Potential new Leaf owner..a few questions

[Roop550]

Hello everyone, I am in the market to buy a 2018 LEAF and had a few questions. I just went through their Limited Warranty manual and might have missed or misread a few things. (English is my 3rd language).

Also, I have NEVER bought a car from a dealership before under a factory warranty lol. So I'm new to the warranty covereages and want to know what and how do they cover the repairs and such.

My commute is 60 miles, roundtrip, 4 days a week. So ~250 miles a week. The vehicle that I am currently eyeing is a 2018 LEAF with 15k miles, from a dealer.

1. How reliable are these? (battery/inverter) for the long-term?
2. Is almost every maintenance is covered under warranty related to the Li-Ion battery and other
breakdowns of parts?
-EV system is covered for 60 months/60k miles and battery coverage/capacity coverage is 96
months/100k miles.
3. What are your guys' costs that have been so far with the factory warranties and what repairs
were not covered?
4. I've done some research about the range and I think it's safe to say that they will run ~150
miles or more on full charge, BUT is it more efficient or better for the battery to be charged
100% or 80%? I hear different things on this topic.
5. I came to the understanding that these batteries are Air Cooled and shouldn't be plugged-in to
charge right away after driving or whenever the car is hot. How long should I wait before
starting to charge it again? 99% of the time, I will be charging it at home.

I might have missed some questions or will have more, please bear with me lol. I have a V8 and Prius, trying to replace the Prius with the LEAF (trying to get my county's rebate).

I did a bit of research on this forum, but didn't find major problems listed on this forum or I might have missed some. Please speak out whatever your concerns or issues are that will help me make a better choice.

Thank you all in advance. Take care.

 

[GerryAZ]

Where are you located? Will you have 240-volt charging at home? Is your commute mostly highway or city driving? I suspect your estimate of 150 miles per charge is a little optimistic for a 2018 with 40 kWh battery unless your driving is at low speed. I easily exceed that distance at freeway speed with my 2019 which has a 62 kWh battery, but could not realistically drive 225 miles on my 50% larger battery. I will comment on charging after you answer the questions I have asked. You may find some useful information in this thread about buying used LEAFs: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662

The warranties do not cover routine maintenance, but there is very little maintenance required. Annual traction battery checks are required by guidelines in the owner manual to keep the battery warranty intact. The first two are free. Personally, I have had very little expense except for tires, windshield wipers (new refills once per year average), and cabin air filters (replace every 18 months in my dry desert climate). Cost of the annual battery check when no longer free depends upon the dealer so I will not quote prices. I replaced the OEM 12-volt battery in the 2011 with a high-quality AGM deep cycle type when it failed before 3 years even though I could have had a new OEM type installed by the dealer under warranty. I installed the same type 12-volt battery in the 2015 at my expense when the OEM failed and will do the same for the 2019.

 

[Roop550]

Where are you located? Will you have 240-volt charging at home? Is your commute mostly highway or city driving? I suspect your estimate of 150 miles per charge is a little optimistic for a 2018 with 40 kWh battery unless your driving is at low speed. I easily exceed that distance at freeway speed with my 2019 which has a 62 kWh battery, but could not realistically drive 225 miles on my 50% larger battery. I will comment on charging after you answer the questions I have asked. You may find some useful information in this thread about buying used LEAFs: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662

The warranties do not cover routine maintenance, but there is very little maintenance required. Annual traction battery checks are required by guidelines in the owner manual to keep the battery warranty intact. The first two are free. Personally, I have had very little expense except for tires, windshield wipers (new refills once per year average), and cabin air filters (replace every 18 months in my dry desert climate). Cost of the annual battery check when no longer free depends upon the dealer so I will not quote prices. I replaced the OEM 12-volt battery in the 2011 with a high-quality AGM deep cycle type when it failed before 3 years even though I could have had a new OEM type installed by the dealer under warranty. I installed the same type 12-volt battery in the 2015 at my expense when the OEM failed and will do the same for the 2019.

I am in Northern California in Alameda County. We also have solar panels, so our Net Usage for PG&E is usually a negative number because of the panels. But I do see that the Peak and Off-Peak are at 40 cents and 29 cents, respectively. My work doesn't have charging stations yet which totally sucks. I am in the talks with the local organization that provides rebates for the EV, based on income and I am eligible for $5,500, and Home Charging installation, which is capped at $2,000. Just waiting to hear back from them to confirm that they reimburse the installation for 240-volt charging.

My commute is mostly highway miles and I try to keep my speed within 65 to 70 mph vicinity to get the max mpg on my Prius and it would remain the same with whichever car I get. I know that the range can vary based on many factors such as temperatures, climate control, driving habits, and whatnot.

