Status of Blink EVSE's at the Lodge at Torrey Pines

[davewill]

Davewill: I haven't met you; but I'll bet you are a very nice person.

Aw, shucks! It warn't nuthin'. Actually we did meet, DerKraut, in the Best Buy parking lot a day or two before you got your car. You were pretty anxious that day, worrying about the rebate as I recall.

I kinda felt bad 'cause I was really encouraged JPVLeaf to rely on the Lodge, assuring her that no Blink card was needed, only to have Blink pull the rug out from under her.

Tip for you "northerners." The uphill grade on N. Torrey Pines Road should be avoided. IMO You are better off continuing on I-5 to Genesse Ave, taking a right on North Torrey Pines Road to the Lodge.
BTW I went down the grade once and made it to #1 in the US for regen that day.

It's the same elevation change either way, I'd be surprised if it made any real difference. Besides, it's a glorious drive there right by the water.

 

[jcesare]

It's the same elevation change either way, I'd be surprised if it made any real difference. Besides, it's a glorious drive there right by the water.

The difference is the grade and the momentum you already have on I-5.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Ok, except the chart has little correlation with the GOM, or the "---".

Yes, understood. It was more of a side comment of sorts. During the drive, I held a very consistent speed (62-63 mph) during the trip. I also noted miles driven with the disappearance of each bar (range chart, ver 4). In addition, just for the sake of noting additional data, I also noted time to charge (@240v and 120v). And, albeit limited in meaning, the miles driven and the GOM. Short of having a SOC-meter, this was all I had. I watched how the total of miles driven + GOM would converge on 76-80-ish (vs the 81 @ 60 mph), but vary by +/- 5 mi. dependent on where I was WRT the hills. This held until my exit from the 5 at Del Mar Hts. After that point in my drive, I agree, the GOM is aptly named and is unreliable and possibly missleading at best.

So, 71.6 total for your trip. It seems that you may have had 10 miles left, and perhaps as much as about 15 miles. The important next parameter after the fuel bars is the battery warnings.

67.3 mi., When I exited and turned onto Del Mar Hts, I still had 1 red bar.
69.9 mi., Near bottom of 'mega hill'.
7x.x mi., Loss last red bar during climb of hill @ 40-45 mph.
71.4 mi., Approx. top of hill, 35-40 mph.
71.6 mi., "Low battery" warning.
71.8 mi., Arrival at LTP parking structure.
71.9 mi., "Very low battery" warning(s).
72.0 mi., "---"

Did you get "Low Battery" warning? If so, how far did you go on that?

Did you also get "Very Low" battery warning, about 6-10 miles after the Low Batt warning? If so, how far did you drive on that?

The "low battery" warning, "very low battery" warning and "---" came in very quick succession. It was a lot to take in. The surprise of seeing the hill in front of me, and take notes while driving, all the while this being my first experience beyond the last red bar and hearing the 'ladies' voice talking in my ear. However, given all of that, I did make it to my destination with what I'm sure were miles to spare knowing the way the car anticipates range based on recent driving history. My drive up the 'mega hill' had an effect on the car's algorithm for estimating remaining range thereby accelerating (no pun intended) the start of the 'low battery' warnings. There was no corresponding downhill or flat driving to balance it out, so to speak. I agree, in hindsight, there could have been at least 10 mi. range (depending on driving speed) in part because my charge time ended up being only 15.5 hrs @ 120v (dash indicated 18 hr @ 120v, or 6:30 @ 240v).

So, despite the car going into the low-battery mode(s), I don't have so much an issue with thinking the car's battery was actually nearly depleted. After all, I reached my destination. My main issue at that point was now that I was there, I couldn't get a charge .... Given what happened the last 2-1/2 miles of the trip, all I wanted to do was get plugged in so she could get juiced. And, therein lies my original question regarding the Blinks at this location.

(I'll post my latest info from Blink in a separate post.)

 

[JPVLeaf]

It's the same elevation change either way, I'd be surprised if it made any real difference. Besides, it's a glorious drive there right by the water.

The difference is the grade and the momentum you already have on I-5.

+1. If and when I do a return trip, I will use the Genesee exit and approach the lodge from the south.

However, if you have plenty of charge, take it from the north and enjoy the beach scenery and the climb. The hill climb is actually fun so long as you have enough juice.

 

[JPVLeaf]

OK, I made a little trip over to the Lodge to check out the Blinks (just for you z0ner ). The software has been changed, and they added the logo for where to tap a Blink card to activate. The software isn't the same as that on the Balboa Park units. It wants you to plug in first rather than tap your card first...in fact the screen never does ask you to tap your card. Tapping the card first didn't work, although it would accept the card and seem to authenticate, the charge wouldn't start when I plugged in. Plugging in, then tapping worked...I tried and succeeded with both the upstairs units. The downstairs unit was ICEd, but the screen looked the same.

