Red light camera ticket in Leaf.

[lkkms2]

I logged in and looked at the video. And the two snapshot photos provided with time stamps. Yes the video quality is lower, but on my big screen monitor I could almost see when the light turned red. However, the two snapshots have much better quality. You showed snapshot of B Scene. On my big monitor the light was showing red before you crossed the white limit line. And the snapshot A which was slightly before you reached the white limit line the light was also red. The time stamp numbers at the top of the still photos have something to do with the time when the red light came on. You would have to ask the city clerk to explain exactly.

When you were coming close to the intersection it was at the last leg of being yellow, but when you took your eyes off the signal and concentrated to turn right the light had just turned red earlier. Sorry you just missed it and the technology is just too precise.

I do agree with an earlier poster LTLFTcomposite that red light violations can be killers, especially the straight through one's. So these systems should be used to reduced those. Right turns such as yours was would not generally be as serious an accident, but still could cause one.....

Years ago I knew a Traffic Engineer that successfully appealed a red light violation, but his appeal was based on a inappropriate too short of a Yellow light duration which did not follow the traffic signal standards. That is, the yellow was tooo short to allow a normal driver driving at the posted speed to reasonably be expected to stop.

 

[adric22]

When you were coming close to the intersection it was at the last leg of being yellow, but when you took your eyes off the signal and concentrated to turn right the light had just turned red earlier. Sorry you just missed it and the technology is just too precise.

I'd just like to chime in. I don't think at any point was I trying to claim that I did not break the law. But in the same regard that speeding 46 mph in a 45 mph zone shouldn't really deserve a ticket, neither should this offense. And I can guarantee you that if they gave me a ticket for this offense then they are most likely giving out thousands of such tickets every day, being the amount of traffic that turns right at this intersection. And that leaves little doubt that this camera is there for monetary gain, not for safety.

But also, the main reason I posted this on this forum was to let all of the leasers on here know what to expect with this type of thing, because it certainly came as a surprise to me.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I logged in and looked at the video. And the two snapshot photos provided with time stamps. Yes the video quality is lower, but on my big screen monitor I could almost see when the light turned red. However, the two snapshots have much better quality. You showed snapshot of B Scene. On my big monitor the light was showing red before you crossed the white limit line. And the snapshot A which was slightly before you reached the white limit line the light was also red. The time stamp numbers at the top of the still photos have something to do with the time when the red light came on. You would have to ask the city clerk to explain exactly.

When you were coming close to the intersection it was at the last leg of being yellow, but when you took your eyes off the signal and concentrated to turn right the light had just turned red earlier. Sorry you just missed it and the technology is just too precise.

I do agree with an earlier poster LTLFTcomposite that red light violations can be killers, especially the straight through one's. So these systems should be used to reduced those. Right turns such as yours was would not generally be as serious an accident, but still could cause one.....

Years ago I knew a Traffic Engineer that successfully appealed a red light violation, but his appeal was based on a inappropriate too short of a Yellow light duration which did not follow the traffic signal standards. That is, the yellow was tooo short to allow a normal driver driving at the posted speed to reasonably be expected to stop.

i cannot agree with your implication of the issue of this post.

seems to me the issue was Nissan paying the ticket and then passing that cost onto the lessee WITH a processing fee and without so much as a word beforehand.

how would you feel if someone started spending your money without asking you then adding a fee on top of that?

 

[thankyouOB]

buyers get the steal-your-battery program and lessees get the ticket administration fee.
hilarious.

 

[lkkms2]

When you were coming close to the intersection it was at the last leg of being yellow, but when you took your eyes off the signal and concentrated to turn right the light had just turned red earlier. Sorry you just missed it and the technology is just too precise.

I'd just like to chime in. I don't think at any point was I trying to claim that I did not break the law. But in the same regard that speeding 46 mph in a 45 mph zone shouldn't really deserve a ticket, neither should this offense. And I can guarantee you that if they gave me a ticket for this offense then they are most likely giving out thousands of such tickets every day, being the amount of traffic that turns right at this intersection. And that leaves little doubt that this camera is there for monetary gain, not for safety.

But also, the main reason I posted this on this forum was to let all of the leasers on here know what to expect with this type of thing, because it certainly came as a surprise to me.

I agree red light violation cameras should be for increased safety, not for monetary gain.

I wonder if somewhere hidden in the lease agreement language there is mention of how Nissan will handle tickets sent to them, including the $20 processing fee. I appreciate you sharing that this happened . Good to know.

As a citizen there is no reason you can not get information on the statistics on accidents and red light violations at this intersection;that is, if they have that information well organized. Also information on the duration of the yellow light and if this is set at a minimum duration or they have provided a little extra yellow for that speed. If it is too short this should be adjusted.

