Optima yellow top or antigravity 30amp? Something else?

[Bombastinator2]

So I want a “set it and forget it” battery. They seem expensive though.
The optima yellowtop D51r is a high end lead-acid, costing a bit under $300. The other is an antigravity 30amp AG-51R-30-rs, costing a bit under a grand. Plus whatever a trickle charger fo LiFepo4 costs. Both charge off the alternator. An antigravity will outlast 4 yellowtops which makes it a better deal IF the car lasts long enough to use up 3 yellowtops. I’m not sure it will. Which do I get? Or do I want something even lower end and cheaper?

 

[Stanton]

If you're going to spend $300 and you want a "set it and forget it" battery...then go Lithium (and forget the trickle charger).
There are plenty of threads on it (search for my name) and they are almost half the price of the one I put in my Leaf...over 10 years ago (that wasn't a typo)!

 

[Bombastinator2]

If you're going to spend $300 and you want a "set it and forget it" battery...then go Lithium (and forget the trickle charger).
There are plenty of threads on it (search for my name) and they are almost half the price of the one I put in my Leaf...over 10 years ago (that wasn't a typo)!

Ok. The one I found was a grand. I take it I can get one for a lot less then? The problem seems to be that the average liFePo4 requires a special charger and WONT charge on the alternator whereas that one will. If I could spend less I would. I was unable to find a viable alternative.

 

[knightmb]

You are looking at batteries that are 200 AH or more for that price. Way overkill for the Leaf. I've had my 20 AH Lithium for +9 Years now. Depending on how you will use it, 20AH seems to be the "acceptable" minimum for the Leaf if you don't plan on trying to use it to power a beach party. If you just need it to turn the Leaf on and off in all weather conditions down to 0 F (-17 C), then LiFePO4 is the way to go. I only say down to 0F because that is the lowest I've been about to test mine in for real world conditions, the batteries technically can go even lower and still function just fine.

The problem both Stanton and I face is that if you asked us what brand to buy, there are so many, it's hard to say exactly. Some work great (like the ones we both got), but others are unknown about how good they will be.

I do agree though, for "set it and forget it", LiFePO4 is the way if you plan on keeping your Leaf for a long time like we have. Price ranges for 20 AH LiFePO4 vary from $60 to $80, so buyer beware the cheap ones if long life is what you want. For reference, the 20 AH I bought back in 2015 cost $238

Any 12V LiFePO4 that you select; make sure it covers these basics then.

• Over-charge protection that doesn't "cut-off" the voltage. It's been reported here that some LiFePO4 do this and makes the Leaf think the battery is "dead" causing issues.
• Over-discharge protection, just in case, so you get long life from your LiFePO4 battery. It sucks in the sense that it just cuts the voltage, which is like unplugging it in the Leaf. It doesn't hurt the Leaf, but it can be annoying to have to clear phantom DTC codes because of the sudden drop off if you were to run accessories too long this way.
• Balancing circuits inside. A lot of cheap ones don't bother, but the one I bought did have this feature and it has enjoyed a long life in service.
• Discharge and recharge regulation protection. Protects against short-circuit or way too much charging current if you have a small battery like I do. Mine came with this protection as it is limited to 30 amps both ways (discharge or recharge), but that's more than enough to start a Leaf and more than enough input current to charge it up in a short amount of time even if the Leaf can technically send 100's of amps into it.

 

[mrlithium]

I cant believe 12V battery discussions are still narrowly focused on lithium. That debate is over. SODIUM ion batteries are the new power kid on the block. More advantages than LiFepo4.
Check out Lithiummoto for more info, and no, neither Amazon or AntiG has them.
price you ask ? .. A group 51R case can hold 20Ah, 30Ah or 36Ah of Sodium.
example -30Ah for $300

 

[aqn]

Caveat emptor. Personally, i wouldn't just go buy any random 12V Li battery. I found out the hard way that a 12V Li battery is not just a 12V battery. I've tried twice (I'm a slow learner ) and both times the car was very unhappy with the battery and refuses to start. E.g. one was an EarthX ETX18F.

I'd research and get the exact brand and model other people say they have had for a while (not what they heard their friend's cousin has, or what they're thinking of getting).

(And right on cue, since I went to look at the EarthX website, Ms Googlelina decides that I need to see battery ads! :

)

 

[css28]

The flooded lead acid battery that came with the car lasted 7 years and hasn’t died yet.
I decided to upgrade to an AGM battery from NAPA.
No way am I spending more than $300 for a 12V battery.

