Portland to San Diego, CA; California isn't ready for EV's

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frmercado

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
10
Just got back from a 2,450 mile round trip from Portland Oregon to San Diego California, plus a quick trip to TJ.

The NW people that live in Oregon and Washington don't know how lucky they are to live in a place that has such a great EV charging infrastructure (specially when it comes to interstate driving and the CHAdeMo standard). Thanks to the West Coast Electric Highway I was able to make the trip from Portland, OR to Ashland, OR in just over six hours, one more hour than it would take on an ICE vehicle; it took me almost 30 hours to go over the same distance in California.

For all the hype about California being an EV friendly state, what I can tell you from first hand experience is that this is only half true. Although there are definitely dense pockets of chargers and electric vehicles in California, particularly in the Bay Area (you would think that they are giving away the Model S over there!), there is a definite lack of fast chargers all over the State and of any type of charger in the north border and rural areas of that state. The I-5 corridor even south of the Bay Area has absolutely no chargers, with the exception of a few that can be found between LA and SD.

To those of you that think that the "West Coast Electric Highway" (http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) extends all the way down to California in some way or another, be advised that it stops in Ashland, OR, and that during the first 135 miles between Ashland and Redding, CA there isn't a single J1772 charger, let alone a fast charger (there is one Tesla roadster charger at a Comfort Inn in Yreka). The "West Coast Electric Highway" should be renamed the Pacific Northwest Electric Highway.

To get through those first 135 miles of steep inclines be prepared to have a NEMA ready high amperage charger to charge in one of the many RV campsites on the way or be prepared to spend 16 hours freezing in your car while waiting to trickle charge (like I did on my first time through on my way down to CA). In my return trip I just pulled over with 10% left on the battery, found a Comfort Inn with a nice lobby area with complementary tea and coffee in Weed, CA, and called LEAF road side assistance and had them tow me to Ashland, OR.

My hopes are that California has so far not yet started an EV charging infrastructure program or joined the current West Coast Electric Highway project because they were waiting for the SAE fast charging standard to be ready for public use and that they will deploy a similar network with charging stations that will offer the CCS-CHAdeMO combo. Hopefully... Otherwise do NOT travel to California in an EV unless its a Model S or you have plenty of time.

As far as the Nissan dealerships go I'd say that probably only a quarter of all the dealerships if that, have any fast chargers I also found that the attitude of the Nissan dealership people in the smaller towns towards the Leaf was not very welcoming, at several dealerships I found myself trying to explain the the purpose of having a fast charger at the dealership was not only to serve the local clientele but to allow travel within the state, to what I usually got a bemused response saying that that wouldn't benefit the dealership, because "they would probably have to pay for part of the install and the electricity used". I really hope that other car companies successfully copy the Tesla Motors business model and do away with dealerships ASAP...

All in all, I had a fun trip and found that though my Leaf is an amazing car and a great piece of engineering, it is limited as long as there is not enough infrastructure to support it.
 
Impressive road trip! It's too bad you had to be towed from Weed to Ashland, but I can't blame you for getting fed up.

The only "West Coast Electric Highway" that truly exists today is the one composed of Tesla Superchargers. Tesla is so far ahead of everyone else when it comes to building quick charging infrastructure, it isn't even funny. I shudder to think of the many millions of taxpayer dollars wasted by Blink/Ecotality! Meanwhile, California is waiting for NRG Energy to build quick charging infrastructure...
 
abasile said:
Meanwhile, California is waiting for NRG Energy to build quick charging infrastructure...

NRG has no plans to build outside of the four metro area, Sacramento, Bay Area, LA and San Diego. Actually,they are required to build in those areas.

Perhaps the OP will join us for the third annual BC2BC-2014 "All Electric Vehicle Rally", 1500 miles from Mexico to Canada, planned for August 10, 2014 - August 17, 2014. The start will be in the Los Angeles, California area, however we will drive south to the Mexico border (but not cross it with a car), then on to Vancouver, BC. Bring your passport for Canada and your A game! Again, we will not be entering Mexico with cars, but we will enter Canada.

