PG&E Schedule 9 in Northern CA

[trentr]

Hello,

I wanted to ask the forum before calling PG&E. Is anyone familiar with PG&E's Schedule 9 Time of Use program? I'm trying to decide if I should go with Rate A or B. Currently, my whole house usage rarely goes to tier 2 in a month. So, my rates are mostly $.11 Kwh. As I understand it, if I select Rate A, my whole house rates will be affected depending on time of day. However, if i select Rate B, I will get a separate meter just for the LEAF and my whole house rates will be the same as of now. Is this how E9 works? Who will install the second meter? How much is the cost to install the second meter and is it dedicated only for the EVSE/Charger or whatever it is called?

http://www.newrules.org/environment/rules/plugin-electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-charging-rates

Thanks,
trent

 

[palmermd]

I charge my EV on the regular E1 rate schedule. It did not make sense for me to add a second meter to get the time of use. I was going to have to pay to have the meter installed in my home and all the associated electrical work including PG&E's work. I work at home and don't drive much so the car does not require much refueling compared to somebody who leaves home every day. It also did not make sense to put the whole house on E9 because I work from home and I'd be paying triple the rate to keep the house lighted and cooled during the day when I am at home working.

You need to evaluate your own situation, but if you are going to a time of use rate like the E9 then it's probably best to have a separate meter for the car charger. It looks like the E9 may have changed since I last looked at it. They have separate rates for whole house and second meter. That might be to pay for the electrical installation which would make sense to do instead of having to pay it all out front like I was quoted years ago.

Hope this helps with the decision process.

 

[planet4ever]

I don't know about installation costs, but be sure not to overlook the meter charge. It's not a lot, but it adds up. Obviously if you have two meters you will have to pay an extra meter charge every month.

If you have looked at the E9-A (whole house) schedule you will have noticed that unlike other PG&E schedules there is no jump in cost per kWh between tier 1 and tier 2. So if charging the LEAF doesn't push you past tier 2 there is no reason to go to the separate meter.

What you need to do is keep track of how many miles you drive each month between now and when you have to make the decision. (Or, more specifically, how many of those miles you would have driven the LEAF). I would divide the number of miles each month by four, and separately by five, to get an estimated range of kWh required that month. (e.g.. if you drove 1000 miles, you would have used 200-250kWh.) Check that against your PG&E bill to see how often - and how far - it would push you into tier 3. Remember you only pay tier 3 rates on the margin, not the whole amount.

For people who are already at the top of tier 2 or higher, I suggest looking into a small roof-top solar system if you have some place to put it. Small ones are not terribly costly, and a little bit of help can push you down into a lower tier. Besides, with E9 being a time-of-day schedule, the solar panels end up reducing your electric usage during the most expensive time of day. I personally have a larger solar system, and actually sell PG&E my electricity during the day at 20-30 cents/kWh then buy it back from them at night for less than half the price. What a deal!

 

[EVDRIVER]

Ilooked at this sort of thing and it did not make sense to do u less you were far above baseline. The best option is solar as you get a time of use meter and the benefits of solar, this is what I ended up doing.

 

[garygid]

When I looked at SDG&E's rates a couple of years ago, it was confusing.

The residential charge for the "electricity" used seemed to be essentially constant (around 10 cents), with the "distribution" varying wildly (3 to 23 cents).

Then, it appears in my PV power production that they only give over-production credit for the "electricity" part, not the distrubution part. But, they book-keep both a dollar figure and a kWh figure throughout the year, and it was not clear how they used those figures.

I did get billed monthly for the $5 (approx.) minimum, and for two air-conditioning months that I used more than I generated.

But, the available rate schedules and their details are changing, it seems.

 

[scottsim]

My solar array went in around 30 months ago...If I am not mistaken (the bills are still a mystery) my rate (PG&E) was frozen at Rate 7, I am thinking that I am lucky though not sure if this is set-in-stone.

Scott

 

[planet4ever]

Yes, I've heard others say E7 was the best deal. By "frozen" I trust you mean you think you can stay in it even though it is closed to anyone new. I have E6, myself. But if you can believe the PG&E rate documents, E9 "is required for customers with a BEV or PHEV."

