quick charger locations idea

[Deleted member 14724]

How about placing them at fast food restaurants? These places have enough parking, and if we are there for 30 minutes we could use that time to help clog our arteries. One national chain could put in a few at each spot. Many are open 24 hours and they are not in any remote areas. They could run it as a profit center and since we are already a "captive audience" they could provide a 5% discount inside their store.

That's not what you do with a captive audience. Incentives are for non-captive audiences. Captive audiences get higher prices, not lower ones.

One chain in particular have you sit in your car and eat. What about having a DC fast charger at some slots? The 30 minutes we are there they could charge us to charge and sell us food at the same time.

And they would be smart to require a purchase, and to have a mechanism for enforcement. If they can actually make significant money from EV owners, they would have an incentive to actually have chargers installed.

 

[jpadc]

My other idea is Walmart SuperCenters. Walmart could really use some "Green" credibility and is not a place generally seen very positively by people whose political views tend to be a bit left of center and middle to upper middle clas - a category fitting at least some LEAF owners (yell at me later for the stereotyping). Walmart could fund or partner with Nissan or a network like ChargePoint to do installs on their properties (they have large well lit and monitored lots) and maybe bring some people into their stores who are not traditional customers who might be willing to respond more favorably to Walmart for supporting EVs. :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[desiv]

I think a tricky issue is the timing issue...

Places that would "like" people to stay as long as possible (malls?) might be more likely to want Level 2.

Something that is going to take 15-30 minutes is trickier..
If you're going to shop at a Walmart and you're going to be there over 30 minutes, are you going to want to leave Walmart to move your car when your charging is done?

Or are the chargers set up in a good enough location (NOT UP FRONT) that the cord can reach several spots.
So someone could move it to their car when done (assuming you don't have a Volt that will trigger an alarm, or so I hear..).

Or do you just put in multiple QCs, so it's not an issue?

10 minutes is quick enough to stay with your car. An hour or more is long enough to go shopping/dinner.

But the 15-30 minute quick charge is actually a bit of a puzzle...

desiv

 

[Deleted member 14724]

I think a tricky issue is the timing issue...

Places that would "like" people to stay as long as possible (malls?) might be more likely to want Level 2.

Something that is going to take 15-30 minutes is trickier..
If you're going to shop at a Walmart and you're going to be there over 30 minutes, are you going to want to leave Walmart to move your car when your charging is done?

Or are the chargers set up in a good enough location (NOT UP FRONT) that the cord can reach several spots.
So someone could move it to their car when done (assuming you don't have a Volt that will trigger an alarm, or so I hear..).

Or do you just put in multiple QCs, so it's not an issue?

10 minutes is quick enough to stay with your car. An hour or more is long enough to go shopping/dinner.

But the 15-30 minute quick charge is actually a bit of a puzzle...

desiv

If the charger is there as a courtesy to customers, meaning that Walmart is subsidizing it or giving it away, I doubt if they would do very high speed charging. They could even require payment through Walmart gift card or credit card for a reduced rate, which they used to do with gas in some places.

 

[mbender]

Walmart already has plenty of green initiatives and "cred", in spite of some who accuse them of greenwashing. Even if they are "greening up" though, I'd have mixed feelings about it: OT1H, yes, they are polluting less driving their massive 18+wheelers all across the country and in running their stores, but OTOH, I highly doubt the savings are staying in the communities that they are economically eviscerating. Rather, I'm sure they (the savings) are just making the family and shareholders that much richer. So, efficiency is not always a good thing in and of itself: it depends on who's doing it, why, and who benefits.

2005 Film (YouTube): Walmart: The High Cost of Low Price

If I'd have to pick a big-box or big retailer, I'd much prefer Target or CostCo. Come to think of it, what's up, CostCo?!

My other idea is Walmart SuperCenters. Walmart could really use some "Green" credibility and is not a place generally seen very positively by people whose political views tend to be a bit left of center and middle to upper middle clas - a category fitting at least some LEAF owners (yell at me later for the stereotyping). Walmart could fund or partner with Nissan or a network like ChargePoint to do installs on their properties (they have large well lit and monitored lots) and maybe bring some people into their stores who are not traditional customers who might be willing to respond more favorably to Walmart for supporting EVs. :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[johnrhansen]

some rest stops are pretty remote. You need 3 phase power for quick chargers. Plus what are you going to do for 20 30 minutes while your car charges? I say put them at starbucks. they are everywhere. They like it because you go in there and spend 20 bucks on the latest flax seed coconut milk latte while you are waiting for your car to charge.

