higher than Kula, which only gets up to 3,000 ft or so. And the on board MPG gauge read 45 MPG for all of our other driving. It went down to about 42 MPG when we were in Kula and up to the winery, but it was back to 45 MPG by the time we got back to sea level. So I'm aware that hill climbing kills MPG, but we seemed to regain our average by the time we returned to the valley.

Braking felt good throughout the speed range, except for grabby brakes at parking lot speeds, at least early on, before I was used to the pedal.

Oh, and KJ, by the way, get the CMax SEL if you can afford it. Leather seats, power driver seat, rear camera and rear parking sensors that work together, foot signaled rear hatch with power open/close, huge moonroof with power sunscreen, it goes on and on. It's a very nice package.

 

[adric22]

What i question is why we dont have a 50 mpg Prius branded as a Lexus. Maybe not identical in looks, just identical mechanically with the interior upgrades common to the expensive brands. Its like the difference between Ford and Lincoln. Many of the same cars, same mpg's but different interiors
43 mpg might look good to most but if coming from a Prius, its a letdown

I'm pretty sure that is what the Ct200 is. It understand it uses the exact same drivetrain as the Prius. Most likely the loss of MPG comes from the less aerodynamic shape compared to the Prius.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I venture to say its from a more powerful engine, wider heavier tires, etc. not sure of the weight and part of the weight would be sound deadening so an "acceptable" upscale compromise...

Makes me think that no one has been able to duplicate Prius performance due to the uniqueness of thedesign?

 

[KeiJidosha]

...Oh, and KJ, by the way, get the CMax SEL if you can afford it. Leather seats, power driver seat, rear camera and rear parking sensors that work together, foot signaled rear hatch with power open/close, huge moonroof with power sunscreen, it goes on and on. It's a very nice package.

Because of the Venus/Mars thing, I don't know why, but Mrs. Jidosha decided on Friday she needed a PHEV. Right now?!? Looked at Volt, C-Max Energi, Prius PIP and V (No. I’m sure the Prius V doesn’t have a plug. OK, well check anyway). Only the C-Max and the V passed the dog crate test. As you probably guessed by where this is posted, we got the C-Max Energi. Sterling Grey and Stone with 303A, but no moonroof (won't open for ventilation).

Now, how to settle the rassel for the EVSE

 

[Boomer23]

...Oh, and KJ, by the way, get the CMax SEL if you can afford it. Leather seats, power driver seat, rear camera and rear parking sensors that work together, foot signaled rear hatch with power open/close, huge moonroof with power sunscreen, it goes on and on. It's a very nice package.

Because of the Venus/Mars thing, I don't know why, but Mrs. Jidosha decided on Friday she needed a PHEV. Right now?!? Looked at Volt, C-Max Energi, Prius PIP and V (No. I’m sure the Prius V doesn’t have a plug. OK, well check anyway). Only the PIP and the V passed the dog crate test. As you probably guessed by where this is posted, we got the C-Max Energi. Sterling Grey and Stone with 303A, but no moonroof (won't open for ventilation).

Now, how to settle the rassel for the EVSE

Cool KJ. But what about the dog crate, it won't fit the Energi, so what's the solution?

On the EVSE, will a Level 1 work for the smaller batt in the Energi?

I'm stoked to follow your impressions, EV range, mpg. Which forum will you be posting on?

 

[KeiJidosha]

...Oh, and KJ, by the way, get the CMax SEL if you can afford it. Leather seats, power driver seat, rear camera and rear parking sensors that work together, foot signaled rear hatch with power open/close, huge moonroof with power sunscreen, it goes on and on. It's a very nice package.

Because of the Venus/Mars thing, I don't know why, but Mrs. Jidosha decided on Friday she needed a PHEV. Right now?!? Looked at Volt, C-Max Energi, Prius PIP and V (No. I’m sure the Prius V doesn’t have a plug. OK, well check anyway). Only the PIP and the V passed the dog crate test. As you probably guessed by where this is posted, we got the C-Max Energi. Sterling Grey and Stone with 303A, but no moonroof (won't open for ventilation).

Now, how to settle the rassel for the EVSE

Cool KJ. But what about the dog crate, it won't fit the Energi, so what's the solution?

On the EVSE, will a Level 1 work for the smaller batt in the Energi?

I'm stoked to follow your impressions, EV range, mpg. Which forum will you be posting on?

Apparently I’m over my quota of critical reading I meant to say the C-Max And Prius V passed the crate test.

I think we are going to kick the Fit out of the garage. Or might end up adding an outlet to the front corner of the garage or installing an OpenEVSE. Just finished charging the Cmax on the Clipper Creek and it took 130 minutes at 3.5kW, and 7.0kWh total from "empty". Should charge in 7 hours on 120 which would be OK for us.

Interesting to watch the sales reps struggle to demonstrate the Energi when it hasn’t been charged, and is running in Hybrid mode. Gas engine is struggling to keep up while trying to charge the depleted battery. We convinced them to put on the charger overnight and came back today. Car ran totally different and all the EV modes worked.

As to posting, not sure yet. Wasn't prepared for the sudden change of direction...

 

[Boomer23]

Interesting to watch the sales reps struggle to demonstrate the Energi when it hasn’t been charged, and is running in Hybrid mode. Gas engine is struggling to keep up while trying to charge the depleted battery. We convinced them to put on the charger overnight and came back today. Car ran totally different and all the EV modes worked.

