Official Toyota Prius PHEV thread

[mitch672]

Probably so, but the handwriting is also on the wall that there will be less and less HOV lane access for such stickers as plans are made to convert more and more lanes to exclude such stickered vehicles unless they are actually carrying multiple persons. At least here in southern California, that is...

Color me silly, but I'm just not willing to pay many thousands more to essentially buy a sticker that has limited usefulness to me (either because most of the freeways I travel don't have HOV lanes or the HOV lanes on those freeways have become nearly as congested as the non-HOV lanes). The vehicle also has to be able to stand on its own merits and the PHEV Prius does not.

Besides, once those 40,000 stickers are gone, that sales incentive disappears.

Toyota built it, and they will sell ALL they can make for 1 simple reason: CA HOV lane access.

Toyota is only making 15,000 PiPs for the ENTIRE US market in 2012, it will be a few years before there are 40,000 PiPs/Chevy Volts/Fisker Karmas just in CA, although the bulk of the 15,000 are being sold mostly in CA. The stickers are only good for 2 years anyway, but there are people who value their TIME, who will pay the premium to get the HOV lane access. Once the stickers expire or are no longer availble, the PiP is just as good as any standard Prius and will still get nearly 50mpg, so it stands on that, and you get some miniscule amount of EV, which will boost the MPG a little more. Many, many, many people would much rather have some electric range and no limits on where the vehicle can go (read that as they really want gasoline backup), many are NOT comfortable with the Leafs horrible 70mile highway range, and will never be, thats why many many more gas cars and PHEVs will be sold than pure EVs, until battery technology and charging infrastructure is much better than it is today.

 

[TomT]

Remember that it is not just the PHEV Prius that is vying for those 40,000 stickers but also the Volt as of March and a number of others by the end of the year... I suspect that 40,000 will go faster than many believe... After that, it essentially just becomes a much more expensive hybrid with limited rebates due to the very small size of the pack... Toyota could have done so much better by it if they had wanted...

Toyota is only making 15,000 PiPs for the ENTIRE US market in 2012, it will be a few years before there are 40,000 of them just in CA, although the bulk of the 15,000 are being sold mostly in CA.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Toyota is only making 15,000 PiPs for the ENTIRE US market in 2012

How about testing the water, you mentioned that is to expensive for you?

 

[hill]

Except that, if follows the course of the current Prius v and uses the same driveline as the sedan PHEV, the added weight, reduced aerodynamics, and lower gearing of the v version will further reduce the already severely limited electric range...

I'm sticking by your rumor post on PC ... that the PiP v is on the, not-too-distant horizon. That'll be a SWEET trade for our Lexus SUV hybrid
... although I'll miss the AWD function that the 400h has.

hate to brake the news, but there's no gearing in the HSD.

and although the v is 50% larger on the inside, cargo room wise, the v isn't really that much heavier. And for us, looking to downsize from the MUCH heavier Lexus SUV hybrid, we'll be doing way better mpg wise.
.

 

[TomT]

Sorry, but almost every vehicle has gearing, including even the leaf. The motor is not bolted straight to the wheel on these vehicles, it goes through a gear-train and differential. In the case of the v, they used a lower final gear ratio (higher numerically) in an otherwise identical Prius drive-line to achieve an acceptable - albeit still lower - level of performance as compared to the regular Prius. This is partially responsible for the v's lower mileage numbers...

hate to brake the news, but there's no gearing in the HSD.

 

[mitch672]

Toyota is only making 15,000 PiPs for the ENTIRE US market in 2012

How about testing the water, you mentioned that is to expensive for you?

I might still buy it, as there is nothing else availble. The Volt is a joke, I can't even get into the thing. My point is, I already get 50mpg and have a 2 year old 2010 Prius, its not worth $20K to ME, to get 6 miles of EV range (I have a $20K offer on my 2010 Prius from carmax). If I lived in CA, I would be all over the PiP.

More likely I will keep waiting, as I have been since I put down a $500 deposit on the PiP in 2008, and got sick of waiting for it in 2010, and just updated my 7 year old 2004 Prius to a 2010 Prius V in Jan of 2010. The PiP is a huge disappointment to me, but I don't see a lot else out there either.

 

[TomT]

That is exactly my sentiment. I'm not willing to buy something that is severely compromised just because it is the only thing available, and will wait for an acceptable PHEV CO just as I waited until the Leaf became available to finally buy an acceptable-to-me EV...

More likely I will keep waiting.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I might still buy it,

to be perfectly clear "expensive = not much sense".

 

[DaveEV]

As much as I'd like to replace our other car (2nd gen Prius) with a plug-in, I can't justify the PiP.

What I really want is something the size/efficiency of the Prius V with a plug and at least 15 miles EV range on the EPA test cycle.