We are also planning the "World's Largest Electric Vehicle Gathering" for Sunday morning, August 10, 2014 at our Los Angeles launch site. We will need everybody there.

Link to 3nd annual BC2BC-2014

Link to 2nd annual BC2BC-2013

Tesla forum link to 2nd annual BC2BC-2013 Rally

Link to first BC2BC-2012
 
I think pretty much anybody who is going to attempt a trip like this is going to do their research and route/trip plan. You should have known about the sparcity of California’s infrastructure before even rolling out of your driveway.

I can understand how easy it is to misinterpret the “hype” regarding California and their own charging infrastructure. This state is too vast and distances from one town to another with suitable charging infrastructures is less than a crap shoot at best.

Also consider that the mentality and the level of education changes in non-urban areas where as the labeling of the EV driver is on par with an un-American, non-patriotic socialist. That is, away from the bigger citys you are more looked at as a stanch Liberal-communist who is trying to shove the “save-the-planet” theme down their throats. Believe me, those rural people really resent it.

The best we can do, everywhere, is educate the people around us. Don’t get political and keep from sounding so liberal. Hit them where it counts and tell them you save $150/month by going electric like I do. Tell them two cars, 1-EV and 1-ICE, is better than any cheap hybrid to bust any of their range anxiety issues. This combo is the best of both worlds until the technology and infrastructure improves. If us people do this the infrastructure and mentality will more quickly spread and we will eventually have a more suitable state infrastructure. But until then, plan your trips more carefully and know what you are getting into before you have the tow truck starting to cast shadows in your own rays of sunshine.
 
It's ironic in this "technologically forward-thinking" State.

I found cellphone reception to be the same way. This fall I rode a bicycle down the coast starting in Seattle. I was almost never without good cell coverage... until I got to CA. After that, very LARGE stretches without coverage, stopping on hills to see, ... "maybe now"...?.
 
I am new, and may be washed up, but the way I see it, the NRG/EVGo business plan will not work here in San Diego. As for me, as long as I can get home, I will charge at home for $0.11/kwh. I do not even go to the dealer for "free" electricity from their L3 DCFC. It is not worth it to me. The time spent driving there, charging, and drive home add up to too much, when I can just charge at home for $1 or $2. The same for local L3 DCFC's anywhere within 20 miles from home. And never use the L2 240v other than home.

The time I need and want the L3 is when I am using the Leaf for longer drives and can not make the round trip without more juice. That is why I believe having L3 DCFCs along the freeways, every 30 to 40 miles, maybe even at Rest Stops, would be a much better plan.

As I see it, the only people that will benefit from a monthly fee plan are those that live or work close to these chargers, and do not have access to charging at home, appartments or HOA that will not allow an L2 to be installed.

Other than those above, the users of the L3 will be those that live more than 20 or 30 miles from them.

Just my local driving averages over 300 miles per week, which is more than the 15,000 miles per year on the lease. Any longer trip I take in the Leaf costs me the kwh + $0.15/mile excess mileage. Therefore it is cheaper to use the ICE if I have to pay more than double or triple the home charging costs. We have to save more than the $0.15/mile of the fuel cost just to break even.

Just my opinion,
Frank
 
Graffi said:
I am new, and may be washed up, but the way I see it, the NRG/EVGo business plan will not work here in San Diego. As for me, as long as I can get home, I will charge at home for $0.11/kwh. I do not even go to the dealer for "free" electricity from their L3 DCFC. It is not worth it to me. The time spent driving there, charging, and drive home add up to too much, when I can just charge at home for $1 or $2. The same for local L3 DCFC's anywhere within 20 miles from home. And never use the L2 240v other than home.

