SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

[ttweed]

I see that both DR-SES and EV-TOU2 rate schedules include holidays as non-peak periods, so what days are officially designated holidays by SDG&E for TOU purposes? I can't find it anywhere on their website.

Also, I called SDG&E about how and when I can change my rate to EV-TOU2 when I install solar and go on NEM, and they said I can change anytime, but it takes "1 or 2 billing periods" for the change to take effect. WTF!?!? A 60-day window is not very precise. They also said you can only change rates once in a 12-month period, but you can opt out in the first couple of months (before the 3rd billing period).

TT

 

[philip]

I couldn't find a holiday schedule either - they have holiday schedules for the offices and meter reading, but they don't correspond to rate holidays. For instance, 11/11, veterans day was a rate holiday, but it is not listed as a holiday for meter reading or offices.

As far as switching rates, when I did it back in 2012, it took affect on the next billing cycle. When I added solar, the NEM started retroactively with the billing cycle I was on when I received NEM authorization.

 

[ttweed]

Well, the PUC did not give the utilities everything they wanted regarding solar installations and net metering. I'm pleased they took a middle ground. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-rooftop-solar-subsidy-20151215-story.html

Under the PUC plan, new solar customers would face a one-time fee for connection to the electric grid. The commission estimates that the fee would range from $75 to $150 per solar customer.

In addition, rooftop solar customers would pay a fee of 2 cents to 3 cents per kilowatt-hour for electricity used from the utility companies, no matter how much power their solar systems generate. This fee would amount to about $5 a month for the average solar user.

I can live with that.

TT

 

[Valdemar]

EV customers will likely be affected the most by the non-bypassable charges of 2/3c per kWh.

 

[RegGuheert]

In addition, rooftop solar customers would pay a fee of 2 cents to 3 cents per kilowatt-hour for electricity used from the utility companies, no matter how much power their solar systems generate.

Let's see if this fee could justify the purchase of Enphase's upcoming AC Battery. For $1000, you get a battery which is guaranteed to cycle twice per day for 10 years. In other words, you will pay $1000/(365 days/year * 10 years * 2 cycles/day * 1.2kWh/cycle * 0.9 kWh/kWh) = $0.127/kWh for energy stored in the AC Battery. This number assumes there is no cost for additional PV and/or installation and that no other equipment is required to be purchased to connect the AC Batteries (not valid, since, at a minimum, Engage cable and breakers are required).

The bottom line is that the current PUC proposal provides grid "storage" at a price which is likely less than 1/5 the price of the AC Battery.

 

[ttweed]

EV customers will likely be affected the most by the non-bypassable charges of 2/3c per kWh.

Dang, I forgot about this. Almost all of my EV charging is at night, when the solar system will not be generating any power. The EV charging is usually 1/2 of my power consumption, averaging over 300kWh/month, so I will probably pay twice the "average" solar user because of this fee! Now I'm pi$$ed again...it's EV discrimination! :evil:

TT

 

[Valdemar]

EV customers will likely be affected the most by the non-bypassable charges of 2/3c per kWh.

Dang, I forgot about this. Almost all of my EV charging is at night, when the solar system will not be generating any power. The EV charging is usually 1/2 of my power consumption, averaging over 300kWh/month, so I will probably pay twice the "average" solar user because of this fee! Now I'm pi$$ed again...it's EV discrimination! :evil:

TT

If I read it correctly it will only apply to new NEM agreements, so if you already have solar it doesn't apply. Even if you don't there is still time to get in under the NEM1 rules.

 

[wsbca]

EV customers will likely be affected the most by the non-bypassable charges of 2/3c per kWh.

Dang, I forgot about this. Almost all of my EV charging is at night, when the solar system will not be generating any power. The EV charging is usually 1/2 of my power consumption, averaging over 300kWh/month, so I will probably pay twice the "average" solar user because of this fee! Now I'm pi$$ed again...it's EV discrimination! :evil:

TT

If I read it correctly it will only apply to new NEM agreements, so if you already have solar it doesn't apply. Even if you don't there is still time to get in under the NEM1 rules.

I think this is correct, so personally (6 years into our 20 year grandfathering window for NEM), by the time we have to pay for gross grid power, we will hopefully be retired and can probably shift much of our charging to align with our PV generation, minimizing that hit. But it is a drag for future solar/EV users who will have gross grid power consumption at night. The impact may be relatively small though, if the person is not an overproducer, as the overall effect of TOU combined with the production/consumption pattern might (favorably) far outweigh the gross grid consumption surcharge.

 

[ttweed]

If I read it correctly it will only apply to new NEM agreements, so if you already have solar it doesn't apply. Even if you don't there is still time to get in under the NEM1 rules.