The Volt is too small - need to regularly use the rear seats.

The PiP is big enough (basically same as our current Prius), but 11 mi EV range (and on the EPA test the engine kicks in halfway through that) isn't enough for the price premium over a regular Prius.

Either way - I hope that Toyota/GM sells all the plug-ins they can build.

 

[Pipcecil]

My wife just ordered a volt to complement my leaf. She had a good looking at the PiP and really didn't like the low EV range. The cost difference is longer to make up when your EV range is poor (specially compared to the almost entire highway driving she does for her commute). Granted the Volt is small, but we are both small and short people. My wife barely tips at 5 ft. So with our seats adjusted the back seat has plenty of room, although I could easily see someone who is much taller completely compromising the back seat.

 

[evnow]

Granted the Volt is small, but we are both small and short people. My wife barely tips at 5 ft. So with our seats adjusted the back seat has plenty of room, although I could easily see someone who is much taller completely compromising the back seat.

For my wife, it is more the height of the seat, rather than the leg room. It is just too low. Lutz really screwed up by insisting on a "sporty" Volt.

Prius v Plugin would be interesting - but only if it had better EV range. The more I think about it - the more I like Mitsu Outlander PHEV.
- 30 miles EV range
- AWD

For those who want a sedan/hatch - the Fusion Energi may be a good option. 21 Miles of EV range and a very good 45 mpg CS mileage. Given the delays with FFE, I'm really in the "show me" state with Energi now. I mean Panasonic announced just now that they signed a deal with Ford to supply batteries for Energi. Isn't this a little late if Energi is supposed to come out in the fall ?

 

[IBELEAF]

Mitsubishi will have something this year and I am patiently waiting. I would much rather pay $40k for s plugin Mitsubishi CUV which should qualify for full tax credit then for PiP with a silly range and price.

 

[Ready2plugin]

Mitsubishi will have something this year and I am patiently waiting. I would much rather pay $40k for s plugin Mitsubishi CUV which should qualify for full tax credit then for PiP with a silly range and price.

+1.

After seeing the expected price of the Volvo, I'm going to try to steer my wife in the direction of the Mitsubishi Outlander. Hopefully they will release details soon at the Geneva Motor Show.

 

[toasty]

id be happy with 100mile range /w gas engine (like volt). sorry

 

[TomT]

I have to disagree. I really wish that the Leaf had gone a more sporty route as both me and my wife prefer that.

Lutz really screwed up by insisting on a "sporty" Volt.

 

[hill]

I have to disagree. I really wish that the Leaf had gone a more sporty route as both me and my wife prefer that.

Lutz really screwed up by insisting on a "sporty" Volt.

Even Lutz admitted that he screwed up by forcing 'his' ideas of sportiness into the Volt. He lamented that the Volt's range (both EV and CS modes) would have been better, had he not insisted on the giant sized wheels with their added unsprung weight. I'm certain that 'sporty' also included lower profile - which collaterally aids in a smaller air volume to displace, resulting in its lower drag coefficiency.

 

[Herm]

I'm really in the "show me" state with Energi now. I mean Panasonic announced just now that they signed a deal with Ford to supply batteries for Energi. Isn't this a little late if Energi is supposed to come out in the fall ?

Thats a good point..

Has your wife considered sitting on a pillow?

 

[scottf200]

Lutz really screwed up by insisting on a "sporty" Volt.

My experience disagrees.

I get NUMEROUS compliment on the VOLT because of it sporty styling. Especially from the front and rear which makes it look total different than some other eco cars. These folks usefully make follow up comments on how ugly econo boxes look and how they wouldn't buy one partially because of the looks. I'm 200 lbs and about 6' and love the fit of the Volt.

I sat in the Ford Energi at the Chicago Autoshow on media day (it was closed on normal days). That seemed much more cramped and mainly the width of the cabin. Really lowered my chances of getting it as a 2nd plug-in in our household.

 

[astrorob]

i guess my PIP will be here on friday.

as a leaf owner, i sincerely hope we don't find a bunch of PIP priuses clogging up the chargepoints. charging the PIP is optional, for the leaf, obviously not.

i guess in theory you need one of those EV parking stickers to park in most chargepoint spots. does the PIP qualify for that sticker?

 

[greenleaf]

i guess my PIP will be here on friday.

as a leaf owner, i sincerely hope we don't find a bunch of PIP priuses clogging up the chargepoints. charging the PIP is optional, for the leaf, obviously not.

i guess in theory you need one of those EV parking stickers to park in most chargepoint spots. does the PIP qualify for that sticker?

Mine arrived two weeks ago. And I don't use the public chargepoints for the PHV. I only charge it at home.