Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[evnow]

A quick charger would provide a lot of additional cost and mass, Toyota decided. According to Brown, adding a quick charger to the EV—including its additional data-porting capability, additional cooling hardware, and other safeguards—would bring up to 40 kilograms (88 pounds) of additional weight...

The difference between SL & SL-e is definitely not 88 pounds.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ya but lot of difference between Toyota not offering QC which means not upgrading cabling verses Nissan who is who probably installed same cabling for both and only the charging port is added for difference making weight differences much less

 

[edatoakrun]

i questioned the lack of QC on the RAV 4 EV as well, but only guessing that this 2012 model is short term until they can smooth out the tech wrinkles so guessing a major revamp with QC for 2014 or sooner.

keep in mind, that QC wont be available in many areas of the country for years, maybe even a decade. not all of the country is positioned like we are to adapt EVs readily

What do you mean by "we"?

I live in the Shasta County, in the middle of the I-5 non-electric corridor.

But I still think it would be a poor decision to buy a BEV that is not DC capable .

It shouldn't take many years or a decade to put a DC charge network in place, but given the lack of BEV understanding by many "EV" manufactures, utilities, and government agencies, it may.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i questioned the lack of QC on the RAV 4 EV as well, but only guessing that this 2012 model is short term until they can smooth out the tech wrinkles so guessing a major revamp with QC for 2014 or sooner.

keep in mind, that QC wont be available in many areas of the country for years, maybe even a decade. not all of the country is positioned like we are to adapt EVs readily

What do you mean by "we"?

I live in the Shasta County, in the middle of the I-5 non-electric corridor.

But I still think it would be pretty dumb not to buy a BEV that is not DC capable .

It shouldn't take many years or a decade to put a DC charge network in place, but given the lack of BEV understanding by many "EV" manufactures, utilities, and government agencies, it may.

maybe not a decade. "We" as in me, will have it mostly in place by the end of this year. however, for the Heartland, i am betting AT LEAST 5 years.

the main stream Prius has been out 7 years now and most of the Heartland has not even adopted it, so a limited range EV will have a tough road to drive

 

[edatoakrun]

...the main stream Prius has been out 7 years now and most of the Heartland has not even adopted it, so a limited range EV will have a tough road to drive

Well, I never adopted the Prius, or any other hybrid.

Hybrids just never passed the cost/benefit financial or environmental analysis for me, or many other car buyers.

The BEV LEAF does, for me today. Even more so when and if the DC infrastructure is there to take it out on I-5.

I believe though, that limited range is now the most significant factor preventing widespread BEV adoption by American drivers. And that the most likely way this objection could be overcome, is by a DC charge network, rather than dramatic battery improvement or battery swap stations.

 

[AndyH]

...the main stream Prius has been out 7 years now and most of the Heartland has not even adopted it, so a limited range EV will have a tough road to drive

Well, I never adopted the Prius, or any other hybrid.

Hybrids just never passed the cost/benefit financial or environmental analysis for me, or many other car buyers.

The BEV LEAF does, for me today. Even more so when and if the DC infrastructure is there to take it out on I-5.

I believe though, that limited range is now the most significant factor preventing widespread BEV adoption by American drivers. And that the most likely way this objection could be overcome, is by a DC charge network, rather than dramatic battery improvement or battery swap stations.

No disrespect as I do understand your point about range. But it seems to me that we're really not discussing or evaluating the true utility of the Leaf, but rather the lack of awareness and/or understanding of those in the heartland.

The facts about average driving range - like gravity - work whether one understands or agrees or not. And that still means that today's Leaf - with no L3/QC/DC charge port, and zero EVSE infrastructure, is still sufficient for 90% of Americans.

Based on that, I cannot agree that infrastructure is the limiting factor for EV deployment.

 

[edatoakrun]

And that still means that today's Leaf - with no L3/QC/DC charge port, and zero EVSE infrastructure, is still sufficient for 90% of Americans.

Based on that, I cannot agree that infrastructure is the limiting factor for EV deployment.

The Leaf without DC has sufficient range for 90% of buyers, but only 90-99% of the time.