I spoke with a Blink representative on Tuesday. In a nutshell, these are still residential units whose software was ‘recently’ updated for ‘private’ use. Therefore, an RFID card is required. According to the rep, they appear ‘offline’ on the Blink map simply because they are non-networked. Also as a result, he has limited ability to query the unit for type and/or status and/or usage. Therefore, some of his info was by inference or speculation.

So, the information from the staff that a card is now required was correct. Though this is similar to the ‘commercial units’, the procedure is slightly different, as confirmed by davewill. So, davewill, thanks for going back to check these out. It’s all beginning to make more sense now, in a round about way.

Also, on the Blink map, these units are labelled as for 'Evans Hotels'. They are the management co. for the Lodge at TP. Address is the same.

 

[garygid]

Getting only 0.3 miles between LBW and VLBW (after you got up the hill) is a VERY short distance is part of the "usable-energy-not-all-there" problem.

Raw SOC about 45 triggers the LBW, and about 25 triggers the VLBW. So, 45 -25=20 SOC "raw" points (about 7% of SOC).

Why did your LEAF's low-end SOC disappear so quickly?

Until we understand that better, one really should not rely/plan on using the "hidden reserve".

 

[lonndoggie]

It's the same elevation change either way, I'd be surprised if it made any real difference. Besides, it's a glorious drive there right by the water.

The difference is the grade and the momentum you already have on I-5.

+1. If and when I do a return trip, I will use the Genesee exit and approach the lodge from the south.

However, if you have plenty of charge, take it from the north and enjoy the beach scenery and the climb. The hill climb is actually fun so long as you have enough juice.

I'm not sure the Genessee route would be any better, maybe worse. Any momentum on I-5 has been burned up in the first 100 yards or so, but that hill from the bottom of Carmel Valley Road to the offramp at Genesee is pretty long--3.4 miles, per Google maps. You also get a head-start at the Torrey Pines hill...but momentum is burned off even quicker there, due to the steeper slope, but it's only about 1.3 miles. The overall route is 2.1 miles longer using Genessee. Plus, once you get off at Genesee, you make a big drop down (nice regen there), but then you have to climb back up, and even higher than where you started.

An interesting experiment to try out, for sure. Also, the mental exercise of trying to find the least hilly (or most downhilly) route from point A to point B in San Diego is an important one with an EV. San Diego would be the perfect place to have an EV...if it was flat.

 

[garygid]

So,
1. Blink is always plug-then-tap (or swipe) for L2?

2. ChargePoint is tap-then-plug for 120v (L1),
but plug-then-tap for 240v (L2)?

 

[JPVLeaf]

Getting only 0.3 miles between LBW and VLBW (after you got up the hill) is a VERY short distance is part of the "usable-energy-not-all-there" problem.

Raw SOC about 45 triggers the LBW, and about 25 triggers the VLBW. So, 45 -25=20 SOC "raw" points (about 7% of SOC).

Why did your LEAF's low-end SOC disappear so quickly?

Until we understand that better, one really should not rely/plan on using the "hidden reserve".

Good questions. For me, these are me last remaining questions regarding this trip.

Of those that have gone to 'very low battery' and 'turtle' mode, have any done so with a big energy drain at the very end? Maybe the one that went to Yosemite? But, even those that were going uphill, you couldn't have just cruised up hill. Usually, as folks reach low battery warnings, they start to reduce the motor load. In my case, I had a surge at the end. What affect, if any, did this have on the rapid succession of warnings towards the end of my mileage (i.e., end of my trip, not to imply that I had no 'miles' remaining in my battery).

I would be nice to see someone try to simulate my situation but with SOC readings as well.

Perhaps, tbleakne's spreadsheet with estimated power usage at varying grades would also be helpful. On the 'mega hill', you climb from sea level to about 450 ft. elev. in 1.25-1.5 mi. I was driving it at ~40 mph avg.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Why did your LEAF's low-end SOC disappear so quickly?

Until we understand that better, one really should not rely/plan on using the "hidden reserve".

And, another big one for me now: When someone asks "Can I do xx miles at xx mph on a single charge?" One could be doing a disservice if they don't also ask about the elevation change btw pts A and B (and C ...) .

And, beyond that, do you feel comfortable going into the red bars, will there be a headwind/tailwind, what tire pressure are you running ... do you have a trunk load of (manure), etc., ....

 

[garygid]

With the New-Bars (which all Upgraded and later-delivery LEAFs have), the red bars are quite reasonable to use, it appears, but beyond that seems rather uncertain.

J,
What charging routine(s) do you use?

 

[wsbca]

67.3 mi., When I exited and turned onto Del Mar Hts, I still had 1 red bar.
69.9 mi., Near bottom of 'mega hill'.