 

[mrlithium]

NAPA The Legend Premium Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) Battery 36 Months Free Replacement BCI No. 51R 500 CCA​

Part #:BAT 9851RT
Line:NAPA Batteries

Unit Price
$254.99
Hmmm, So, you paid $255 + say, 7.5% tax = $274, $25 shy of $300, and you'll get 7+ years out of any battery you buy. Congratulations; you're in the top 1% of all battery buyers.

 

[Stanton]

The flooded lead acid battery that came with the car lasted 7 years and hasn’t died yet.

That might work in Michigan, but not in the South/Southwest. I never had a lead-acid battery last more than 3 years in Texas (and have even had them give out in <2 years).

 

[cornbinder89]

I routinely see 7 years or more out of a FLA, some in much more demanding service than the Leaf's sees. As far as heat, mine were across the frame, right behind a hard working large bore diesel. Try pulling a grade at 45 min wide open and speed of 25 mph for under hood temp! It would get so hot the shifter on the doghouse would be too hot to put your hand on for any amount of time.
I don't know what others are doing to kill them, but my FLA last, can handle severe cold (with some reduction in cap) and heat without problems. Check the water every few months and keep the terminals clean. -25F to -35 F and no worries about damage, try that with Lithium.

 

[knightmb]

I don't know what others are doing to kill them, but my FLA last, can handle severe cold (with some reduction in cap) and heat without problems. Check the water every few months and keep the terminals clean. -25F to -35 F and no worries about damage, try that with Lithium.

I would suspect the usual issue of the FLA not being kept at full charge all the time. Even in temperature extremes of hot or cold, a fully charged FLA is what the technology was designed for. I wouldn't see a Lithium cold-cracking a car engine at -35F, but to start a Leaf, no problem.

Not to derail this topic, but I have gotten in my possession an old 12V LiFePO4 from a friend who bought it back in 2016, same brand as mine, except they used it for a generator. The generator self-destructed or something, not sure how, but it's dead. I got the battery and it's identical to what I use in my Leaf (20 AH), but I haven't tested capacity or anything yet. If it still works, I'm going to start a new topic about some extreme cold test to see what happens when the battery is at various temperatures like 0F, -10F, -20F, all the way to the limit of -40F.

 

[css28]

NAPA The Legend Premium Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) Battery 36 Months Free Replacement BCI No. 51R 500 CCA​

Part #:BAT 9851RT
Line:NAPA Batteries

Unit Price
$254.99
Hmmm, So, you paid $255 + say, 7.5% tax = $274, $25 shy of $300, and you'll get 7+ years out of any battery you buy. Congratulations; you're in the top 1% of all battery buyers.

I got 20% off on a Spring promotion and $18 back on the core.

 

[css28]

That might work in Michigan, but not in the South/Southwest. I never had a lead-acid battery last more than 3 years in Texas (and have even had them give out in <2 years).

Does this apply for an EV with milder "engine compartment" temperatures? Seems strange.

 

[mrlithium]

you dont " get back $18 on the core.... unless you PAID an extra $18 at the time of sale by not turning in a core at the time of sale.
2nd, Its not 20% its $20.
It Pays to Shop at NAPA

Get more power with The NAPA Legend Premium Battery and receive a prepaid Visa® Gift Card worth $20 by mail
jeeez
obviously a NAPA promoter

 

[css28]

you dont " get back $18 on the core.... unless you PAID an extra $18 at the time of sale by not turning in a core at the time of sale.
2nd, Its not 20% its $20.
It Pays to Shop at NAPA

Get more power with The NAPA Legend Premium Battery and receive a prepaid Visa® Gift Card worth $20 by mail
jeeez
obviously a NAPA promoter

At the time (in April) the 20% discount got me $51.00 off. You're right about the core; it was $18 on top of the price listed. With a $5.00 NAPA Rewards discount added to the above, I ended up $230.31 net.
Sheesh.

 

[Stanton]

Does this apply for an EV with milder "engine compartment" temperatures? Seems strange.

While true that EVs generate less heat in the engine compartment, even lead-acid batteries suffer from the prolonged affects of heat (where it rarely gets below 80 degrees even at night in the summer). The real killer for lead-acid vs Lithium is: lead-acid doesn't handle discharge below 50% well where Lithium will bounce back even below 10% (not that I recommend it).

 

[css28]

While true that EVs generate less heat in the engine compartment, even lead-acid batteries suffer from the prolonged affects of heat (where it rarely gets below 80 degrees even at night in the summer). The real killer for lead-acid vs Lithium is: lead-acid doesn't handle discharge below 50% well where Lithium will bounce back even below 10% (not that I recommend it).

I would have thought that Lithium batteries would be even less tolerant of high temperatures than lead-acid.
I also don't want to have to worry if I find myself in sub-zero F temperatures. This doesn't happen often anymore in this area, but it's not out of the question.