DeaneG
Well-known member
The problem is, it's not your oil habits, it's the developing habits of five billion Asians and Indians who are trying to improve their own lives.
Range Anxiety: Myth or Fact?
- Thread starter AndyH
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
garygid
Well-known member
Andy,
Perhaps you misunderstand my attitude, it is not negative, dwelling upon the limits. Rather, I see it as positive, in attemping to use the EV beyond its presumed limits that many people will be content to stay well away from (drive 10 miles to work, 30 miles max per day). Instead, I am planning to discover ways to push the limits, not yet knowing exactly what they will be.
My flight training was different from yours. In a glider we have to handle landings much differently, since we do not have the option of "more power" and "going around".
Perhaps a little bit like the difference between ICE and EV operation?
Perhaps you misunderstand my attitude, it is not negative, dwelling upon the limits. Rather, I see it as positive, in attemping to use the EV beyond its presumed limits that many people will be content to stay well away from (drive 10 miles to work, 30 miles max per day). Instead, I am planning to discover ways to push the limits, not yet knowing exactly what they will be.
My flight training was different from yours. In a glider we have to handle landings much differently, since we do not have the option of "more power" and "going around".
Perhaps a little bit like the difference between ICE and EV operation?
EVDRIVER
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2010
- Messages
- 6,753
Measuring the exact range of an EV and attempting to do so as an estimate of a trip is a challenge. The proper way as many have mentioned is to drive within safe limits with extra battery capacity to spare. I have about 60K EV miles and I have never run out of charge and even tend to push the limits at times but when I do that it is under conditions I have driven before, not new and unknown terrain. If you drive a drive repeatedly and know your vehicle you get very good at understanding the reasonable limits, even allowing for AC and the like. The Leaf is really a 50-60 mile driver for many and should not be looked at as a car with a 100 mile range not even 75. Once people understand the real range they will have no issue with range anxiety, if you recall Nissan asked specific questions about the type of driving for each applicant based on the range impact of those conditions.
I have said it over and over, what really kills the range on the Leaf is it's weight. My think weighed 2200 lbs with a 500 lb 10 KW pack and I could do 60 miles in the city. With a 500 lb 24kw pack it would do quite well not to mention a 250 lb or less 10kw pack. Even an extra passenger had a noticeable impact when traveling on hilly areas, a 3-5K lb EV in hilly areas can really suffer, I had one in this weight area as well and the hills were a killer, you could see the amps go up ten fold at times on even moderate hills at low speed. As a city commuter the Leaf should do very well for most people.
I have said it over and over, what really kills the range on the Leaf is it's weight. My think weighed 2200 lbs with a 500 lb 10 KW pack and I could do 60 miles in the city. With a 500 lb 24kw pack it would do quite well not to mention a 250 lb or less 10kw pack. Even an extra passenger had a noticeable impact when traveling on hilly areas, a 3-5K lb EV in hilly areas can really suffer, I had one in this weight area as well and the hills were a killer, you could see the amps go up ten fold at times on even moderate hills at low speed. As a city commuter the Leaf should do very well for most people.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
weight is a killer and i am still surprised the Leaf will weigh 3500 lbs. but after the one thread posting estimated ranges under various driving conditions, it does appear obvious that the pack is 24 KWH period and usable will be something along the lines of 85-90% of that.
that is ok with me. heck i drive an EV now that has a 6 KWH pack and only really can use 2-3 kwh to preserve battery life since it lead acid. i have driven it nearly daily for almost 3 years. so it can work if u simply want it to.
the Leaf will work better and take even more of the driving needs i have.
that is ok with me. heck i drive an EV now that has a 6 KWH pack and only really can use 2-3 kwh to preserve battery life since it lead acid. i have driven it nearly daily for almost 3 years. so it can work if u simply want it to.
the Leaf will work better and take even more of the driving needs i have.
Nubo
Well-known member
AndyH said:
My Instrument checkride was going well until the approach to our home airport. When examiner pulled the hood I was high and fast. The landing was certainly salvageable on that nice clear day. In IFR weather I would have been a fool to try. Instead of slipping and horsing the plane down to the runway I called a missed approach, came around and did it right -- with the sinking feeling that I'd blown the checkride. To my surprise the examiner didn't have a problem passing me. It wasn't good that I screwed the approach, of course, but he liked that I resisted the pressure to save the landing and had the presence of mind to not force a bad hand. He said if I'd carried on and made a perfect landing he would have busted me on the spot!
Nubo
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
To be realistic, one can run close to the edge in a petrol car in a populated area, fairly secure that there will be a filling station of some type coming along in a few minutes. It's all a matter of degree and planning, of course. I don't expect it to be a major issue.