The usual small maintenance is expected to wear and tear, but have you or anyone had any major expenses? How many miles do you have on your car? I understand that you can't list the price for the annual battery check-up, but could you give a number just so I know? Being in California, I know that it will be higher than yours since I see that you're in AZ.

I am not sure how long I will keep the LEAF, IF I buy it, after how many miles or time period do you guys start to feel the battery degrade with the SOC?

I don't have much knowledge about EVs and dealership warranties' limitations, so please don't bash me for not knowing the most basic things lol

 

[LeftieBiker]

One thing you will notice about driving a Leaf vs driving a Prius (we have both) is that faster highway driving (over 60MPH) takes a larger toll on "fuel" consumption, and driving more briskly in the city takes a much smaller one. So have fun in low speed driving, and drive like a Granny on the highway if you want maximum range. Also, inflate the Leaf's tires to 40-44psi (many of us do 42) because the 36psi on Gen I Leafs is way too low, and the 38psi (IIRC) on the Gen II isn't optimum.

 

[Roop550]

One thing you will notice about driving a Leaf vs driving a Prius (we have both) is that faster highway driving (over 60MPH) takes a larger toll on "fuel" consumption, and driving more briskly in the city takes a much smaller one. So have fun in low speed driving, and drive like a Granny on the highway if you want maximum range. Also, inflate the Leaf's tires to 40-44psi (many of us do 42) because the 36psi on Gen I Leafs is way too low, and the 38psi (IIRC) on the Gen II isn't optimum.

Yes, I try to drive as conservatively as possible. I try to keep the numbers above 50mpg in the Prius and occasionally I'm running late and I will gun that Prius to its max limits haha.
I see. That makes sense to inflate the tires to that PSI. And I can take the streets on my commute to maximize a bit more range. But it might not be as time efficient as the highway though.

How is the Regen braking on these, does that make any difference to recoup or recharge the battery a bit?


Is it just me or does it take a while for posts to appear? Does each post go through an approval process? I might have posted it twice earlier because I didn't see it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

New members have to have their posts approved, because of the army of spammers trying to get in here.

Regen works well in city driving, and the 2018+ Leaf has a mode called ePedal that maximizes it and will actually stop the car as well, using the friction brakes for the last bit.

If someone tries to sell you a service plan, pass on it - the Leaf needs little service. If you can get an extended warranty, well, that's up to you. The main issue with the 2018+ Leaf so far is that some of them have bad cells in the battery, which are covered by the factory warranty. There is also an issue with the early production front radar units, also covered under warranty.

 

[Roop550]

New members have to have their posts approved, because of the army of spammers trying to get in here.

Regen works well in city driving, and the 2018+ Leaf has a mode called ePedal that maximizes it and will actually stop the car as well, using the friction brakes for the last bit.

If someone tries to sell you a service plan, pass on it - the Leaf needs little service. If you can get an extended warranty, well, that's up to you. The main issue with the 2018+ Leaf so far is that some of them have bad cells in the battery, which are covered by the factory warranty. There is also an issue with the early production front radar units, also covered under warranty.

I did read about that and the dash showing notification of something, I forgot the wording. Then the person and others did state that it was covered by the warranty, but it took the dealership a while to get it fixed.

I don't think I will be buying any additional warranty. The factory warranty pretty much lasts for quite a bit. Some expire within 5 years/60k miles or 8 years/100k miles. And am I right that EV batteries usually, or should, last for at least 100k miles before you start to see real battery degradation?

With the rebates, the LEAF should cost me roughly $11-13k, based on what's available at the time when I really go for it.

So, to calculate how much it will cost me to charge the LEAF, what's the equation. On my PG&E bills, I see 40 cents at Peak and 29 cents Off-Peak. I am going to call my electricity provider to double check. I just noticed that those are some very high prices lol.
40kwh X $0.29 ($0.40) = $11.6($16).
Or is there a diff method to calculate the charging costs? I won't be charging it outside home to avoid the additional fees and such.

 

[user 24513]

Our Leaf Plus, 62 KW battery, averages about 4 miles per KWh, for rough figuring. We pay 17 cents a KWh, or about 4 cents a mile. If gasoline costs $2 per gallon, that is the monetary equivalent of about 50 MPG. YMMV but charging at 40 cents is going to be expensive..... of course if the cost of gasoline included the REAL costs it would be twice as much or more per gallon. so no complaints from me!

 

[LeftieBiker]

And am I right that EV batteries usually, or should, last for at least 100k miles before you start to see real battery degradation?

No, nooooooooo, I'm afraid not. Last, sure, that's possible. With no degradation until 100K miles? Nope. Expect to lose an average of 4-5% capacity per year - less in a cold climate, more in a hot one.

