Preliminary RANGE results

[mwalsh]

But, I would still need a full charge at work, so a plug-in 240v EVSE would be needed.

Does anyone think we'll be able to buy a portable EVSE? Or even a simple 240v extension cord with J1772 connector (and would that even work?)?

 

[DeaneG]

I can imagine a couple of polls or threads where we post our actual range and actual AC watt-hours per mile (wall to wheel) figures. I'm planning to use my Kill-A-Watt at 120V to measure AC kWh input since my commute is only 25mi RT.

Hopefully around December...

Tesla roadster guys seem to report 300 typical to 400 DC watt-hours max per mile (battery to wheel), and about 85% charging efficiency (wall to battery).

There's a lot more technical meat in tesla forums, since they have production hardware to work with.

 

[DeaneG]

But, I would still need a full charge at work, so a plug-in 240v EVSE would be needed.

Does anyone think we'll be able to buy a portable EVSE? Or even a simple 240v extension cord with J1772 connector (and would that even work?)?

Worst case, you could buy a second "Nissan" EVSE and wire a 14-50 plug on it. You'd need to find a hot 40-50A protected socket somewhere.

 

[evnow]

Merging this with the other "range" thread.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

isnt that with "heavy stop and go on freeway?"

No, we're talking about the bottom right hand quadrant of that chart shown in the picture. It shows 50mph on the equivalent of an "A" road in the UK - a two or three lane highway with slowing for (and acceleration from) roundabouts (traffic circles) used for traffic management.

oic. u taking it from pic. i looked at pic and to be honest with ya, "a pic is worth a thousand words" but only 100 of them are valid.

there is another post that has text that advises of the different scenarios. u might want to read that one. there are a half dozen threads alll going based on same article

 

[mwalsh]

Interesting to see what the AC robs you of when it comes to range. I was just pointed to page 16 of this .pdf:

http://www.nissan-newsroom.com/JPN/en/PRODUCTS/ZEROEMISSION/images/01/NNR/100611/leaf_presen_100611-05.pdf

Edit: Does anyone want to guess how fast the car is going based on the motor using 30-35kw of energy? I'm going to go out on a limb and say ~40mph.

 

[garygid]

Do they have "Close Windows, at 65 mph, adds 12 m"?

 

[evnow]

AC = 6 KW (we lose 24 miles / hour)
Others = 1.5 KW (we lose 6 miles / hour)

 

[garygid]

The 6kW figure for A/C seems quite excessive.
Maybe it is really 6 amps at 330v = 2kW?

The A/C for my 2400 sq-ft, two-story house uses slightly less than that!

 

[evnow]

The 6kW figure for A/C seems quite excessive.
Maybe it is really 6 amps at 330v = 2kW?

The A/C for my 2400 sq-ft, two-story house uses slightly less than that!

I think that is some kind of instantaneous peak. Even 30 KW for motor is high for steady state (that would empty the 24kw battery in 48 minutes).

 

[ShahulX]

wonder if you can keep the windows open but add window side deflectors to keep the coeficcent of drag down.... what is the COD? .27?

 

[AndyH]

One data point we have for AC is Electric Blue Motors system. They've basically taken the guts out of a household window AC unit and mate it to an inverter that converts the DC pack voltage to alternating current for the AC unit.

According to the datasheet, it operates at 120VAC. It draws 20A (2400W) for 20 seconds then draws 4A (480W) continuous. This isn't a lot of draw from a traction pack. 500W from a 350V pack is about 1.4A

 

[evnow]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php

Here is an interesting online calculator.

 

[planet4ever]

Where is your reference getting 70 miles at 55?
The picture above shows 78km at 81km/h (49 miles at 50 mph), right?

The 65 mph range, with some hills, might be ??? ...
significantly less than 49 miles?

isnt that with "heavy stop and go on freeway?"

No, we're talking about the bottom right hand quadrant of that chart shown in the picture. It shows 50mph on the equivalent of an "A" road in the UK - a two or three lane highway with slowing for (and acceleration from) roundabouts (traffic circles) used for traffic management.

First, I was very confused (probably due to merged threads) until I found "the picture". It is here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=562&start=47

We don't have roundabouts in my part of the world, but when did I ever let ignorance keep me from opening my mouth?

I think this is supposed to represent a worst case, so let's add some worst case conditions:
1) Traffic is heavy enough that you have to stop, or nearly stop, merging into each roundabout.
2) You encounter a roundabout once every kilometer.

Now, remember, the average speed is 81kph so you will hit 81 roundabouts/hour. You are going to lose 10-20 seconds for each of them, so you lose 13-27 minutes per hour. Let's call it 20 minutes. If you lose a third of your time in roundabouts you are going to have to make it up by driving 3/2 times as fast as your average, or about 120kph, whenever you can.

So, worst case: That 47 mile range happens if you drive 75 MPH with lots of stop and go and the AC on. (Yes, Gary, it's 47, not 49, because the picture shows 76km, not 78.)

The court decides in favor of Dave.

 

[Nubo]

Edit: Does anyone want to guess how fast the car is going based on the motor using 30-35kw of energy? I'm going to go out on a limb and say ~40mph.

Something doesn't add up in that picture. If the motor is drawing 35kW, the 24kWH battery would be depleted in less than 45 minutes, Add the apparent 7kW for climate control and "other", and you've got about a 1/2 hour. And yet it claims 120km of range. So, the car is travelling 160 miles per hour.

That is not an actual in-use picture unless the car was undergoing some momentary heavy acceleration. and 6kW for climate control? Holy crap! I think it's just someone's PowerPoint only meant to illustrate the single point "how to extend driving range by managing use of AC/heater"

 

[mwalsh]

Something doesn't add up in that picture. If the motor is drawing 35kW, the 24kWH battery would be depleted in less than 45 minutes, Add the apparent 7kW for climate control and "other", and you've got about a 1/2 hour. And yet it claims 120km of range. So, the car is travelling 160 miles per hour.

The car's maximum speed is supposedly 90 mph. Presumably, at that speed, the motor would be consuming pretty close to the maximum amount of power available to it (~80kw). This is why I assumed a cruising speed of ~40 mph.

 

[evnow]

That is not an actual in-use picture unless the car was undergoing some momentary heavy acceleration. and 6kW for climate control? Holy crap! I think it's just someone's PowerPoint only meant to illustrate the single point "how to extend driving range by managing use of AC/heater"

I think either the picture is when they just started AC and are heavily accelerating or more likely a made up micture (i.e. a simulation test picture).

 

[Nubo]

Something doesn't add up in that picture. If the motor is drawing 35kW, the 24kWH battery would be depleted in less than 45 minutes, Add the apparent 7kW for climate control and "other", and you've got about a 1/2 hour. And yet it claims 120km of range. So, the car is travelling 160 miles per hour.

The car's maximum speed is supposedly 90 mph. Presumably, at that speed, the motor would be consuming pretty close to the maximum amount of power available to it (~80kw). This is why I assumed a cruising speed of ~40 mph.

Understood. What I'm trying to say is I wouldn't try to gain any insights from the details of that slide. It's only intended to show that there is a feature to show you the range impact of climate control as you drive.

 

[evnow]

The EUR & US ranges for similar conditions lineup quite closely. Only difference is in highway scenarios 8 & 9. For some reason the roundabouts reduce the range quite a bit in Europe - I'd say for usual highway travel in the US range of 70 will be typical - atleast in eco mode.

 

[DeaneG]

Interesting that we have no 65-70mph numbers. That's my commute.