So this is only for the ver.2 NEM rules to go into effect later, after the utility has exceeded their 5% cap or July 2017? That makes me feel better if so, as our system looks like it will be installed at the end of Feb., and I'm hopeful we will qualify for NEM1 grandfathering (last estimate I heard is that SDG&E will meet their customer cap by mid-late 2016).

Thx,
TT

 

[Valdemar]

If I read it correctly it will only apply to new NEM agreements, so if you already have solar it doesn't apply. Even if you don't there is still time to get in under the NEM1 rules.

So this is only for the ver.2 NEM rules to go into effect later, after the utility has exceeded their 5% cap or July 2017? That makes me feel better if so, as our system looks like it will be installed at the end of Feb., and I'm hopeful we will qualify for NEM1 grandfathering (last estimate I heard is that SDG&E will meet their customer cap by mid-late 2016).

Thx,
TT

Yes, sounds like you still have time. Still it could have been much worse if the utility companies got what they wanted.

 

[davewill]

EV customers will likely be affected the most by the non-bypassable charges of 2/3c per kWh.

It also really sucks for the people who have small systems. They are still paying regular rates for most of their electricity, plus this extra per kWh charge on everything they use just because they generate a little bit.

 

[RegGuheert]

In addition, rooftop solar customers would pay a fee of 2 cents to 3 cents per kilowatt-hour for electricity used from the utility companies, no matter how much power their solar systems generate.

I took that sentence to mean that the homeowner had a "floor" for the cost of electricity they consumed from the utility of either 2 or 3 cents per kWh. In other words, if the nighttime rate is $0.06/kWh, the homeowner will pay $0.06/kWh if they do not have the kWh covered by their production OR they will pay $0.03/kWh if they do (instead of $0.00/kWh today).

But davewill reads this as an additional fee on TOP of the normal rate. In that case, the homeowner would pay $0.09/kWh if they do not have the kWh covered or $0.03/kWh if they do.

If the latter is what is intended, then I agree it is a very unfair proposal.

 

[DaveEV]

Here's some news I ran across - SDG&E has proposed to drastically change the TOU time periods - I suspect due to the increase in solar the last few years:

NOTIFICATION OF SAN DIEGO GAS & ELECTRIC COMPANY’S REQUEST TO CHANGE RATES FOR THE GENERAL RATE CASE PHASE 2 APPLICATION FILING A.15-04-012

CURRENT PERIODS*
                         Weekdays                    Weekends/Holidays
Summer:
On-Peak                11am to 6pm                          N/A
Semi-Peak       6am to 11am and 6pm to 10pm                 N/A
Off-Peak               10pm to 6am                          All
Winter:
On-Peak                 5pm to 8pm                          N/A
Semi-Peak        6am to 5pm and 8pm to 10pm                 N/A
Off-Peak               10pm to 6am                          All
* Represents SDG&E’s current standard TOU time periods.
Various optional rates have different TOU time periods than the standard.

PROPOSED PERIODS
                         Weekdays                    Weekends/Holidays
Year Round:
On-Peak                 4pm to 9pm                      4pm to 9pm
Off-Peak        6am to 4pm and 9pm to 12am       2pm to 4pm and 9pm to 12am
Super Off-Peak           12am to 6am                   12am to 2pm

It's not clear to me how the various other TOU rates (EV / SES) will change their TOU periods, but I have to assume it will be similar to the proposed period.

These proposed TOU periods will absolutely kill the benefits of the current TOU rates solar users enjoy on either EV-TOU or DR-SES, especially on weekends and holidays. With a mandatory shift to TOU rates, this is going to kill Net Metering without actually doing so explicitly by shifting the bulk of solar production hours onto off-peak or super-off-peak pricing rates while on-peak rates are nearly entirely outside of solar production hours.

I don't see how this is legal as anyone who installs a system under the current rate plans will have their economic assumptions of reasonable pay-back periods on their investment turned completely upside down, very similar to how Nevada solar owners just had Net Metering ripped out from under them.

This TOU rates will make battery storage system manufacturers and installers very happy, though.

MODERATORS NOTE: Moved this post from San Diego LEAF fanatics.

 

[DaveEV]

California Votes to Retain System That Pays Solar Users Retail Rate for Excess Power

Key points for NEM 2.0 customers:

• A one time interconnection fee of $75-150 will be applied.
• Fees of a "few cents" / kWh will be paid that goes towards programs that fund low-income and energy efficiency programs.
• TOU rates will be applied - perhaps like the ones that SDG&E has proposed that I mentioned above? (I moved that post from San Diego LEAF Fanatics here where it fits better).

This is a decent compromise overall, but the TOU rate structure will really determine how bad it might be.

 

[Valdemar]

Here's some news I ran across - SDG&E has proposed to drastically change the TOU time periods - I suspect due to the increase in solar the last few years:

Wow, I'm with SCE but I suspect it won't be long until they do something similar. Current SCE on-peak 2-8pm looks fantastic compared to this.