 

[jpadc]

I say put them at starbucks. they are everywhere. They like it because you go in there and spend 20 bucks on the latest flax seed coconut milk latte while you are waiting for your car to charge.

I think much of this discussion is at cross purposes. Yes Starbucks are everywhere - in cities, as are Targets and Costcos. I think the limiting factor of EVs sales in this country is that while the current and near future range will likely work for most people's daily commute, they don't work if you have to travel outside your home city to another for work or leisure.

Plugshare is fun to just explore. Lots (or at least several) options in most every major city. No way to get between them. I can't get my LEAF the 180 miles from Indy to Chicago (I'll have to tow it to Wisconsin for the time I am there). There is no charging structure to support it. Most of Nissan's and other company's plans for charging infrastructure growth are limited to getting more chargers in the larger cities (where they sell and have more cars). But I think that approach misses what's needed for EVs to appeal to a wider audience.

As the salesman said to me when I bought my car, "Its a great car if you have another car." I think EVs will remain a niche market until either the cars can go 200+ miles (so people can have it be their only car) and charge in two to three hours - or - more likely - we can get a charging network in place that helps people get 200 to 300 miles with a quick charge or two "on the way" at about 30 minutes or so each.

 

[johnrhansen]

It's not to practical to take a leaf anywhere that required more than 2 successive quick charges. The battery just gets too hot, and it takes too long. In my neck of the woods, towns are about a days horse ride apart from one another. and a starbucks in each. The leaf can go 3 days worth of horse travel in one charge.

 

[trumpetnelson]

+1 on the Starbucks locations. Lots of 'em, easy to find, wifi and coffee. So, you also have a great excuse to hang around and charge a couple of hours.

Just swipe your Starbucks "frequent flyer" card. Free electricity for 2 hours if you reach "gold level" on your card. Man .... I can almost feel the customers coming in already to buy those fifteen $5 coffees to get the 23 cents of "free" electricity! Dude. Next thing you know they will give me 10 cents off each time I use that plastic cup that cost me a dollar. Oh ... they already do that ....

Nelson

 

[knightmb]

It's not to practical to take a leaf anywhere that required more than 2 successive quick charges. The battery just gets too hot, and it takes too long. In my neck of the woods, towns are about a days horse ride apart from one another. and a starbucks in each. The leaf can go 3 days worth of horse travel in one charge.

Perhaps, since for example, you get +75 miles for the initial charge, then another +75 miles for the next, then +75 miles for the second charge. That's +225 miles which is probably not typically for the daily driver. How often do people drive over 200+ miles daily, seems they would already be driving the most efficient gas vehicle they could afford at that point. While having QC everywhere would be nice, I think the easier and cheaper route to install more Level 2 chargers would be a more practical start. Maybe not the favorite for the long distance road warrior, but knowing you could drive for over an hour to somewhere, spend some time at the destination and get enough charge from a Level 2 to drive back without range anxiety would appeal to more people to adopt it.

Non-technical people are the target, my wife being a good example. She knows nothing of the ways to optimize range in the leaf (I often find it after she drives with the heat and AC turned on at the same time, all heated seats; even those no one is sitting in are going, in D mode of course, hates using Eco mode) and pretty much takes off like a rocket at every stop light. But she knows how to plug in the power to charge it and at of the local stores and that's enough time to charge up the difference she makes in being a really crappy driver for efficiency :lol:

 

[Levenkay]

Perhaps, since for example, you get +75 miles for the initial charge, then another +75 miles for the next, then +75 miles for the second charge. That's +225 miles which is probably not typically for the daily driver. How often do people drive over 200+ miles daily, seems they would already be driving the most efficient gas vehicle they could afford at that point. While having QC everywhere would be nice, I think the easier and cheaper route to install more Level 2 chargers would be a more practical start. Maybe not the favorite for the long distance road warrior, but knowing you could drive for over an hour to somewhere, spend some time at the destination and get enough charge from a Level 2 to drive back without range anxiety would appeal to more people to adopt it.

