Plain Leaf vs Modded Leaf vs No Leaf

[IssacZachary]

I LOVE my Leaf. It always starts, even at -36°F. Heat comes out almost instantly since there's no engine to warm up, and I don't have to worry about anti-idling laws or carbon-monoxide poisoning. I don't have big billowing black clouds of smoke come out of the tail pipe like in my 1985 diesel. 90% of my driving is short distance several times a day meaning my ICE vehicle sometimes never warmed up, which isn't a problem in an EV. But I also realize the limited range becomes a bit of a pain every once in a while when I need to go farther. Here are my circumstances:

• According to PlugShare, lots of places around here don't have any place where I could plug in and charge.
• The distances between places that I can charge from are a bit far and few between.
• Lots of mountains. (e.g. it's only 60 miles to Salida, but I have to climb over 4,000ft to get there.
• Cold winters.
• I don't mind taking some time to get places. Yes, the quicker the better. But, if there were level 2 charging along the way that would be sufficient. I just don't want to have to charge off of level 1 except for emergencies.
• A few possible destinations (not every one every year) would be:
  • Grand Junction
  • Delta
  • Crawford
  • Ouray
  • Rifle
  • Glenwood Springs
  • Leadville
  • Denver
  • Colorado Springs
  • Salida
  • Montrose
• I need to do a trip usually about once or twice every other month, which are usually just a day long, but can take up to 5 days, so about 12 days out of the year I'll be out of town.

If I keep my Leaf as it is I can:

• Rent a car for out of town trips ($40 per day).
• Take the bus ($35 one way). But only if I'm going east towards Denver since there are none that go north, south or west.
• Try it in the Leaf. Drive extremely slow, be prepared to ask someone if they'd let me charge from their home, take along a 240V EVSE that can plug in to a 240V outlet, maybe run an ad in the paper to see if anyone has a 240V outlet along the way, etc.

Or I could do some modding:

• Aerodynamics. Some quick research and calculations suggest that $400 worth of aerodynamic mods could possibly increase range by 35% although the Leaf would have a long "airplain" tail making parking a bit difficult.
• If I hit it right on eBay I could get some Brusa chargers and double the charging capabilities of the Leaf (heading east there's a 70A Level 2 charging station 60 miles away.)
• If I could get one cheap enough, a battery either in the trunk or on a trailer would help. But I wouldn't want to pay a premium price for one.
• A generator or pusher trailer could give me infinite range, so to speak. A small EFI propane engine with a catalytic converter probably won't get modern car emissions, but would be close. Said trailer could possibly be made for under $3,000.
• Port around a generator to pull over and plug into, possibly in a basket behind the Leaf. A used 240V generator that is known to work could cost $2,000.

Of course the other alternative would be to own another car. I do own two other cars at the moment still (a 1985 VW diesel with almost 500,000 miles on it and a mostly restored 1972 VW Beetle). However, if I did sell the two VW's so as to buy a newer car I would not keep the Leaf. The options would be:

• Keep the Leaf and the VW diesel. The diesel gets about 60mpg on the highways. However, it has a lot of miles and needs a lot of work. Also deleting it from my insurance would knock off about $40 per month or about $500 per year, about the same as I would be paying if I rented for those occasions.
• Keep the Leaf and the 1972 Beetle. The Beetle is mostly restored and has a new engine. I could get it set up as a classic/collector's vehicle, which would cost less to register and to insure. But if I sold it I could possibly get as much as $5,000 for it, enough to fund occasional renting for 10 years or for making a pusher trailer or for buying a new 240V name brand inverter generator.
• Or trade in all three, including the Leaf, for another car. I just don't see the practicality of paying full coverage and high taxes on two cars when I only need one car.

So I guess I'm asking you as other Leaf and EV owners to put on your thinking caps and help me decide what's the best course of action. Renting would seem the cheapest and easiest for short term and then keep only the Leaf. But there's also that feeling of "wouldn't it be neat to take the Leaf instead." Towing around a pusher trailer might not be the best on emissions or safety, but neither is driving around one of my other two cars. A generator in a basket wouldn't be the greatest on emissions either. But it would end up being an emergency-only device only being used if I didn't make it to the next charging station or campground. Or since I need to rent or modify my Leaf to make it practical for every occasion then does that mean the Leaf is not for me?