The Leaf batteries used to degrade very rapidly, from 2011 through early 2013. Then they were improved, then improved again in 2015. Then Nissan took a step back with the 2016-2017 30kwh battery. The 40kwh pack seems ok - not as long-lived as a Bolt or (some) Tesla pack(s), but pretty good - so far.

 

[GerryAZ]

If you look at my signature block you will see that I am on my third LEAF. The 2011 battery deteriorated rapidly, was replaced by Nissan, and the replacement battery had lost about 15% of its capacity by the time the car met its untimely demise at 50k miles. The 2015 battery was much better, but was down to somewhere around 65% of original capacity when I traded it in after 4-1/2 years and 82k miles. There were a few weak cells as indicated by LEAF Spy that were really reducing energy storage capacity and range toward the end. It would have eventually set error codes and qualified for repair/replacement under the 8-year defect warranty (capacity warranty was only 5 years, 60k miles for 2015) if I had kept driving it, but using public charging every evening to get home was expensive and time consuming. I decided to trade it for a new SL Plus to get twice the motor power and 2-1/2 times the battery capacity along with tax credits. The 2019 battery has lost less than 5% of its original capacity after over 1 year and 21k miles so it is doing much better than even the 2015.

One maintenance item there is a lot of discussion about on the forum is the requirement for brake fluid replacement at 1 year and 15k miles or 2 years and 30k miles (depending upon which service schedule you follow). My dealer gives me a discount if I do the brake fluid along with the battery check so it is hard to give an exact amount for the battery check, but probably $50 or less with the combination discount. It only takes a few minutes for the technician to plug a computer into the OBDII port and download a bunch of information so it should not cost any more than $100 at even the most greedy dealer. I generally got the brake fluid replacement and battery check on the 2015 for around $100 total, but they know me and I have purchased 3 LEAFs from them. Of course, the first battery check on the 2019 was free.

I have been recording charging energy at home with a revenue accuracy meter ahead of my 240-volt, 30-ampere AeroVironment EVSE for quite a while. The 2011, 2015, and 2019 all average(d) about 3 mi/kWh from the wall (dash display typically 3.5 to 4 mi/kWh) with my normal use of climate control. Therefore, your 60-mile round trip commute on the highway should require about 20 kWh from the wall if you charge at 240 volts and the maximum current the car will take (about 27 amperes at nominal voltage). The car will draw more current if the voltage is low and less current if the voltage is high (charging power stays constant until the battery is almost fully charged and then tapers). Slower charging is less efficient because there is some power consumed by the car electronics while charging (that residual load is on for longer time if charge rate is lower). There is a lot of discussion on the forum about battery charging practices, but I have always charged to 100% on off-peak rates. In my case, the battery would normally get a chance to cool for a couple hours after I got home before off-peak power rates kicked in. If I arrive home after off-peak rates are in effect, I have no qualms about plugging in and charging immediately. The 2011 and 2015 were charged every night because my roundtrip commute was 52 miles, but I generally drive the 2019 several days between charges (I have been teleworking since March). The odometer reading divided by the total number of charge cycles gives me an average of a little over 137 miles per charge so far with the 2019 (there were some charge counts from charges before delivery and I did some testing of charging from generators that added a few charge counts which lower the overall average). I usually discharge the battery to 20% or lower before charging and always make sure the charge is below 70% if the car will be parked for extended time.

My 2011 had an electric water heater system for cabin heat. The 2015 and 2019 have heat pumps with dry resistance heaters as backup. The heat pumps have significantly less impact on range in moderate temperatures so I recommend that you get an SV or SL because the S models just have resistance heaters. In all cases, the air conditioning systems work great in my hot climate so you should have no issue staying cool.

 

[LeftieBiker]

My 2011 had an electric water heater system for cabin heat. The 2015 and 2019 have heat pumps with dry resistance heaters as backup. The heat pumps have significantly less impact on range in moderate temperatures so I recommend that you get an SV or SL because the S models just have resistance heaters.

Starting in 2018, Nissan started playing a Dirty Trick on prospective Leaf buyers. The heat pump-based "hybrid" heating system is now an option on the SV, in the "All Weather Package" which also includes heated front seats and steering wheel. So no All Weather Package in an SV means no heatpump, no heated steering wheel, no heated seats. Keep that in mind. You can't get the heatpump in the S as noted, but there is an All Weather Package for it that includes the heated seats and steering wheel, plus a rear seat heater duct.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

All westher went away for the S+ in 2020 our dealer told us. If I had known, I might have hunted a 2019 S+ with all weather a bit earlier in the year.

Let's see how winter 1 goes with our S. I dont need the heat pump for most weather here, but the heated steering wheel and seats help alot.

