SPX 32A L2 Plug-In, All-Voltage EVSE

[Spies]

but at that point I don't see much difference in going from 30A to 32A, just splitting hairs IMHO.

I know I am a little late responding to this but as I recall when the Yazaki plug and socket were submitted for UL certification at 32A it failed but passed when dialed back to 30A. Perhaps this is not the complete story but either way UL certified it at 30A not 32A.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Yazaki plug that was built to the new SAE J1772 plug standard successfully completed certification at UL. It is only certified to 30A although the standard is written to 80A.

 

[ss0808]

Has anyone unplugged their SPx and transported it. At least once a mos, we go to the parents house. They have a dryer outlet that would work. Is it feasible? I'm choosing between the Schneider and the spx. I read somewhere that people could transport the Schneider. If neither work, then maybe he ge watt station for me. By the way the evse is for the BMW active e. this forum has the most information about evse. The bmw has a 6.6 kw battery

 

[brent]

all this discussion about 30 vs 32 amp and cable sizing may really mean nothing.

If I understand the system correctly, when plugged in the car charger does a handshake with the EVSE and the EVSe tells the charger
what it is connected to. If Schnieder and others tell the car charger 30 amps, then it won't matter if the breaker is 40, 50 or 100 amps
or the cable is 8 guage or 10 guage, the car will only suck 30 amps.

BUT, without knowing the protocol in the car's charger, it may only have steps that match the breaker rating ( 80% of which becomes the load ) So I think without knowing that, or until someone puts an ampmeter on one, we may find that the 30 amp units drop back to
24 amps, and nobody get 30 or 32. Has anyone tried to measure the real current draw on a 30 amp system ????

 

[JouleThief]

Has anyone unplugged their SPx and transported it. At least once a mos, we go to the parents house. They have a dryer outlet that would work. Is it feasible? I'm choosing between the Schneider and the spx. I read somewhere that people could transport the Schneider. If neither work, then maybe he ge watt station for me. By the way the evse is for the BMW active e. this forum has the most information about evse. The bmw has a 6.6 kw battery

Yes, I transport my SPX Power Xpress everyday as I use it to charge at work. My employer has a NEMA L6-30 240V outlet and I converted a dryer socket in my garage also to an L6-30. The SPX is not as convenient to transport as the Upgraded Panasonic Leaf EVSE which is much lighter. The SPX is bulky and weighs about 14lbs, but I still think it would be better than the Schnieder or GE EVSE for transportation. To help with this, I installed a 6ft plug instead of the 1ft that comes standard so that the cord is never bearing the weight of the EVSE.

You can refer to some of my earlier posts in this thread (pg 24?) and also go here for details of my install and pics:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?9599-Low-Cost-DIY-SPX-L2-EVSE-Plug-In-Install-quot-Sharing-Dryer-Outlet-quot-Instructions-amp-Pics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since you'll have a 6.6kWh charger on the BMW, it's worth the faster charge you'll get from the SPX, otherwise I'd just recommend the EVSE Upgrade.

-JT

 

[JouleThief]

all this discussion about 30 vs 32 amp and cable sizing may really mean nothing.

If I understand the system correctly, when plugged in the car charger does a handshake with the EVSE and the EVSe tells the charger
what it is connected to. If Schnieder and others tell the car charger 30 amps, then it won't matter if the breaker is 40, 50 or 100 amps
or the cable is 8 guage or 10 guage, the car will only suck 30 amps.

BUT, without knowing the protocol in the car's charger, it may only have steps that match the breaker rating ( 80% of which becomes the load ) So I think without knowing that, or until someone puts an ampmeter on one, we may find that the 30 amp units drop back to
24 amps, and nobody get 30 or 32. Has anyone tried to measure the real current draw on a 30 amp system ????

During the J1772 handshake the EVSE tells the car charger the max current it can support, then the car chooses how much to draw, not to exceed the max the EVSE can support. So if the EVSE says 32A and the car charger can draw that much it will. The 6.6kWh chargers can pull 27.5A on 240V single phase so in this case it wouldn't matter if you had a 30A or 32A EVSE. But if your EVSE were connected to a 208V 3-phase power supply it could draw the full 30 or 32A.

In theory as long as everything worked correctly you would never exceed the breaker threshold. The breaker is there in case something fails and there is too much current draw. But the concern that's been discussed is if you are pulling 32A continuously would that be okay on the 10awg cable and 30A Rema J1772 connector that comes standard with the Power Xpress? Most of us don't have to worry about this right now with 3.3kWh chargers (or even 6.6 chargers on 240 single phase). As others have said in reality it would probably be okay to do and you would want to check for excessive heat. But it's a risk decision and the official answer is still that you would need to upgrade the cable and connector to use the 32A setting. That's just CYA for SPX to protect them from liability. Just like the fact that you're only supposed to use plug and cord connection for indoor use only and have to use hardwire for outdoor use, all safety precautions from NEC.