As it is right now I think that for me a used 200lb 240V Yamaha EF6300isde generator in a basket behind the Leaf would be the best option, but I'm still undecided. If I did that and sold the other two cars then with the left over money I could also upgrade the chargers so that I could charge off of up to a 70A J1772 or off of two 40A or 30A J1772 chargers, which would be up to 13.2kW worth of charging. Then I would eventually add on some aerodynamic mods and hopefully increase my range that way too. The idea of a pusher trailer still attracts me and so does using my 1972 VW Beetle as a second vehicle. Decisions, decisions...

 

[kurros]

I'm looking forward to see other responses, but for your hypothetical really long trips don't forget about RV parks and campgrounds--you can adapt an L2 EVSE to use the NEMA 14-50 outlets.

 

[IssacZachary]

I'm looking forward to see other responses, but for your hypothetical really long trips don't forget about RV parks and campgrounds--you can adapt an L2 EVSE to use the NEMA 14-50 outlets.

Thanks! And yes, I plan on doing that. For an example from here to Denver, after charging in Salida I can charge in Cañon City at an RV camp then make it to Pueblo and have CHAdeMO chargers from there on.

The down side is that here in Colorado some of these camping and RV sites may be open less then 6 months a year or charge ridiculous fees. But that's where negotiation comes in.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Given all your concerns and apparent preferences, and given that the longer trips would be regular but not frequent (?) I guess that a small 4-stroke generator set up for 240 volts, carried on a rear basket, might be the answer. I know that people had a lot of trouble initially trying to get L-2 charging from a portable gen, but I think that it was resolved with a resistor mod. Others can confirm that. I personally have had good luck with the "Champion" Chinese Honda clone 3500 watt gen, for home use (not Leaf charging). They go for about $300 new. Be prepared to add your own fuel filter, and maybe replace the fuel line and carry a spare petcock, but they are quiet, reliable, low emission, and great on gas.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

i try to only charge at home because I don't want to have to bother with;
1. other people
2. non functioning charging station

I rent a car when I need to travel further. I usually go to Budget, I'm lucky as they have one about a block from my work and I usually only pay about $30 for day, plus gas.

 

[IssacZachary]

Given all your concerns and apparent preferences, and given that the longer trips would be regular but not frequent (?) I guess that a small 4-stroke generator set up for 240 volts, carried on a rear basket, might be the answer. I know that people had a lot of trouble initially trying to get L-2 charging from a portable gen, but I think that it was resolved with a resistor mod. Others can confirm that. I personally have had good luck with the "Champion" Chinese Honda clone 3500 watt gen, for home use (not Leaf charging). They go for about $300 new. Be prepared to add your own fuel filter, and maybe replace the fuel line and carry a spare petcock, but they are quiet, reliable, low emission, and great on gas.

Thanks! I've seen and understood how the resistor mod works. The one thing that is unknown is how well the Leaf will charge if the sine wave isn't pure. It seems everyone that has had success using a generator has always opted for a pure sine wave generator. The only person I know that has tried and got some charging from a normal generator is Vitaminj and he could only get it to charge at about 1.5kW maximum.

Reference: Trailer batteries or gensets for Leaf? page 17

I guess it's worth investigating since it could cut the cost of the generator by about 80%.

On the other hand, talking about Honda generators and emissions, I've found a catalytic converter that will fit a small honda engine. I'm not sure what modifications would have to be made to the generator's case though:

BlueCAT Catalytic Converter

 

[GerryAZ]

Do not expect to improve the aerodynamics of the LEAF enough to make much difference. You are at higher altitude so aerodynamic drag is a lower proportion of total drag than for those of us at lower elevations. Any generator of sufficient capacity should charge a LEAF with a resistor between neutral and ground to satisfy the EVSE. The LEAF onboard charger ramps up its input current quickly so the generator needs to have sufficient overload capacity and quick response governor/voltage regulator to successfully charge. Inverter generators are nice because the frequency and voltage do not vary, but conventional generators actually provide a clean sine wave under steady state running. Both frequency and voltage drop when a sudden load is applied and increase when load is dropped so the generator just needs to have sufficient capacity to keep voltage and frequency within tolerance for the LEAF. Any good generator should be OK because the onboard charger will handle a wide voltage range and frequency between 50 Hz and 60 Hz.

Don't sell the Beetle without being absolutely certain that you will not regret the sale later. Consider a Volt if you decide the LEAF will not meet your long-term needs.

Gerry

 

[jjeff]

The LEAF onboard charger ramps up its input current quickly so the generator needs to have sufficient overload capacity and quick response governor/voltage regulator to successfully charge...