 

[LeftieBiker]

All westher went away for the S+ in 2020 our dealer told us.

Dealerships get so very much wrong - and lie so much - that I'm hopeful that that's the case here. If not, then don't buy an S unless you live in a Hot climate...

 

[goldbrick]

Do watch for the cold weather package. A lot of the really cheap Leafs here in CO appear to not have heated seats. I can't imagine driving an EV without heated seats but some cars here list them and on some it is conspicuously absent. I'm pretty sure from the descriptions that the Leafs without the Cold Weather Package listed as an option do not have heated seats. BRRRR.

 

[Roop550]

Our Leaf Plus, 62 KW battery, averages about 4 miles per KWh, for rough figuring. We pay 17 cents a KWh, or about 4 cents a mile. If gasoline costs $2 per gallon, that is the monetary equivalent of about 50 MPG. YMMV but charging at 40 cents is going to be expensive..... of course, if the cost of gasoline included the REAL costs it would be twice as much or more per gallon. so no complaints from me!

Yes, I forgot to call my electricity provider to understand the bill correctly as they have Tiers for the charges. I will do that tomorrow, but even if the Off-Peak price is $0.30 kwh, it's not really going to save me much or anything at all vs a Prius. My Prius' tanks fills up for ~$25-28 and lasts me almost the entire week (350-380 miles). Charging at 30 cents will cost ~$12 per charge from 0-100%. Suppose I really get 150 miles from one charge, so 2 charges will cost me $24, upto 300 miles, and still fall short compared to the Prius by 50-80 miles. :|


Thank you all for the information and little details here and there.

Honestly, I don't really mind the heated seats, steering wheels, and such. I can deal with those as long as the car blows in hot air in the winter season. It doesn't get super cold in my area anyway to really need those features. If it has the option package, great, if it doesn't, it won't bother me much.

I am more concerned and curious about the regular maintenance and known issues and problems with the electric components which might be expensive to repair...or sell the car once the warranty expires?

~$100, give or take, for the annual battery check-up at the dealer? Not a bad price. Roughly about the same you spend on an ICE vehicle for oil+filter change in the entire year.

So I get the sense that I should expect ~5% battery degradation per year on average annual miles. Can we have the dealership replace the battery if it degrades to a certain % before the warranty expires? As GerryAZ hat the weak cells in the battery will throw codes and will be covered under warranty.

Has anyone with 2018-2019 LEAF models had any major repairs that were NOT covered under warranty? Or might've had to fight for the warranty to cover it?

EVs and warranties are super new concepts for me. So I apologize if I repeat myself here and there lol

 

[LeftieBiker]

The degradation warranty on the battery is this: if the car loses more than about 33% capacity over 8 years/100k miles, they will replace the battery. Don't expect that to happen with your Leaf. If a defective cell shows up within 8 years or 100k miles, they will replace either the cell or the battery. I wouldn't expect to get a new free battery from Nissan any time, and to buy a new one would cost you about $15k installed, for a 40kwh battery, roughly. So if you need most or all of that 150 mile range, then either lease the car for 2 years or consider a 62kwh Leaf Plus, instead of the 40kwh version. That has a range when new of a bit over 200 miles.

As noted above, the cars sold without the All Weather Package in colder areas tend to be cheap. I just saw a 62kwh Leaf Plus for $105 a month with $2500 down, but it lacked the AW Package so I had to pass. If you don't care about heated seats and steering wheel, then focus on those cars without them for a good or great deal.

 

[user 24513]

We had a local guy add heated seats in the Plus S, about $500 but it was a luxury we could afford given that the S was a LOT less expensive than the other models. The seats work great.... and the S is a BIT more efficient than the other models as well which possibly makes up for the lack of a heat pump....

 

[alozzy]

@dmacarthur

I'm surprised you didn't opt for the SV Plus, as the hybrid heater would definitely give you some benefit in Vermont. With a 62 kWh pack though, perhaps that's less of a trade-off, as you have plenty of range even in winter.

 

[LeftieBiker]

We had a local guy add heated seats in the Plus S, about $500 but it was a luxury we could afford given that the S was a LOT less expensive than the other models. The seats work great.... and the S is a BIT more efficient than the other models as well which possibly makes up for the lack of a heat pump....

If only there were a way to add the heated steering wheel with relative ease. The aftermarket ones are Crap; I have one in the PIP, but you have to plug in the power wire and then drive with it in place, which isn't especially safe or easy.

 

[user 24513]

Our heated SW is a used one, from ebay, which uses a battery which is charged by the 12V plug and Velcros to the wheel when driving. It works pretty well, has 3 settings, the big downside is that you have to remember to turn it off or else the battery is dead next time you drive the car. Still not as nice as the factory deal....