 

[ss0808]

You can refer to some of my earlier posts in this thread (pg 24?) and also go here for details of my install and pics:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?9599-Low-Cost-DIY-SPX-L2-EVSE-Plug-In-Install-quot-Sharing-Dryer-Outlet-quot-Instructions-amp-Pics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since you'll have a 6.6kWh charger on the BMW, it's worth the faster charge you'll get from the SPX, otherwise I'd just recommend the EVSE Upgrade.

-JT[/quote]


Thanks for the reply joulethief. Can you clarify the upgrades that are needed? On your link, you describe that in order to future proof your evse and utilize the 32 amp, it is necessary to upgrade the input and output wires. I am assuming since my battery is 6.6 kw, I will need to do these upgrades?

Secondly, my in laws have a Nema 14-30r outlet. Should I switch their outlet to nema 6-30 or should I install 14-30 at my house and change the plug on the spx evse

 

[garygid]

Or, make an adapter (or a set of adapters) to fit something like an L6-30P on your EVSE to allow plugging into 14-30R (new dryer), 14-50R (RV parks), 10-30R (old dryer), or even 120v sources like 5-15 and 5-20 if your EVSE is "dual-voltage" capable.

 

[ss0808]

Or, make an adapter (or a set of adapters) to fit something like an L6-30P on your EVSE to allow plugging into 14-30R (new dryer), 14-50R (RV parks), 10-30R (old dryer), or even 120v sources like 5-15 and 5-20 if your EVSE is "dual-voltage" capable.

Will I still need to upgrade the input and output connectors? I think the wires are 10 gauge but for the 6.6 kw battery, I need 8 gauge?

 

[garygid]

The SPX wires and J1772 are rated for 30 amps, or only 24 amps?

 

[ss0808]

The SPX wires and J1772 are rated for 30 amps, or only 24 amps?

The earlier post linked to a chevy volt site where the amperage was discussed. From my very little understanding, since the industry standard is 24 amp, the wiring is 10 gauge to allow for 24 amp. The link discussed possibly needing 8 gauge wire for the 30 amp

 

[JouleThief]

Thanks for the reply joulethief. Can you clarify the upgrades that are needed? On your link, you describe that in order to future proof your evse and utilize the 32 amp, it is necessary to upgrade the input and output wires. I am assuming since my battery is 6.6 kw, I will need to do these upgrades?

Secondly, my in laws have a Nema 14-30r outlet. Should I switch their outlet to nema 6-30 or should I install 14-30 at my house and change the plug on the spx evse

Well unfortunately I think the upgrade would be rather costly if you decided to do it. First you would need to get a J1772 cable with 8-3AWG wire and also the pilot signal comm wire. This isn't a standard cable you can buy at your local home depot, my guess is you could probably have a 20' cable made for maybe $200. Then you'd need to source a J1772 connector rated to handle 32A. I believe there are currently only 2 versions, a 30A (which comes standard on the Power Xpress) or a 70A. Last I checked the cheapest J1772 connector I could find was $200 and it was only rated to 30A. Then you would need to assemble this hardware or pay someone to do it for you. All said and done I'd expect this to run you $400-$600. It's safe to say NO ONE has actually done this yet, so you would be doing some trail blazing here. You could also call SPX and ask for their help and recommendations but I wouldn't count on much support from them.

The good news is I don't think it's really necessary in you're case. As I mentioned, a 6.6kWh charger on a 240V line will only draw 27.5A (6.6kWh = 6600W / 240V = 27.5A). So if I were you, I would get the Power Xpress, set it to 32A, and not worry about it since your car won't pull more than 27.5A anyway. This will just allow the Power Xpress to deliver the max charge your car can take. And if you're planning to plug into dryer outlets, they will have a 30A breaker anyway so if for any reason you ever did pull more than 30A, the breaker would simply trip. If you ever find it to become an issue, just dial the Power Xpress back to 24A, which wouldn't be much slower than 27.5 anyway (5.76kWh).

As for the plug, I agree with Gary. I would go with a locking connector like the L6-30, then make a few adapters to 14-30, 10-30, and 5-15. This will allow you to use the Power Xpress in a variety of situations, but I wouldn't make 14-30 your standard. When I was researching my setup, I found a few sources stating that the dryer outlets aren't as robust and not designed for repeated plugging/unplugging.

Hope this helped.

Oh yeah, and don't mess with your In Law's outlet - leave it alone lol! Aside from the fact that it's a major code violation to convert a 4-prong outlet such as 14-30 to a 3-prong such as 6-30, this is also a standard for all dryers to use. I'm sure if your in-laws ever replaced their dryer or moved to another house, they wouldn't appreciate having to change the plug or receptacle ;-). And whatever you do, always tell the wife that you know EXACTLY what you are doing - haha.

 

[ss0808]

Ok, I'm ordering the spx unit today. I'm actually thinking about doing the installation myself :? with a little help. The installation looks pretty easy with installing two 20 amp breakers, running 8 gauge wires and installing 6-30 outlet. I'm spending all my time now reading about installation.