Here is an interesting study:

Reducing Red Light Running Through Longer Yellow Signal Timing and Red Light Camera Enforcement: Results of a Field Investigation

http://www.stopredlightrunning.com/pdfs/ReduceRedLt_IIHS_.pdf

And another study (with a couple good graphs showing dramatic reduction after making yellow a little longer):
http://saferstreetsla.org/signal-timing/

 

[caffeinekid]

I recognize that OP's infraction was not flagrant, but it's easy to find videos of red light runners causing serious accidents, and you see people all the time flying through red lights like the rules aren't meant for them. There aren't enough cops in all the world to police the bad behavior, so I'm glad to see some automation brought to bear on the problem. Had I lost a loved one in an accident caused by a red light runner I would feel more strongly so.

Clearly you haven't done much- if any- research on the subject. You apparently aren't aware that nearly 80% of revenue collected on red light violations is from tickets citing failure to come to a COMPLETE stop behind the white line on a right turn on red. Of those violations, as is the case in the OP's citation, the absence of a right turn signal is the money maker. Clearly the intersection needs one, as do MANY across the nation, but rather than complete the proper engineering studies and address the insufficiency, municipalities opt to collect revenue on technicalities. Also, red light collisions that result in fatalities and/or trauma are most often the result of illegal activities (running from the police, negligent speed, etc.) or inattentive driving- NEITHER of which are impacted in any way by the presence of red light cameras. In fact, there are plenty of studies out there showing increased rear end collisions resulting from the type of moron who hits their brakes hard when approaching a yellow rather than get an automated ticket from a corporate fascist.

BTW, right turn on red without coming to a complete stop and counting to three is not "bad behavior" in the real world. It is the movement of people from point A to point B. If an accident results from the rare poor judgement of distance and speed, then address THAT situation as needed. It is no excuse to ticket every other person who didn't follow the letter of the law.

http://www.stopredlightcameras.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.banthecams.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The law is quite clear, red light means stop, and right on red requires you to come to a full stop. I have never heard anything about counting to three. So if 80% are ROR violations that must mean 20% aren't... not that it matters, a violation is a violation, if you didn't enforce them equally you would have some lawyer raising that as a defense. This argument that red light cameras cause rear end collisions is BS too, drivers are resposible for not running into the car in front of them, if they do they need to be cited for that too.

 

[Nubo]

I'm just freaked out by the horizontal signal boxes. WTH, Texas?

 

[dgpcolorado]

I'm just freaked out by the horizontal signal boxes. WTH, Texas?

It does make it more difficult for those with red/green color blindness. Telling the color by the position of the light is more difficult with horizontal stoplights.

 

[adric22]

I'm just freaked out by the horizontal signal boxes. WTH, Texas?

It does make it more difficult for those with red/green color blindness. Telling the color by the position of the light is more difficult with horizontal stoplights.

Why is it more difficult? I am red/green color deficient and have lived in Texas all my life. Its never been an issue. If it is on the right, it is green, on the left is red. Some of our lights are actually vertical, in which case on the top it is red and bottom is green. Not a big deal.

 

[caffeinekid]

The law is quite clear, red light means stop, and right on red requires you to come to a full stop. I have never heard anything about counting to three. So if 80% are ROR violations that must mean 20% aren't... not that it matters, a violation is a violation, if you didn't enforce them equally you would have some lawyer raising that as a defense. This argument that red light cameras cause rear end collisions is BS too, drivers are resposible for not running into the car in front of them, if they do they need to be cited for that too.

Absolutely. You are "right." No need to go into what the law is there for or why we have due process. Capitalizing on technicalities is the issue here and you know it. And may the gods of "letter of the law" smile on you personally as much as possible so that you can justify to yourself why you were ticketed for any of the plethora of technically illegal activities that an average person commits in a given period of time. Bumper over the white line? Ticket. Fail to use your turn signal to indicate lane change or entry onto a roadway? Ticket. Excess acceleration regardless of circumstance? We've got a monitoring system for that too. Ticket! A mile over the posted speed limit? Ticket. The list goes on. We pick and choose enforcement everyday. That is why we have cops. These crooks with ATS and Redflex lost enough cases early on that they had to change their strategy to one of civil violations; hence the equivalent of a parking ticket rather than a moving violation. They really are the lowest form of enterprise- blurring the line between legitimate law enforcement and extortion.

 

[LEAFer]

What does the fine print on the LEASE document you signed say about traffic violations, due process, and if/how Nissan can pay the ticket ?

 

[capturedPI]

ANYONE who leased, or is currently leasing a vehicle through NISSAN (NITL) please contact me. It is against the law for them to pay these tickets. They remove your right to due process and also add additional fees to the price. I am a private investigator actively seeking additional plaintiffs in ongoing legislation AGAINST Nissan.

contact me on this forum or at
[email protected]
www.ciapi.info