Then if this is a problem I'd strongly suggest something like Open EVSE or a Juicebox where you can gradually ramp up the charging current(on both 120 and 240v). I believe the minimum start charge current is 6a but from then and up my Juicebox allows easy 1a increments and I believe Open EVSE allows 2a increments. Something like a EVSEupgrade wouldn't really work like that as you must set the maximum output current before plugging the EVSE in. Of the EVSEs that allow output current to be limited most don't allow you to adjust the output current on the fly.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you wanted to test a non sine wave generator, what about a load that could be switched on before the EVSE is plugged in, then switched off? That Champion has a surge output of 4000 watts, so a 750 watt or so load might work to "preload" it, as long as it was switched off immediately after charging starts. You could also try using a 20 amp EVSE, also with a pre-load. You might find yourself trading longer charging times (at 2kw) for a smaller gen...

 

[IssacZachary]

The good news is that I haven't purchased a portable level 2 EVSE yet. So if I get a non-inverter generator I'll be sure I'll get one like the Open EVSE.

I'm not sure how well the preload idea would work. You'd have to have an awfully fast switch. It could work though. I'd just have to carry around a hair dryer as well. My wife has one that can be switched to 240V.

Here's some more food for thought. Besides comparing costs, efficiency, time, effort, emissions, and noise, what about usability? I mean for what other things could it be used for?

A generator might come in handy if there's a power outage. But in this modern age how often do we get power outages? Still, if the power went out in the middle of the winter at -40°F/-40°C there would be some nasty consequences like frozen and broken pipes.

A pusher trailer wouldn't be of any other use unless it was both a pusher trailer and a cargo trailer. Not a bad idea IMO, especially when the in-laws come to visit.

Another pusher idea would be a motorcycle with the front wheel off the ground and connected to a tow hitch on the Leaf. I'm just not sure I need a motorcycle.

A battery trailer could double a an energy storage for if I had solar panels on the roof of my home.

 

[LeftieBiker]

In terms of price, size, weight and double utility, a smaller generator seems to be the best bet. As for that pre-load, why would it have to be a 240 volt appliance? Just plug in a 120 volt ~750 watt appliance like a small heater with a switch, and then start first the gen, then the pre-load, then the EVSE, then turn off the pre-load. The idea is to use a pre-load that's small enough to run with the EVSE for a few seconds or longer. The Champion has two 120 volt outlets and one 240 volt.

 

[plmprop]

Having two vehicles can come in handy (like when one of the cars is in for repairs)... Full insurance coverage is not necessary in most states and given the HUGE depreciation on most Leafs nowadays, I would drop insurance coverage on that sucker to bare bones coverage within a year or two of being new. You can buy a used 2013 Leaf with low mileage right now for around $7,500.00 and the insurance company isn't going to give you THAT much EVEN if you total it in a crash. There's no sense in getting comprehensive and collision insurance on a disposable car and that's basically what the Leaf has become after you've owned it for a year.

I'd reduce insurance coverage on the Leaf and keep two cars. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Durandal]

Battery trailer is on my to-do list this summer, assuming my Tesla stock does well enough for me to sell a few shares and make a decent profit. My goal is to actually make a solar and battery trailer, with panels that pop up and extend when parked, but still have 2-3 panels exposed when in motion to allow for a smaller amount of charging while going down the road. It would still require a L2 EVSE and pure sinewave inverter, to simply charge when stopped, but that would work for some of my longer range needs where it's a back/forth drive to a location without charging ability. I'm eying to use Tesla batteries for this. It would be a prototype, then I would hopefully build them as portable "green" generators for emergency sites, music festivals, etc.

 

[IssacZachary]

In terms of price, size, weight and double utility, a smaller generator seems to be the best bet. As for that pre-load, why would it have to be a 240 volt appliance? Just plug in a 120 volt ~750 watt appliance like a small heater with a switch, and then start first the gen, then the pre-load, then the EVSE, then turn off the pre-load. The idea is to use a pre-load that's small enough to run with the EVSE for a few seconds or longer. The Champion has two 120 volt outlets and one 240 volt.

Thanks! Now I get what you were saying about pre-loading. As for the generator size I think I'd feel a bit better with one that's bigger, closer to 6.6kW. I've been looking out for a used Yamaha EF6300isde, which is has a 5.5kW continuous rating, the same as the Honda EU7000is only the Yamaha weighs 70lbs lighter.

Having two vehicles can come in handy (like when one of the cars is in for repairs)... Full insurance coverage is not necessary in most states and given the HUGE depreciation on most Leafs nowadays, I would drop insurance coverage on that sucker to bare bones coverage within a year or two of being new. You can buy a used 2013 Leaf with low mileage right now for around $7,500.00 and the insurance company isn't going to give you THAT much EVEN if you total it in a crash. There's no sense in getting comprehensive and collision insurance on a disposable car and that's basically what the Leaf has become after you've owned it for a year.