I remember in the '80s driving through Montana, passing a station in the late afternoon since I still had over a quarter tank. There wasn't an open station visible from the highway from then on! Several excursions on dark side roads were fruitless though I did find a completely empty but incredibly well-lit huge array of tennis courts (???). I used to get 40mpg in that car, but must have pushed it way past that, driving frontage roads in case I ran out, and so I could cruise at 40mph in 6th gear. I went on like that until 2 a.m. when I FINALLY reached a truck stop in North Dakota, I think. According to the pump I'd had .02 gallons remaining. Range anxiety at its finest.
sjfotos
Well-known member
This is an interesting article about having the charging stations installed at dealers certified to sell the Leaf. If so, this will be a very welcome addition to the 'range anxiety' mitigation strategy. I could easily see me pulling into any number of intermediate locations to get some additional range on a trip longer that the 50 miles that is my usual daily maximum. (I usually come in under 30 miles)
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/06/17/nissan-to-install-up-to-four-level-2-fast-chargers-at-each-dealer/
http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/06/17/nissan-to-install-up-to-four-level-2-fast-chargers-at-each-dealer/
BrendanDolan
Well-known member
Nubo said:AndyH said:
My Instrument checkride was going well until the approach to our home airport. When examiner pulled the hood I was high and fast. The landing was certainly salvageable on that nice clear day. In IFR weather I would have been a fool to try. Instead of slipping and horsing the plane down to the runway I called a missed approach, came around and did it right -- with the sinking feeling that I'd blown the checkride. To my surprise the examiner didn't have a problem passing me. It wasn't good that I screwed the approach, of course, but he liked that I resisted the pressure to save the landing and had the presence of mind to not force a bad hand. He said if I'd carried on and made a perfect landing he would have busted me on the spot!
That's a good story! Seems to be a fair number of pilots involved in EV's (maybe we just like toys?!).
Maybe part of the reason why I don't have range anxiety is the same reason why I don't have it in airplanes. I plan for what I'm doing, and I operate within the realm of reasonable. I'm not going to take off in hardball IFR in an old plane, and carry the bare min of fuel to my socked in destination, and my socked in non precision alternate. Since I'm used to "range" issues having a possibly lethal impact on my life, I'm more aware of "does this machine meet my mission."
Per my RC planes, I just don't want to go fish them out of the Bay, or a tree, or someones backyard when the ESC cuts the power because I've run them too long. :lol: :lol:
sjfotos
Well-known member
jgrode1 said:
Yup. Just put $440 into the '94 Lexus for brakes all round.......just hoping all else holds together.
Jimmydreams
Well-known member
BrendanDolan said:
I have a whopping 12 hours of PIC back in 1985.
But I've spent the last 23+ years yelling at pilots. I'm ATC, and love toys too!!! :lol:
AndyH
Well-known member
Jimmydreams said:
It's always good to have someone with some PIC time at the other end of the radio! You're all right, Jimmy!
DanCar
Well-known member
In other words are you a one car household and like to take long trips.
Do you prefer a leaf with a generator trailer or a volt with built in generator? Why?
Do you prefer a leaf with a generator trailer or a volt with built in generator? Why?
LakeLeaf
Well-known member
sjfotos said:
Interesting if true - not sure about the strategy though.
4 level two stations charge 4 cars in 8 hours - not that anyone would hang at the dealer for an 8 hour charge - and being able to only do 2 - 1 hour test drives in a car in a day also might not work well - and of course those test drives would have to be 8 hours apart.
So - 4 chargers at $2200 = $8800
One fast charger would charge 8 cars in 4 hours - which is infinitely more valuable to both the dealer and the customer and the acceptance of the vehicle. The service department wouldn't have to keep the car overnight to recharge after discharging to work on it.
A level 3 charger is reported to cost about $17,000 - or the cost of 8 level 2 charges, yet is still twice as fast as those 8 chargers combined.
So by my logic - installing a level 3 charger at every Leaf certified dealer would be 1/2 the price of installing level 2 chargers
I understand there may be some issues related to the available power at the dealer, but would have to believe that a good number of dealer would have access to 440v power. I may be wrong there.
I think we should keep pushing for level 3 chargers at dealers as a way to quickly increase the driving range of our Leafs.
LakeLeaf said:
I thought the *cheap* level 3 chargers used a step-up transformer to achieve 480v? So weren't dependent on the dealer having commercial electrical service.
LakeLeaf
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
If that is the case, then even more reason to press for level 3 at the dealers
LakeLeaf said:
Definitely!
evnow
Well-known member
LakeLeaf said:
I'm sure they will - after getting UL certified.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DanCar said:
that is easy. MUCH prefer a Leaf. i have a Prius and i dont believe a Volt would be better in my situation. well ok; i have 2 Pri's and will get rid of one plus my Zenn EV when the Leaf comes along.
doing the same for a Volt would not make sense. i would get a plug in kit for my Pri before i did that.
but i look at how often my Leaf would cover me without a extended range if i had it today WITHOUT any additional chargers other than what we already have it would cover me 95+% of the time.
the other 3-5% i would needed the extended range if i did not have the other Pri. but if i did not as the OP suggests, i would rather rent a generator for those 3-5 times a year a i need it and burn ZERO gas the rest of the time
Dav
Well-known member
One thing to think about as regards chargers at dealers.
The dealer service department needs them, too.
SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) at Toyota dealers when the RAV4-EV was being sold: no user access to chargers.
Yes, exceptions were made. But mostly they were off-limits.
The dealer service department needs them, too.
SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) at Toyota dealers when the RAV4-EV was being sold: no user access to chargers.
Yes, exceptions were made. But mostly they were off-limits.
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