The time I need and want the L3 is when I am using the Leaf for longer drives and can not make the round trip without more juice. That is why I believe having L3 DCFCs along the freeways, every 30 to 40 miles, maybe even at Rest Stops, would be a much better plan.

As I see it, the only people that will benefit from a monthly fee plan are those that live or work close to these chargers, and do not have access to charging at home, appartments or HOA that will not allow an L2 to be installed.

Other than those above, the users of the L3 will be those that live more than 20 or 30 miles from them.

Just my local driving averages over 300 miles per week, which is more than the 15,000 miles per year on the lease. Any longer trip I take in the Leaf costs me the kwh + $0.15/mile excess mileage. Therefore it is cheaper to use the ICE if I have to pay more than double or triple the home charging costs. We have to save more than the $0.15/mile of the fuel cost just to break even.

Just my opinion,
Frank

I wholeheartedly agree. I actually got an EVGo trial membership ($7.95) for 50 days but only used their chargers on two occasions, while traveling from SD to LA and then on the first leg form LA to SF and they happened to be the only two fast chargers open which were along the 101 that I could find. The only way these companies will make money and get people to use them will be from commuters, city dwellers will just charge at their homes or offices.

Although I think that the best way to go as far as interstate travel is the way Oregon and Washington did it, government should get directly involved. As I see it, building infrastructure to make electric travel between cities possible is as much the responsibility of the government as maintaining the highways. You cannot give all this incentives to promote EV's and not build the infrastructure to support them. Oregon and Washington do not give a cash incentive unlike California, but they build the infrastructure to make living with an EV as your only vehicle viable, and even practical.
 
TonyWilliams said:
abasile said:
Meanwhile, California is waiting for NRG Energy to build quick charging infrastructure...

NRG has no plans to build outside of the four metro area, Sacramento, Bay Area, LA and San Diego. Actually,they are required to build in those areas.

Perhaps the OP will join us for the third annual BC2BC-2014 "All Electric Vehicle Rally", 1500 miles from Mexico to Canada, planned for August 10, 2014 - August 17, 2014. The start will be in the Los Angeles, California area, however we will drive south to the Mexico border (but not cross it with a car), then on to Vancouver, BC. Bring your passport for Canada and your A game! Again, we will not be entering Mexico with cars, but we will enter Canada.

We are also planning the "World's Largest Electric Vehicle Gathering" for Sunday morning, August 10, 2014 at our Los Angeles launch site. We will need everybody there.

Link to 3nd annual BC2BC-2014

Link to 2nd annual BC2BC-2013

Tesla forum link to 2nd annual BC2BC-2013 Rally

Link to first BC2BC-2012

I'm in for the next year!

I actually did go across the border just to say that I did! I got a real Mexican breakfast for like 7 bucks at restaurant in a mall in Tijuana and then came back!
 
Graffi said:
I am new, and may be washed up, but the way I see it, the NRG/EVGo business plan will not work here in San Diego. As for me, as long as I can get home, I will charge at home for $0.11/kwhr
The standard SDGE EV-TOU rate is $0.16 / 0.20 / 0.30 kWh. If you are paying $0.11 you are likely on an experimental rate.

Most public charging will be at peak rates, so one should really compare public charging cost to the appropriate cost.

All that said, flat rate QC charging in general discourages use of QC when it's most effective - 5-10 minute top offs that get you home or to longer term parking.
 