I'd reduce insurance coverage on the Leaf and keep two cars. Just my 2 cents...

Thanks for the advice! Yes, I do plan on dropping my full coverage as soon as I get my Leaf paid off hopefully sometime this year. I can see the advantages of having two cars, but also the disadvantages. Two cars to maintain, two cars to keep registered and insured, two cars that depreciate in value. The nice thing about my Beetle, for an example, is that it won't depreciate in value anymore, unless I let it rust out or if it gets in a wreck. Actually it is likely to increase in value the more I keep it and restore it. But then again it still might be cheaper in the long run just to rent.

However, regardless of whether I buy a newer car that won't need many repairs or keep one of my used ones both the math and my experience tell me that it costs at least $2,000 per year average to keep the care insured, maintained, repaired and plated. That's the equivalent of 50 or more days of car rentals per year. The insurance alone equates to 12 days of car rentals per year. And I also live in an area where repairs are expensive. The last two alignments I had done (same car, but 5 years apart) were over $300 each. I can and love to do my own mechanic work, but then I just don't have the time or place to do it. I've been rebuilding my Beetle for the past 5 years and finally got the engine into it last fall just before it got buried in snow. I didn't even have the chance to get the fuel lines connected in order to start it and break it in. I'm still waiting for the snow to melt to get to it. I've been in situations where one car breaks, so I start driving the other and then it breaks and then I have two cars to repair.

I do like the idea of keeping the ol' Beetle as backup and as a weekend cruiser. The Leaf and Beetle or the Leaf and Golf diesel seem like the best two car scenarios to me. But if I want modern safety and emissions then there's no way of not paying for them.

Battery trailer is on my to-do list this summer, assuming my Tesla stock does well enough for me to sell a few shares and make a decent profit. My goal is to actually make a solar and battery trailer, with panels that pop up and extend when parked, but still have 2-3 panels exposed when in motion to allow for a smaller amount of charging while going down the road. It would still require a L2 EVSE and pure sinewave inverter, to simply charge when stopped, but that would work for some of my longer range needs where it's a back/forth drive to a location without charging ability. I'm eying to use Tesla batteries for this. It would be a prototype, then I would hopefully build them as portable "green" generators for emergency sites, music festivals, etc.

Oh ya! I'd love to do a battery solar trailer! One of the first things I'd like to do is place some bids on some wrecked Leafs. If I can get one for cheap and harvest the battery from it that would be ideal pricewise. The solar thing would be a bit more tricky to pull off. I calculate that an 8ft wide trailer can provide up to 1kW in full sunlight for every 10ft of length. But an 8ft x 20ft trailer just to get enough for level 1 charging is a bit big. Now that same trailer could have three panels that slide out, making it a 24ft x 20ft panel and provide up to 6kW.
That would charge the 24kWh car and extra 24kWh battery in one full day of sun if you keep the panels angels towards the sun.

 

[gshepherd]

I'm down to one vehicle (well, the other one has wings): my 2016 LEAF SV. Great car, and so nice to have simplified the fleet down from the previous two cars and a motorcycle (each about a decade old, so the LEAF is a treat). Insurance, registration, storage, maintenance, repairs, depreciation, and just mental energy keeping track of it all... more than pays for occasional rental cars.

Rental cars allow me to check out what's new, like Apple Car Play integration. Unlike owning an extra car, there's no commitment. Turn it in and get back to enjoying my LEAF. One recent rental from Phoenix to Seattle in a full size sedan cost me all of $7/day one way, unlimited miles. That's less than just the mileage depreciation on a car I would own.

 

[IssacZachary]

I'm down to one vehicle (well, the other one has wings): my 2016 LEAF SV. Great car, and so nice to have simplified the fleet down from the previous two cars and a motorcycle (each about a decade old, so the LEAF is a treat). Insurance, registration, storage, maintenance, repairs, depreciation, and just mental energy keeping track of it all... more than pays for occasional rental cars.

Rental cars allow me to check out what's new, like Apple Car Play integration. Unlike owning an extra car, there's no commitment. Turn it in and get back to enjoying my LEAF. One recent rental from Phoenix to Seattle in a full size sedan cost me all of $7/day one way, unlimited miles. That's less than just the mileage depreciation on a car I would own.

Thanks!

So far my life has been built around owning two or three used cars and trying to keep them running. It's a love hate relationship. But when I start spending more time with my car than with my wife she tends to get a bit jealous.

