Prospective owner, current Volt lessee

[bwatl]

So I'm currently 1 year into a 3 year 15k/mile per year lease on a Volt. My only major issue with the Volt is I didn't get the heated seats option (shame on Chevy for not making it standard). Anyway, my Volt was in the body shop for about a month and a half and I managed to get a 2013 Leaf SV as a rental from Enterprise and absolutely loved it. I have to really baby the Volt to get 45 to 50 miles on a charge (best was 54), and I hate to run it on gas, so for my commutes, the Leaf is a much better option, plus I can drive it a bit faster, which is safer in Atlanta, lol. My girlfriend recently got hit in her Prius which will be totaled, and we are looking to pick up a Leaf. Neither of us are particularly fond of leases, so we are looking to buy. That said, we understand we could be taking a risk if the technology improves significantly. We have a 240 EVSE at home and are looking for a S model with the quick charge port and the on-board 6.6 KW charger.

My main question is, what is the general opinion on leasing vs buying? With the tax credits, it's an inexpensive car either way. My girlfriend isn't very car friendly, in her own cars at least, which is bad for leased vehicles. She is extra careful in mine though, so I was suggesting we swap. I'd still use the Volt for longer trips to South Carolina unless they get a quick charge station in Commerce. I had 24k business miles last year between several cars, and we're both real estate agents, and the Leaf would easily meet over 90% of our driving needs, plus we have other cars. In order to stay electric, I have to make a point to charge frequently with the Volt. With the Leaf, I just set it to charge at midnight and didn't charge very often during the day.

I do qualify for VPP. I've read up on some dealers in the area and there's at least one that it seems like I should avoid. Does anyone have any recommendations for the Atlanta area?

 

[bwatl]

A second question I have is about going with the S or SV model. I didn't realize that the S doesn't have cruise, which I find important for maximizing range, and apparently the heater isn't that great? Any other differences I should consider?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Read through this thread:


http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=334698#p334698" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[bwatl]

Thanks, I read that one already. I didn't know about VPP before that thread. I'm leaning toward the SV since the S doesn't have cruise or the option to disable ECO mode (something I liked with the rental).

 

[pkulak]

Personally, I've got the SV with the charge package, and I wish I spent a bit more for the premium package. That all-around-backup-camera thing looks awesome, and with how I destroy wheels on curbs while parking, it could really have come in handy. If you don't get the premium package, you don't get any kind of backup camera at all, which I didn't realize until after I got it home.

 

[surfingslovak]

My recommendation would be to lease. There are many reasons for that, and the lease will most likely allow you to enjoy the car more. As you say, both options are inexpensive, but the lease provides more clarity on TCO. Nissan has not disclosed the retail battery price yet. Should you need a replacement, and did not qualify for the new capacity warranty, the only option is the announced battery lease program. Many posters have expressed concerns about that, since this would not allow them to own the vehicle outright. Given this situation, and what has been discussed previously, a lease is a more logical and desirable choice than a purchase.

 

[DaveEV]

My recommendation would be to lease. There are many reasons for that, and the lease will most likely allow you to enjoy the car more. As you say, both options are inexpensive, but the lease provides more clarity on TCO.

+1. In Atlanta you can expect to lose about 15% capacity in a bit more than 2 years if you drive 10-12k miles/year.

On a 80% "long-life" charge, I bet you find yourself with EV range (factoring in reserve below LBW) that isn't all that different than a Volt after 2-3 years, so until Nissan either releases their "hot" battery or a price on a replacement battery pack or a pack with more capacity or you can live with 55-60 miles of range after 2-3 years and less even further down the road, I would recommend leasing a LEAF.

In Atlanta, a 2-year lease can be very, very inexpensive with the Georgia state rebate - I don't see any reason not to go down that route if you want a LEAF.

 

[planet4ever]

I have the S model and like it, but there are disadvantages. For me the biggest ones are the lack of cruise control and the tiny view screen for the backup camera. Your winters are cooler than ours, so the inefficient heater may be a problem, and you might wish you could control preheating from inside the house or your workplace. So far here I've found the seat warmers to be a satisfactory replacement for the slow, battery robbing, heater and I didn't depend on controlling charging or climate control remotely even when I had that option with my 2011. I'm not sure what you are saying about ECO. Yes, the S has ECO and you can turn it on and off, though I leave it on all the time. The S doesn't have B mode at all, which would give even more regen than ECO. B mode is new for 2013, so I have no experience with it.

On lease vs. buy, I would recommend lease unless you are going to go well beyond the 15K miles/yr you can get on a lease. Atlanta's hot summers are going to be hard on the battery. Combine that with cold winter temperatures and you are going to see a significant loss of range in the wintertime after two or three years. Rain also cuts your range. This definitely isn't going to be the kind of car you hold on to for eight or ten years!

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

This definitely isn't going to be the kind of car you hold on to for eight or ten years!

Well, unless you don't need to travel far between charges and/or a reasonably priced battery replacement becomes available.

 

[braineo]

Buy. $12,500 tax credits makes buying a SV with premium package for about 20k after taxes a great buy. VPP makes it an easy buy.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I you like using cruise control and don't want to have to obsess over how much power the heater is using, get the SV, with Premium Package as suggested. This is doubly a good idea if you buy, as the SV should keep more of its retail value than the S.

 

[DaveEV]

Buy. $12,500 tax credits makes buying a SV with premium package for about 20k after taxes a great buy. VPP makes it an easy buy.