Going on a multi-QC journey is more like this: You get up to the maximum range for your driving style on your (presumably 100%, then cooled back to ambient) initial charge, and then you get 40+ miles for each successive 80% charge, because a) it would take twice (or more) times as long to stuff that last 20% into the battery, and b), trying to cram that last 20% into the battery seems to heat it way worse, too. I've done about half-a-dozen trips from Portland to the Puget Sound area, using from six to eight QCs in each direction, and find that I pick up roughly one temperature bar every three 20%-to-80%-ish QCs. Battery heating is indeed a limiting factor, but only barely more so than the sheer amount of time it takes to travel at an average of 30MPH. Of course, these sorts of trips work best in non-summer months when I can set out at only four or five battery temperature bars.

 

[Deleted member 14724]

Battery heating is indeed a limiting factor, but only barely more so than the sheer amount of time it takes to travel at an average of 30MPH. Of course, these sorts of trips work best in non-summer months when I can set out at only four or five battery temperature bars.

Interesting. That would definitely suggest a reason to have higher capacity batteries. And perhaps to even have physically larger batteries which can better disperse heat.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Going on a multi-QC journey is more like this: You get up to the maximum range for your driving style on your (presumably 100%, then cooled back to ambient) initial charge, and then you get 40+ miles for each successive 80% charge, because a) it would take twice (or more) times as long to stuff that last 20% into the battery, and b), trying to cram that last 20% into the battery seems to heat it way worse, too. I've done about half-a-dozen trips from Portland to the Puget Sound area, using from six to eight QCs in each direction, and find that I pick up roughly one temperature bar every three 20%-to-80%-ish QCs. Battery heating is indeed a limiting factor, but only barely more so than the sheer amount of time it takes to travel at an average of 30MPH. Of course, these sorts of trips work best in non-summer months when I can set out at only four or five battery temperature bars.

Now that's dedication to the cause! I would be willing to do that alone or with my wife, but with kids that would be torture. The good news is that a larger battery would make a huge difference in that trip. And that battery is coming soon (*2-3 years) to a Nissan dealer near you.

 

[DesertSprings]

They really need to get one of the larger gas station chains involved with DCQCs. From what I understand, most profit is made at the convenience store anyway, and it brings in customers who wouldn't normally stop there. After all, if you are stuck there for 15-30 minutes doing a QC, there's a pretty good chance you're going to end up buying some snacks while you wait. Most of the QC is done at the start, so even a 15 minute limit would probably work.

Obviously, this would only be at larger stations that have the extra room for the QC to be put a safe distance from the pumps and have the extra parking, but there are plenty of those around in this part of the world.

 

[desiv]

Just some anecdotal information for charging near food.
I work 60 miles from home.
Currently, my 2012 makes it in one shot, but I planned for this not being the case long term. There is a QC (with L2 also) almost exactly halfway in my route. At a gas station next to the Casino.
I've stopped there a few times for hot chocolate on the way in or a charge on the way back as a test or if I didn't have a full charge when leaving.

Anyway, my wife has had to come in with me a few times to help her family (they live in town where I work). Initially, we took the Subaru, but more recently (as she has gotten more comfortable with the EV), we've taken the Leaf.
That means she's running around with the Leaf during the day, and getting a near full is not realistic, so we stop on the way.

Almost every time (5 times so far??) she's been with me, we've had dinner at one of the restaurants at the Casino when we stopped for a charge.

So, having a charger is good for business.. ;-)
The one there is also a great location. Not only is it at a gas station / mini-mart, but it's right next to the casino.
Also, they (West Coast Electric Highway) set this one up nicely. There's the 2 options (DCQC and L2) and a full 3 spots. So I don't feel bad plugging in to the quick charge and walking away.
I will park way on the right of the charger. I have a nice little printed note I put in my window telling people then can unplug me if needed (and if I'm done of course).
I rarely see cars there, but it happens so I want to make sure they know they can unplug me.
If there was only one spot the cord would reach, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that...

Luckily for me, neither my wife nor I gamble...
(Although my co-workers keep telling me I need to start so I can win enough to afford the Tesla.. ;-) )

desiv