 

[smkettner]

installation looks pretty easy with installing two 20 amp breakers, running 8 gauge wires and installing 6-30 outlet.

Should be a double breaker not two separate. You only need #12 wire with 20 amp breaker. 6-30 outlet needs 30a breaker to meet code but will work fine.

 

[garygid]

Typical, easily available 240v cable has 2 hot, Neutral, and Ground (4 wires).
The car needs only 2 Hot, Ground, and CP (4 wires).

However, finding good outdoor rated, crush-proof, flexible, stranded (not solid) conductors, etc. might be more difficult?

Maybe standard, heavy duty, 240v (including Neutral and Ground), round extension cord (used in construction) would be suitable?

 

[wwhitney]

Should be a double breaker not two separate. You only need #12 wire with 20 amp breaker.

Correct.

6-30 outlet needs 30a breaker to meet code but will work fine.

Incorrect. If you have a circuit with just a single receptacle on it, the only requirement is that the receptacle be rated not less than the breaker. So a 30 amp single receptacle on a dedicated 20 amp breaker is fine.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[smkettner]

6-30 outlet needs 30a breaker to meet code but will work fine.

Incorrect. If you have a circuit with just a single receptacle on it, the only requirement is that the receptacle be rated not less than the breaker. So a 30 amp single receptacle on a dedicated 20 amp breaker is fine.

Cheers, Wayne

I don't have a code book nor can I cite the number. However I have been shown that 50a outlets need to be on 40 or 50a breakers and 30a outlet needs to be on 30a breaker to conform to NEC. For instance a 30 amp dryer outlet must be on a 30a breaker to get a sign off. Safety is not the issue but expected usability of the consumer.

On edit:

Review table 210.21(B)(3)

http://ftp.resource.org/bsc.ca.gov/title24_part03_dice/title24_part03_page0106.pdf

 

[davewill]

I don't have a code book nor can I cite the number. However I have been shown that 50a outlets need to be on 40 or 50a breakers and 30a outlet needs to be on 30a breaker to conform to NEC. For instance a 30 amp dryer outlet must be on a 30a breaker to get a sign off. Safety is not the issue but expected usability of the consumer.

On edit:

Review table 210.21(B)(3)

http://ftp.resource.org/bsc.ca.gov/title24_part03_dice/title24_part03_page0106.pdf

Your posted link seems to confirm what Wayne said.

A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit
shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch
circuit.

The table that says what you said specifically says it's for a circuit with two or more receptacles.

 

[smkettner]

Read it again.

20a breaker = 15/20 amp outlets are allowed. (note NO 30a or 50a outlet listed says not allowed to me)

Only option for 30a outlet appears to be 30a breaker.

 

[davewill]

Read it again.

20a breaker = 15/20 amp outlets are allowed. (note NO 30a or 50a outlet listed says not allowed to me)

Only option for 30a outlet appears to be 30a breaker.

I did. You're reading the table, but not the text that explains it.

Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3)...

 

[JouleThief]

Ok, I'm ordering the spx unit today. I'm actually thinking about doing the installation myself :? with a little help. The installation looks pretty easy with installing two 20 amp breakers, running 8 gauge wires and installing 6-30 outlet. I'm spending all my time now reading about installation.

Great, best of luck to you. As others said, you don't want to use two 20A breakers, you should use either a 30 or 40A breaker depending on what you set the amperage dial to on your Power Xpress. I would advise you to stick with the installation instructions that come with the SPX, page 10 if I remember. You can download the SPX install manual from their website, someone also posted page 10 earlier in this thread or you can also see it in my DIY install PDF file from the GM-Volt link I posted before.

Basically, if you're going to use the 24A setting, you would use 10awg wire and a 6-30 receptacle with 30A breaker. For the 32A setting you're supposed to use 8awg wire and a 6-50 receptacle with a 40A breaker. Now in your case, you're planning to use a 6-30 outlet on the 32A setting which is technically a no no, but again since you'll only really be pulling 27.5A I think this is fine IMO. But you may want to use a 30A breaker then instead of 40A since now you will have several components in your setup that are only rated to 30A including the receptacle (unless you opt for a 6-50 instead), the 10awg J1772 cable, and Rema J1772 connector.

Also note there is a difference between a 6-30 and locking L6-30. The 12 inch plug that ships with the Power Xpress is a 6-30 (non-locking). I used an L6-30 twist lock which helps prevent accidental unplugging.

While doing your research, if you download the 2 PDF files from the GM-Volt link, I put a few links in those files that I found very helpful when researching my own install. Also, if you go to my user profile in the Volt forum, under my albums I have NEC article 625 which specifically petains to EVSE installations. I would highly encourage to read that along with the links I mentioned. Feel free to PM me if I can help with any specific questions or continue to post here for the benefit of the forum.