We may be verging on some dead horse beating here - but taking Del Mar Heights probably cost you some non-trivial range (in the context of barely making it to the lodge) - you went up and down a good 100 feet of vertical that would not have been involved had you exited at Carmel Valley Road and taken it over to the coast, mostly dead flat. Yes, there's a climb up to the final left turn onto the coast highway, but going over the top on DMH is significantly higher, and you'd have had easy going all the way down to the CVR exit, vs. giving away a lot of energy negotiating the DMH exit and heading up and over.

FWIW I agree that going all the way to Genessee is not necessarily going to use less energy, for the reasons others have stated - the drag up from Sorrento Valley to the exit, and then Genessee itself is steeper from 5 (after a short drop) up to Torrey Pines road than the main TP grade itself...plus the overall route is a mile longer.

 

[DaveEV]

If you're getting close on range, while heading south to Torrey Pines Lodge, I highly suggest taking getting off early and taking the coast highway as some others have suggested.

At 60 mph on the highway you'll get ~4mi / kWh - it's not hard to get over at least 4.5 mi / kWh on surface streets and a lot of PCH you can easily cruise between 30-45 mph and get 5 mi / kWh or higher.

Suggested exits to PCH:
Oceanside Harbor
Cannon Rd
Palomar Airport Rd
Poinsettia
La Costa
Encinitas Blvd
Via de la Valle

Del Mar Heights is less than optimal because of the climb/descent - steep hill going down to PCH where you'll be hard pressed to avoid using much friction brakes.
Carmel Valley has you backtracking a bit - but it is pretty flat until you get near PCH - but by this time you've already gone up/down a good sized hill past Del Mar Heights.

As wsbca mentioned, Genesee has a decent hill all of it's own - plus it adds 2.1 miles to the trip according to Google Maps compared to getting off at Via de la Valle.

If you hop on PCH all the way in Oceanside (76 / Oceanside Harbor exit) you can shave 4 miles off the trip (according to Google Maps).

 

[lonndoggie]

If you hop on PCH all the way in Oceanside (76 / Oceanside Harbor exit) you can shave 4 miles off the trip (according to Google Maps).

Besides the overall lower speed, PCH is remarkably flat for SD county. A few small hills, but minor compared to some of the ups and downs I-5 goes through.

 

[davewill]

Besides that drive on PCH from Oceanside/Carlsbad on down is worthwhile just for the drive itself. I often use it rather than I-5.

 

[lonndoggie]

Besides that drive on PCH from Oceanside/Carlsbad on down is worthwhile just for the drive itself. I often use it rather than I-5.

+1, emphatically!

It's also my daily morning commute, from E Street in Encinitas to 4th Street/Del Mar Heights in Del Mar (that hill is killer, btw).

Going home, I use the freeway, because PCH north at that time takes for-freeping-ever; in the morning, it takes just a little longer than using the freeway.

 

[JPVLeaf]

J,
What charging routine(s) do you use?

100%, M-F, 60-65 mi per day
80% or as needed on wkends

 

[JPVLeaf]

We may be verging on some dead horse beating here - ....

+1

I think there are great suggestions for alternate routes, especially the PCH from Oceanside ....

But, unless you're 'really' running on fumes, go with whichever ... so long as you reach your destination. The rest is likely splitting hairs ....

 

[TonyWilliams]

I watched how the total of miles driven + GOM would converge on 76-80-ish (vs the 81 @ 60 mph), but vary by +/- 5 mi.

Did you get "Low Battery" warning? If so, how far did you go on that? Did you also get "Very Low" battery warning, about 6-10 miles after the Low Batt warning? If so, how far did you drive on that?

The "low battery" warning, "very low battery" warning and "---" came in very quick succession. It was a lot to take in.

Honestly, the more we learn, the more we seem to not know. It doesn't make sense that the two warning came up so quickly, even with the hill. Yes, the SOC meter probably would have cleared this up.

I'm sure you know that my 81 mile range at 60 is an educated projection. It can vary +/- a few miles based on many factors outside of a level highway.

Also, when you see the chart, and see what a big hit on range there is at 70, and what a boost there is at 50, you can understand that the speed is really quite critical to hit the speed to get the estimated range. There is a 13 mile range difference between 60 mph and 70 mph, and 15 mile increase at 50.

In my 140 mile trip last Friday up to OC, I kept the speed at exactly 60 mph, and came very close to the estimates.

Just a heads up... it looks like 38 mph is not even CLOSE to the best speed for long range. It might be half that !!! Further updates to follow.

 

[jcesare]

Going home, I use the freeway, because PCH north at that time takes for-freeping-ever; in the morning, it takes just a little longer than using the freeway.

Have you tried El Camino Real from Del Mar Heights Rd to Enicintas Blvd?
Great drive, little traffic, and it avoids all those large hills on I-5.