I'm not sure whether that means you are breaking a law if you stay on some other schedule, but I expect it will be pretty easy for them to catch you. How hard would it be for their computers to kick out a report on anyone who's nighttime use suddenly jumps by 5 to 20 kWh per night? Assuming, of course that you are on some time-of-use schedule. If you're not, you're probably a fool.

My guess is they won't try to prosecute you for cheating, but they might send you a letter asking for justification to stay on the schedule you have, and if you ignore them, they would probably go ahead and switch you. I'm sure they would take any chance they had to switch you if you were on E7!

 

[Turbo3]

I have PG&E Rate E-7 and I expect to keep it even with the BEV Leaf. Here is why straight from th PG&E E-9 traiff book.

It says in the first sentence "This experimental schedule applies to electric service to customers for whom
Schedule E-1 applies and who have a currently registered Motor Vehicle, as defined by
the California Motor Vehicle Code,...This schedule is required for customers with a BEV
or PHEV..."

Note that you must currently be on rate E-1 AND have a BEV or PHEV to be forced on to E-9. Since I am in E-7 which is already a TOU rate I do not need to change. Same would be true for anyone on E-6.

Here is the link to the E-9 tariff rate.

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf

I find it strange that niether Nissan nor the Assessment guy said anything about installing a separate meter so your whole house does not go to E-9 from E-1. Now that would justify the $1200 install price I have seen.

After reading some of the comments above I thought I would be forced to change. After reading the actual E-9 tariff I see there is no need.

 

[DeaneG]

Interesting catch on the "mandatory" E9 rate.

For new solar installations (e.g. me), E9 has much lower off-peak rates than E6 off-peak rates, almost by half. Peak and part-peak rates are not too different. Depending on your energy use pattern, it could be that E9 with solar is cheaper than E6 with solar.

This thread should be moved into the "PG&E" utility section.

 

[mxp]

Hello,

I wanted to ask the forum before calling PG&E. Is anyone familiar with PG&E's Schedule 9 Time of Use program? I'm trying to decide if I should go with Rate A or B. Currently, my whole house usage rarely goes to tier 2 in a month. So, my rates are mostly $.11 Kwh. As I understand it, if I select Rate A, my whole house rates will be affected depending on time of day. However, if i select Rate B, I will get a separate meter just for the LEAF and my whole house rates will be the same as of now. Is this how E9 works? Who will install the second meter? How much is the cost to install the second meter and is it dedicated only for the EVSE/Charger or whatever it is called?

http://www.newrules.org/environment/rules/plugin-electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-charging-rates

Thanks,
trent

I was in a similar situation debating how best to do this.

See this: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=594&p=9365#p9365

Having 2 meters is probably the way to go assuming you will use your Leaf a lot and there is no other options for opportunity charging or have free charging stations nearby your home.

 

[hill]

For what they charge for a meter install, and monthly fees, they really have you, either way. There's no free ride, from the utility company - they will make money off you.

 

[planet4ever]

For some people E-9A makes more sense, for others E-9B. You really need to look at your own use of electricity and make estimates both ways. Do you use AC a lot? Weekday afternoons, or just evening and weekends? Do you have, or plan to get, solar panels? Any electric space heaters you use in the winter? Are your refrigerator and freezer modern low energy versions? How and when do you dry clothes? If feasible, read your meter for a few days at or near the breakpoints (7AM, 2PM, 9PM, and midnight on weekdays). Then you will have some real numbers you can plug in. Don't worry about weekends; they tend to vary a lot, account for fewer of the days, and don't have any peak hours.

One thing to note is that E-9 (A or B) has no jump in rates for tier 2. So if you are currently in tier 1 most of the time it will give you an extra 30% of baseline before it starts docking you for usage. Depending on where you live, that might only amount to 4kWh per day or less, and you will probably use quite a bit more than that for your Leaf, but for E-9A it can keep more of your whole house usage at the lowest rate. Remember that we are talking about marginal rates, here. Just because you get pushed up into tier 3 doesn't mean you will pay tier 3 prices for all your electricity, only for the excess over what you were allowed under tier 2. But you do need to think of your Leaf charging as all being at the margin.