This is one of the big reasons I got a Leaf. Not having to worry about when I need to change the oil or the filters or if the transmission needs flushed is a big weight off of the ol' shoulders. Sure, I have rebuilt engines, and have fancy tools to work on cars but I don't want to spend the rest of my life around my car. A new car is about the same. If I go blow $40,000 on a new Bolt then, well, time is money, and money is time. Then I'd have to work more to make more money and spend less time with my family. An $8,000 2013 Leaf seemed like the deal of the century to me. And on paper it's cheaper to rent occasionally than to own two vehicles.

Sounds like I'm coming onto something here. I could get a small generator for those days I want an adventure with the family, and travel from charging station to charging station with the generator as a backup. And on days I need to get somewhere fast I can rent a car. That seems to be the most practical, economical and stress-free choice.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Sounds like I'm coming onto something here. I could get a small generator for those days I want an adventure with the family, and travel from charging station to charging station with the generator as a backup. And on days I need to get somewhere fast I can rent a car. That seems to be the most practical, economical and stress-free choice.

For that scenario you might want to install a hitch, and get a small storage trailer with enough room for both the gen and any extra stuff you need to carry for a family outing over a larger distance. Then, in a year or two, you'll be shopping for one of those tiny Airstream trailers... ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

It would just be better to have two cars the leaf and a cheap car for traveling, while renting is good i found out sometimes isn't very convinient as just getting the keys and driving, going to the trouble of using a generator because inconvinient, i personally have 3 cars, a leaf a prius plug in and a corolla, all of those 3 cars cost me 339 at year to license them, 63 for the prius and corolla each and 213 for the leaf, the insurance i do have it on my driver license for 65 at month, so i dont have to insure each car.

 

[IssacZachary]

It would just be better to have two cars the leaf and a cheap car for traveling, while renting is good i found out sometimes isn't very convinient as just getting the keys and driving, going to the trouble of using a generator because inconvinient, i personally have 3 cars, a leaf a prius plug in and a corolla, all of those 3 cars cost me 339 at year to license them, 63 for the prius and corolla each and 213 for the leaf, the insurance i do have it on my driver license for 65 at month, so i dont have to insure each car.

Man! Where do you get your insurance? Edit: You pay insurance on your license. How does that work? That's cheaper than what I pay for sure!

But I hear you about convenience. I think Hertz is only open until 1:00pm every day. So if I got back at 1:00 or 3:00pm I'd have to wait until the next day to turn the car in. I think Avis and Budget are open later though.

So far since November I've only used my ICE once. That was a 1,300 mile round trip to see the in-laws (which I wish we would have just taken some form of public transportation). I plan on going to Delta one day this coming month and to Denver for two days in April.

I'd like to just try going on these trips and see if my brother will come tow me if I don't make it. It would help me get a feel of how far I can really go in the Leaf.

For that scenario you might want to install a hitch, and get a small storage trailer with enough room for both the gen and any extra stuff you need to carry for a family outing over a larger distance. Then, in a year or two, you'll be shopping for one of those tiny Airstream trailers... ;-)

Is that the way it's really going?

Awesome!!

 

[jjeff]

AFA generators another possible solution might be (2) 120v 16a inverter generators connected in parallel. True series would be better(240v @ 16a) but none I've seen(and I've looked at lots) allow series connection for 240v, best they can do is parallel operation for 32a @ 120v. Even with 120v my 6.6kw Leaf charger(and portable EVSE) can charge up to 27.5a, which would be similar to 14a @ 240v. Not using the generators to their full potential, but close.
What I like about the small portable generators is they are very portable and quiet, <50 lbs each and whisper quiet. At 50lbs each one can easily load and unload them alone, unlike large 240v generators which require 2 people, unless you want to throw out your back.
Now I remember reading a while back where Phil(from EVSEupgrade) tied 2 120v generators in series to give him 240v but I don't think he gave specifics other than it could be done.
My favorite portable 120v portable generator is the Generac 2200w(2000w continuous) which regularly goes for $499 around here, ~$1k for both and 2 would easily fit in the back on the Leaf and be under 100 lbs. Most larger 240v generators weigh 200lbs+ although many can be had for <$500 total although not to sure how well they'd charge the Leaf. The Generac being an inverter generator should charge just fine.
https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Generator-Portable-Watt-Volt/dp/B01LBFJV70/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1488207403&sr=8-5&keywords=120v+generac+portable+generator
Of course the true Cadillac of generators is the Honda or Yamaha which are both closer to $1k each and slightly less than 2000w 120v continuous.