Yeah, as I recall from a brief test drive of the Energi, it felt much more responsive and fun on EV mode, reminiscent of a LEAF. But the hybrid I drove in Hawaii felt more responsive than a Prius. Wondering if the extra weight of the batt will make it sluggish in hybrid mode. Interested in your driving impressions in both modes once you get it broke in. And if you can pry it away from the Mrs.

 

[adric22]

Interesting to watch the sales reps struggle to demonstrate the Energi when it hasn’t been charged, and is running in Hybrid mode. Gas engine is struggling to keep up while trying to charge the depleted battery. We convinced them to put on the charger overnight and came back today. Car ran totally different and all the EV modes worked.

I'm most curious to hear your impressions of the "EV Now" mode. I've tried finding reviews on youtube and most will mention the mode, or even show it on the screen. But haven't really found any reviewers who actually drove the car in EV mode and what the performance was like. How does the acceleration feel? Is it practical to drive on the highway with EV mode? How many real-world miles were you able to get per charge? How would you compare driving EV mode in the C-Max to something like a Leaf or a Volt? Ultimately, my question boils down to this. If your round trip commute was less than 21 miles, would you be able to essentially drive the C-Max as an EV? I understand this is difficult to do in a Prius Plug-in, even if you have a short commute.

I'm interested, not so much because I want one myself, but I need to know if I can recommend it to people who are interested in an EV. Many people want the "experience" of driving an EV, and thus with the limited EV performance of the energi products, I'm not sure how the "experience" ranks. Take the Volt, for example. I've been driving one for about 6 weeks since my wife and I swapped cars. I have yet to run the gas engine, or even get close for that matter. The least remaining EV range I've seen on the dash has been 11 miles. Most days it is a good bit more than that. Since the Volt has full power, both at low speed and high speed, and makes no compromise on A/C and heater, I essentially have a full-time EV that happens to lug around a gas engine. And so, I'm wondering if the C-Max would be able to achieve the same thing, if a person's commute were short enough?

 

[TomT]

It's one of the reasons why I haven't found most of the PHEVs to be acceptable. With such a short electric range, they would be on gas too often for our usage and way too much of a dog when so... I've made a point to drive them both fully charged and charge depleted to see how they respond... At this stage of the game, I still believe that a HEV is a much better deal, not even considering the space issues...

Interesting to watch the sales reps struggle to demonstrate the Energi when it hasn’t been charged, and is running in Hybrid mode. Gas engine is struggling to keep up while trying to charge the depleted battery.

 

[nogajim]

Only the C-Max and the V passed the dog crate test.

You must have a Dachshund or a Basset. I don't think the C-Max is deep enough for many people's cargo needs. Glad it works for you! Congratulations!

 

[KeiJidosha]

Interesting to watch the sales reps struggle to demonstrate the Energi when it hasn’t been charged, and is running in Hybrid mode. Gas engine is struggling to keep up while trying to charge the depleted battery. We convinced them to put on the charger overnight and came back today. Car ran totally different and all the EV modes worked.

I'm most curious to hear your impressions of the "EV Now" mode. I've tried finding reviews on youtube and most will mention the mode, or even show it on the screen. But haven't really found any reviewers who actually drove the car in EV mode and what the performance was like. How does the acceleration feel? Is it practical to drive on the highway with EV mode? How many real-world miles were you able to get per charge? How would you compare driving EV mode in the C-Max to something like a Leaf or a Volt? Ultimately, my question boils down to this. If your round trip commute was less than 21 miles, would you be able to essentially drive the C-Max as an EV? I understand this is difficult to do in a Prius Plug-in, even if you have a short commute.

I'm interested, not so much because I want one myself, but I need to know if I can recommend it to people who are interested in an EV. Many people want the "experience" of driving an EV, and thus with the limited EV performance of the energi products, I'm not sure how the "experience" ranks. Take the Volt, for example. I've been driving one for about 6 weeks since my wife and I swapped cars. I have yet to run the gas engine, or even get close for that matter. The least remaining EV range I've seen on the dash has been 11 miles. Most days it is a good bit more than that. Since the Volt has full power, both at low speed and high speed, and makes no compromise on A/C and heater, I essentially have a full-time EV that happens to lug around a gas engine. And so, I'm wondering if the C-Max would be able to achieve the same thing, if a person's commute were short enough?

Our trip Saturday was originally to just test drive C-Max and Prius and look at colors. New sales rep at Ford spent over two hours demoing/explaining the C-Max, and was really well versed on all the functions, but by the end of the test drive my wife was cross-eyed with questions.

The thing that seemed to turn this from a sightseeing trip to a serious purchase was this video from Car and Drivers’s contributing Editor Csaba Csere test driving the C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid in San Francisco (where my daughter lives). We watched it (and about 4 hours of C-Max training videos) on YouTube that evening, after which, she was all about the C-Max.

If you forward to 10:20 Csaba is driving the Energi in EV Now mode. As he says, not scintillating, but competent at legal speeds. I will be interested to see if the leadfoot Mrs will be content with EV Now mode on her short, non-freeway, dash to work and class every day. If so, our “gas” bill could go from ~$250 to ~$50.