But you can lease a SV for 2 years after the $5k tax credit for less than $3400 total out of pocket. After factoring in fuel savings, that's pretty damn close to free with no risk.

Otherwise say you pay $20k for 8 years, at which point you'll need a new battery pack and you'll have paid ~$6000 more than leasing a new LEAF every two years. Of course the tax credit won't last forever, but it should last 2 years to get you into the next-gen LEAF. Worst case, you buy it at end of lease and end up with basically the same price.

 

[surfingslovak]

But you can lease a SV for 2 years after the $5k tax credit for less than $3400 total out of pocket. After factoring in fuel savings, that's pretty damn close to free with no risk.

Otherwise say you pay $20k for 8 years, at which point you'll need a new battery pack and you'll have paid ~$6000 more than leasing a new LEAF every two years. Of course the tax credit won't last forever, but it should last 2 years to get you into the next-gen LEAF. Worst case, you buy it at end of lease and end up with basically the same price.

+1!

 

[braineo]

I used to lease all my cars since 1994, until i found the cars that I wanted with the options. i wanted and still own them for 12 years and over 120,000 miles of mostly trouble free driving. i see electric cars to be much more trouble free than gas cars, there are a lot less parts to go wrong. i hope my Nissan will provide me at least 7 years of service after it will be totally paid off in 5 years by the gas savings. I also hope that Nissan will provide me a whole new battery with advanced chemistry under warranty at little to no cost to me. Having no car payments and little to no cost electric car for local errands is a must do while starting retirement. My next electric car will be a Tesla Gen IIi for all my long distance driving. That will complete my stable. oh, yes, my old two regular gas cars will be maintained until they are run to the ground or totaled. My next car will have autopilot too!

 

[surfingslovak]

i hope my Nissan will provide me at least 7 years of service after it will be totally paid off in 5 years by the gas savings. I also hope that Nissan will provide me a whole new battery with advanced chemistry under warranty at little to no cost to me.

While this statement might be warranted, and I agree with some of your rationale, I would not go as far as recommending a purchase over a lease. Please keep in mind that a lease can be bought out, if needed. Yes, it will cost more than an outright purchase, but I would consider that extra expenditure as insurance for your large investment. If things don't go the way you were hoping for or you were eyeing that new LEAF with all the new features and possibly also more range, then a lease could make a transition easier. Obviously, everyone's situation is different. I had a lease pre-arranged and ended up buying my LEAF. I defended that choice with similar arguments, but have since revised my opinion. Yes, if you can keep the LEAF, and it will continue to cover your primary use case, then the gas savings alone will have amortized your investment. A lease will reduce exposure and risk inherent to a new and evolving technology, and facilitate faster upgrades, which might important to some owners as well.

 

[bwatl]

I greatly appreciate all of the input. We are leaning toward lease, but haven't ruled out buying, possibly at the end of the lease term. So here are the deals we've been offered from Nally Nissan in Decatur. We are looking at the SV with the quick charge port and the Premium Package.

Lease

Mileage: 12,000/yr
Residual: 18,171.30
Money Factor: 0.00008 (What is this?)
MSRP: 35,630.00
Sell Price: 32,518.00
Capped Fees: 595.00
Lic: 20.00
Upfront Fees: 718.00
Taxes: 1698.78
Total Cap Reduction: 7675.00 (Rebate)

Adjusted Cap Cost: 27,136.78 (For tax assessment purposes?)
Customer Cash: 1,115.18

Base Payment: 377.18 /24 months
Total Payments: 9052.32

Georgia Tax Rebate: $5000.00

Conservative fuel cost savings for 24,000 miles: $1733.33 (based off 45 mpg in the Prius at $3.25 per gallon)

 

[bwatl]

Purchase Quote

Sell price: 32,518.00
Taxable Fees: 98.00
Doc Fee: 599.00
GA Tax: 2158.98
Non Tax Fees: 41.00

OTD: 35,414.98

Fed Rebate: $7500.00 (possibly $7675.00 per the lease quote)
GA Rebate: $5000.00
Conservative fuel cost savings for 24,000 miles: $1733.33 (based off 45 mpg in the Prius at $3.25 per gallon)

Both quotes are supposed to be VPP pricing.

Thanks again for the input everyone!

 

[DaveEV]

Money Factor: 0.00008 (What is this?)

Money factor is like the interest rate on a loan. 0.00008 is quite a bit high from what I understand right now. Looks like you should be able to get at least 0.00005 if you have good credit.

Check out the last couple pages of this thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11245&start=1560&hilit=money+factor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[bwatl]

The lease quote was very bad compared to what Pinzgauer bought his for. Thanks for the link, that was very helpful.

AutoNation in Marietta quoted me the following over the phone, which includes a few more small options, and they beat the price by $100+ a month!

Vehicle Price: $35,630.00
Market Savings: - $3,362.0
Vehicle Selling Price: $32,268.00
Sales Tax (estimate): + $2,142.86
Tag/Registration Fees (estimate): + $20.00
Title Fee: + $18.00
MVWR: + $3.00
Documentation Fee: + $699.00
Balance Due (estimate): $35,150.86

$0 - $341
$500 - $320
$1,000 - $298

 

[TonyWilliams]

Money Factor: 0.00008 (What is this?)

Money factor is like the interest rate on a loan.

0.00008 * 2400 = 0.192% interest