Needing to own or rent another car for longer trips is a significant barrier to the BEV purchase decision for many buyers. It's true that DC is not a complete solution, as it still will not make the LEAF a very long distance choice. But for many buyers, it will upgrade the LEAF from a 90% of the time (0 to 80 mile trip) option, to a 99% (0 to a few hundred mile) one.

 

[evnow]

Needing to own or rent another car for longer trips is a significant barrier to the BEV purchase decision for many buyers.

But 60% of Americans already have 2 or more cars. All they need to do is to take the ICE car on longer trips. % of days on which both cars are driven more than, say, 70 miles is very small for those 60% of families.

 

[edatoakrun]

Needing to own or rent another car for longer trips is a significant barrier to the BEV purchase decision for many buyers.

But 60% of Americans already have 2 or more cars. All they need to do is to take the ICE car on longer trips. % of days on which both cars are driven more than, say, 70 miles is very small for those 60% of families.

Don't you think that many of these "2 car families" might prefer to be "2 BEV families", given DC charging availability?

This has gotten off topic, obviously.

 

[evnow]

Don't you think that many of these "2 car families" might prefer to be "2 BEV families", given DC charging availability?

Personally, I want to have one BEV and one PHEV. DC charging isn't a viable regular long drive option yet. We would need larger batteries and a little shoter charging times (say 2 hour freeway driving and 15 minutes of charging).

 

[TRONZ]

I would suspect that Toyota is dragging it's feet on pure EV's until battery chemistry gels a bit more. They are big enough that if they wager on the wrong chemistry they will be in very big trouble on a huge scale. Combine that with the fact that they seem to making money selling ICE cars and the hybrid is clearly more of a stop-gap measure (excuse) for them. The status quo is profitable for now. But as Nissan continues to pull away from Toyota in battery Kwh sold and green "image" they will have to get off the fence or be left far behind. Nissan will already own the the EV market for the next two years... AND I would bet much longer than that!

 

[evnow]

Toyota is actually in some sort of free fall. They are the only major automaker with decreasing sales in the last few months. They can continue to assume they are doing just fine or wake up.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

Rav 4 was down 37% in Mar '11 compared to Mar '10. Camry was down 13%.

Toyota as a whole was down 5% when all others had double digit growths.

Nissan OTOH is doing very well. Altima became the largest selling sedan in the US for the first time ever. Nissan now outsells Honda in Japan. It is also within 2,000 cars of getting to Top 5 in the US. may be the large number of Leaf deliveries this month will do that !

 

[TRONZ]

I knew Nissan and Subaru were doing very well but have not been paying much attention to Toyota. Maybe that's the problem. They are turning into an Asian GM and people just don't care for them or that kind of company.

 

[davewill]

I knew Nissan and Subaru were doing very well but have not been paying much attention to Toyota. Maybe that's the problem. They are turning into an Asian GM and people just don't care for them or that kind of company.

I think it's all fallout from the stuck throttle debacle. People really got the message that Toyota ignored a flaw, and many won't consider them right now.

 

[Herm]

I think $500/kwh for large formats would be a good assumption. So, the Volt battery costs some $8K and Leaf's $13K.

A GM manager officially admitted the battery for the Volt is $10k, that also includes packaging and cooling.

 

[evnow]

A GM manager officially admitted the battery for the Volt is $10k, that also includes packaging and cooling.

The LG Chem CEO had talked about $8K. Anyway, as I said roughly $500/kwh - $10K would make it about $600/kwh.

 

[evnow]

http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=187

Below $30,000 should be the target; and if Toyota adopted a battery leasing model, they might be able to get into that ballpark.
...
Toyota initially may choose to offer the car only in warm weather zones until battery energy densities improve, or they opt to go the Volvo route.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Couple of pics of the Tesla modified Toyota RAV4 EV at a Fashion Island (Newport Beach, CA) Chargepoint.

Its funny because I was walking up to my Leaf and I was like, how rude, an SUV parked in an EV space.. and then I saw "ELECTRIC TOYOTA" on the side.. Anyway, of course my wife said "Why didn't you wait for that one?"

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Anyway, of course my wife said "Why didn't you wait for that one?"

i have $50,000+ reasons why

 

[bdgotoh]

So is the charge port on the left by the driver's door like the Volt?