 

[tbleakne]

California Votes to Retain System That Pays Solar Users Retail Rate for Excess Power

Key points for NEM 2.0 customers:

• A one time interconnection fee of $75-150 will be applied.
• Fees of a "few cents" / kWh will be paid that goes towards programs that fund low-income and energy efficiency programs.
• TOU rates will be applied - perhaps like the ones that SDG&E has proposed that I mentioned above? (I moved that post from San Diego LEAF Fanatics here where it fits better).

This is a decent compromise overall, but the TOU rate structure will really determine how bad it might be.

My understanding is that the fee of a "few cents"/kWh will be deducted from the retail credit price of the relevant TOU period for any net export to the grid over the time resolution of the TOU metering, which is 15 min. For example, if your system exported 1 kWh while your A/C cycled off for .5 hour, and then imported 1 kWh when the A/C cycled back on, that exchange would cost you "several cents."

Other interpretations are definitely possible.

 

[RegGuheert]

My understanding is that the fee of a "few cents"/kWh will be deducted from the retail credit price of the relevant TOU period for any net export to the grid over the time resolution of the TOU metering, which is 15 min. For example, if your system exported 1 kWh while your A/C cycled off for .5 hour, and then imported 1 kWh when the A/C cycled back on, that exchange would cost you "several cents."

O.K., if I read that correctly, that would cost a FORTUNE. I suspect it would be cheaper to disconnect the PV and therefore ensure that the power only flowed into the house.

Other interpretations are definitely possible.

Let's hope so, but I wouldn't put it past the utilities.

 

[Valdemar]

I also think they will bill for the physical energy used from the grid, not "net" (import - export) energy. Battery energy storage for solar in CA will probably start making more sense now. Good timing for Tesla PowerWall and the like.

 

[DaveEV]

My understanding is that the fee of a "few cents"/kWh will be deducted from the retail credit price of the relevant TOU period for any net export to the grid over the time resolution of the TOU metering, which is 15 min. For example, if your system exported 1 kWh while your A/C cycled off for .5 hour, and then imported 1 kWh when the A/C cycled back on, that exchange would cost you "several cents."

Let's assume that the grid "storage" fee is 2c / kWh, we're looking at 1 hour of time, your A/C cycles on 4 times drawing 0.5 kWh from the grid every 15 minutes and your solar exports the same for a net zero consumption.

So your gross export is 2 kWh and your gross import is 2 kWh. Your grid storage fee would be 2 kWh * 2, or $0.04. I don't see how they could bill you at any rate different than that if they are billing by the kWh, no matter what the billing granularity is as the meter has the ability to measure energy in/out at a much higher frequency than 15 minutes.

If you're suggesting that the actual grid storage fee would be 0.5 kWh * 4 15 minute intervals * $0.02 / kWh, well, you still get the same answer.

O.K., if I read that correctly, that would cost a FORTUNE. I suspect it would be cheaper to disconnect the PV and therefore ensure that the power only flowed into the house.

Other interpretations are definitely possible.

Let's hope so, but I wouldn't put it past the utilities.

If any of that were true, solar proponents would NOT have been happy about the terms and SolarCity would not have had it's stock price jump so much.

I also think they will bill for the physical energy used from the grid, not "net" (import - export) energy. Battery energy storage for solar in CA will probably start making more sense now. Good timing for Tesla PowerWall and the like.

That's exactly what's going to happen. Though at a "few cents" per kWh it doesn't shift the economics for storage all that much. Certainly not as much as the mandatory TOU time period change which puts peak hours well into the evening and past sun-down. Now THAT will certainly encourage grid storage.

Of course, all the grid-aggregation pilots which merge the wholesale/retail markets also show some promise of giving end-users power to pull back some of these rate increases. I've made $73 the past year participating with Ohmconnect with very little effort on my part. With grid-storage and the right connectivity, it would take no effort and the rewards would be much greater. It wouldn't even take much storage - 2 kWh and a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough looking at my performance.

 

[ybitz]

Looks like still another month or so before the 5% solar cap is reached and new solar customers forced onto NEM 2.0. I'm looking more seriously into solar, as my monthly bill has increased due to the second meter EV rate increase several years ago, and the recent tier changes (4 tiers to 2). I've been doing various calculations and still uncertain whether solar makes sense for me. My situation:

- On average, use 660 KWH/month (360 KWH house, 300 KWH for Leaf).
- $120 total for the two electric meters.
- House on regular DR rate, Leaf on EV-TOU second meter
- House in a sunny area
- I've gotten a quote for a 4KW system for about $15k after 30% federal rebate.

With all the recent changes and uncertain regarding NEM 2.0 TOU, if you were me, would you get solar?