TonyWilliams said:
...Perhaps the OP will join us for the third annual BC2BC-2014 "All Electric Vehicle Rally", 1500 miles from Mexico to Canada, planned for August 10, 2014 - August 17, 2014...
That implies a lot of tow trucks for the Nissan Leaf participants - will the logistics be ready in time? ;)
 
DeaneG said:
TonyWilliams said:
...Perhaps the OP will join us for the third annual BC2BC-2014 "All Electric Vehicle Rally", 1500 miles from Mexico to Canada, planned for August 10, 2014 - August 17, 2014...
That implies a lot of tow trucks for the Nissan Leaf participants - will the logistics be ready in time? ;)

You realize that this has been done twice previously with LEAF's without any tow trucks? The infrastructure gets better every year.
 
drees said:
All that said, flat rate QC charging in general discourages use of QC when it's most effective - 5-10 minute top offs that get you home or to longer term parking.
I agree with you. However, given where I live and my LEAF's level of battery degradation, I need to leave a QC with 85-100% in order to get home with an okay margin. (It used to be that 75% was more than enough.) So, if you see a LEAF "hogging" a QC for 45 minutes, they might just need it for where they're going...
 
drees said:
Graffi said:
I am new, and may be washed up, but the way I see it, the NRG/EVGo business plan will not work here in San Diego. As for me, as long as I can get home, I will charge at home for $0.11/kwhr
The standard SDGE EV-TOU rate is $0.16 / 0.20 / 0.30 kWh. If you are paying $0.11 you are likely on an experimental rate.

Most public charging will be at peak rates, so one should really compare public charging cost to the appropriate cost.

All that said, flat rate QC charging in general discourages use of QC when it's most effective - 5-10 minute top offs that get you home or to longer term parking.

Drees, I am not on any special plan, but the regular rate. It is just that I only use about half of the baseline allowance. I use a C-Pap for sleeping and it is considered a Medical device, so my baseline is over 800kwh per month. We also have a very nice PV system.

Frank
 
Graffi said:
Drees, I am not on any special plan, but the regular rate. It is just that I only use about half of the baseline allowance. I use a C-Pap for sleeping and it is considered a Medical device, so my baseline is over 800kwh per month. We also have a very nice PV system.
It is my understanding that the medical baseline program only changes the base tier allowance and not the rate - and the base rate is currently about $0.15 / kWh, not $0.11 / kWh, unless you perhaps qualify for CARE as well.

http://www.sdge.com/total-residential-electric-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
abasile said:
drees said:
All that said, flat rate QC charging in general discourages use of QC when it's most effective - 5-10 minute top offs that get you home or to longer term parking.
I agree with you. However, given where I live and my LEAF's level of battery degradation, I need to leave a QC with 85-100% in order to get home with an okay margin. (It used to be that 75% was more than enough.) So, if you see a LEAF "hogging" a QC for 45 minutes, they might just need it for where they're going...
QC to 100% is a misnomer. As the battery fills, QC slows down drastically. They should put L2 near each QC so that people who want to "top off" can free up the QC once their charging rate has dropped to or below L2.
 
for 2011 and 2012 models with the 3.3kw charger its a long wait on the QC til you can jump to L2 and get the same rate

I agree aBOUT QC to 100% being a joke

you need decent range on a 75% to 80% charge to make QC viable for travel long distance

time from current SOC to 75-80% is reasonable

if you have to wait for 90 to 100% ............. better take a nap
 
tps said:
QC to 100% is a misnomer. As the battery fills, QC slows down drastically. They should put L2 near each QC so that people who want to "top off" can free up the QC once their charging rate has dropped to or below L2.
You are right - my experience has been that QC typically stops at least a few percent below "full" charge. If I still want/need more charge, I will plug into an adjacent L2 unit for a bit. Also, while we rarely have competition for QC near us, if the QC is free or charges by the minute, then I am generally happy to pause my charge if someone else comes by and just needs a quick boost.
 
frmercado said:
. . . but only used their chargers on two occasions, while traveling from SD to LA

Can you (or anyone else) comment on the trip between San Diego and Los Angeles in a Leaf?

I live in L.A. and have family in San Diego. I have an ICE car for the occasional (~monthly) trip to SD to see family. Still, I have an "urge" to attempt the trip in a Leaf some time.

How many charging stops did you have to make between the two cities?
Any particularly good (or bad) charing stations along the route to recommend?
 
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